The false economy of in home LED lighting

It’s not the LED that “poops out”. It’s the circuit. I’d be highly suspicious of anyone telling me to expect 50,000 hours out of ANY light bulb. I don’t know what cfl’s everybody that has trouble is buying, but I don’t recall one EVER burning out after several years. I’ve broken a few though.

Same here. I have been using CFLs for over 5 years and have never had one quit. I have one in a bedroom lamp that has about a 1 second delay at turn on, but it has done that for 3 years now. I guess it may be on it’s way to quitting.

I’ve only broken one and that was while cleaning a ceiling fan.

Received this just today:

I see my photo got cutoff. First row = lumens, 2nd=watts used, 3rd=life expectancy, 4th=cost to operate per year, 5th=savings over 25,000 hrs use.

So based on this chart, why buy the LED?

-Garry

Another reason not to buy the LED. If it lasts 23 years, WHO CARES. It will be obsolete LONG before then. My strategy in buying high tech is to buy behind the “bleeding edge” curve (leading edge, but you bleed money) and update fairly often. Never invest so heavily in a technology, or product, that you wouldn’t be willing to throw it out and start over. I can’t tell you how often I will see someone buy a computer, or TV or whatever and spend 2-3 times more than they have too for “quality or features” thinking that they can then postpone their next purchase. Very poor investment.

i say just keep a few of these in the house :bigsmile:

I went big for CFLs a long time ago, but have been switching to LEDs in the last 3 years or so. Reasons?

1. Higher CRI makes for a much more pleasant light. CFLs currently top off around 80. As you know, LEDs can be above 90.

2. Waiting for CFLs to warm up got annoying. I much preferred having instant-on at full power. Especially when I'm just walking through the hallway or grabbing something from a room.

3. CCFLs address some of these issues, but are less efficent and more expensive.

4. Disposing of the CFLs properly is a pain in the butt when you don't have a car.

Mine seem too… I have had two bulbs (out of over 300 die). Both were infant mortality issues. One bulb was a Chinese bulb and a wire to the driver was not soldered properly. Another was a Sylvania 15W PAR38. It popped an internal fuse. I have had several bulbs running 24/7 for over three years… that’s over 25,000 hours.

EPA Energy Star certification involves characterizing the bulb as a unit. The makers have to document testing of the bulb as a whole. They cannot specify lifetimes that they can’t back up and get certification. That is one reason many bulbs say 25,000 hours… their life testing past that could not be backed up with hard data.

Even though you live in the same country as the, Livermore-Pleasnton Fire Dept who have a bulb that has burned for over 950,000 hours, so far, aka 110 YEARS continuously!!
Located at 4550 East Avenue, Livermore, California.

Here is my solution

I got hese yesterday from mail:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/230793300741?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&\_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

Well, at least they are far better than the ones I got over a year ago for similar price.
Tint is pretty warm but bearable.
They light up straight away, which can be a plus.
They make some less light, compared to 7W CFL yet they heat up almost the same.
The shade of the lamp stays 4Celcius cooler when these are in.

CRI is by eye worse, than with 940 fluorescent but that should not surprise anyone.
If you need E14 socket lights to light up fast but no High Quality light is needed measured by CRI, these might well be a good option.

BTW, they look terrible.

4 CFL for 0.97$ ?? :open_mouth: :open_mouth:

here 1 CFL cost around 3-5$ :frowning:

national tv (NBC) was promoting a “go green” iniative for xmas by converting all of the incan xmas lights to led. something i have done a long time ago. i think the case has been made here that led household lighting is still not there wrt cost effectiveness however there are other variables at play and since i do not mind paying more i choose to go led and anxiously await the time when leds replace cfls. if cost effectiveness were the only variable in choosing lights we would all be buying 800 lumen flashlights that cost no more than $12. :slight_smile: and really the name of the forum should be changed to budget led light forum since leds are the priniple topic for discussion with the occasional hid thrown in.

ken

First, I call it “The Disinterested Third Party Fallacy”: The mistaken notion that some (any) third party, other than the two of us, can make a better decision about what’s best for you and for me. And you know what we get from fallacious reasoning…

I want to help you keep your fingers!!

As far as LEDs are concerned, my old eyes see the PWM flicker FAR more on LEDs, since they literally cut ALL the light when they’re Off. And they change color when you lower the If, so you either dim them with flickering pulses or dim-and-recolor them with lower current. Not the choices I’d pay for! OTOH, I will admit that sometimes the color shift makes the Light better…

No, I’m not trying to claim my eyes are immune to Persistence of Vision!! Of course they all look “smooth” generally. PWM flickering makes dangerous things like car engines, fan and saw blades appear to stop moving. That’s as bad as it gets in my book. It’s like lying, and you KNOW how much I hate that!!

