US - Defiant "Super Thrower" 3C (New Model - +/-64mm Head XM-L) - Get To Home Depot Now!

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funkstrong
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Anybody have a good source for a glass lens for this? The ebay link was sold out when I checked it out.

cyclops
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dchomak wrote:
cyclops wrote:
So now, I want to get the max out of this light. What are the must have mods without spending a fortune?

This is a long thread, but if you want to save time and not read every word, do what we have all done since we were just kids – scroll through and look for pictures! Fastest way

Thanks. I am following this thread since long. So far it seems none of the mods (dedoming, AR lens) which have shown significant performance improvement. Even the other thread started by O-L mentioned that his mods did not added any major