Fluorescents (whatever their shape) spark off the plasma & then don’t need that huge blast anymore. Even in the cold (like, e.g., a walk-in freezer), once they start, they’re supposed to calm down. The flickering may be due to bad manufacturing processes or variable AC supply. Don’t laugh. In the PC LAN repair business, we see “Bad AC” far too frequently to “assume” the power company is doing its job. It sounds like maybe yours keep trying to restart. This will cancel any cost savings you might get from fluorescents. Have you tried replacing your Ballast? They make new fluorescents where the tube( s ), fixtures/reflectors, ballast and everything can be hung from its own power cord! And make huge (wicked-cheap) light, with your choice of colors (like the 5000K 4-tube fixtures in my garage & workshop).

The point of all that (waaay off-topic) is, when I’m scroll-sawing (or any time the cutting edge blurs like that), I try to LET the blade “blur”, and just guide the “hole” that’s appearing at the end of the cut. It’s a weird way of looking at things, but it works for me. Just focus on keeping the leading, inside edge of the cut half-way into the pencil line & the cut will be beautiful. I developed this trick working as a “saw man” on a home-building crew… I would have a big problem if the moving blade appeared to stop!!!

Dim

If you have a three-phase supply , you can treble the apparent flicker frequency by using different phases … You do need three times as many light units though.
.

And guess what? That bulb isn’t an LED, it’s incandescant. Of course one out of billions is pretty pour evidence.

Very interesting discussion here. I use exclusively CFLs due to the high cost of electricity where I live. I’m very interested in LED lighting, but from what I can tell, none of the LED bulbs can give me the brightness that I need. I like a very bright room in most circumstances, and so I use 26W CFLs that are approximately equivalent to a 100W inca, if not a bit more. Light output is somewhere over 1600 lumens for these bulbs. I don’t think there’s any LED bulb that can match that. Please give me links if I’m wrong.

That being said, CFLs aren’t ideal. Where I live, they cost around $3/ea, and they don’t last all that long. Most of the locally available CFLs have a putrid, vile, repulsive, sickening, hideous, repugnant, detestable, depressing stark white color. I don’t have enough adjectives to express how much I hate the tint of the CFLs that most people use here. The color is positively depressing. They are just recently starting to import warm light CFLs, but almost nobody here uses them yet. So I’ve been using warm color GE bulbs from the United States, which I really like. They last fairly long, but nothing like the 6 years they advertise. I’ve also had a few duds. The locally available CFLs also burn out quickly, and worse yet, are a fire hazard. In many cases I have been startled by the sound of popping and crackling from up above, followed by sparks and electrical smoke. Not very nice to think what could happen while nobody is at home with a CFL left turned on.

This thread is a good reference, and I think it should be in the LED Light Bulbs category. Anybody mind if I move it there?

It’s a little Suzuki sj, I value reliability and capability over some idea its best because its British. :bigsmile:

The japs have been fairly whuppin the landy bum for a long time with both. Plus, Landrover = British Leyland, I can’t think of a worse example of British manufacturing, I can’t think of one good car they ever made. I’m either Ford’s if its saloon cars or jap if its 4 x 4.

I think its safe to say we trust you moving threads :slight_smile:

SB, if you’ve had your CFLs for awhile, you may find there are much warmer tinted versions available now (I hadn’t seen them before but bought some new bulbs since i just moved).

Here’s one CFL I absolutely LOVE
http://www.lowes.com/pd_46931-75774-L65TN_0?productId=3197521

They work in pretty cold temperatures, and once they warm up (which they do at any ambient temp) they really pump out some good light. Great for garages/shops, etc. - especially for renters that don’t want to waste money/time on new fixtures.

A very nice 24W LED bulb. I have the Sylvania branded versions (both made by Lighting Science Group). They claim 1300 lumens, but I measure over 1400 lumens. They will beat the pants off any CFL bulb. I suspect that even a decent 18W LED bulb will provide more effective light than you CFL.

http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical-Light-Bulbs-LED/EcoSmart/h_d1/N-5yc1vZbm79Z4b8/R-202670526/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=–1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053#.UM-2t46hBHg

Plot of light output and CCT as it warms up. My CRI number is rather bogus. That little bobble in the light output at the end of the curve was me trying to put a thermometer on the bulb and moving it around:

Moved to “LED Light Bulbs”. Good discussion here, please keep it going.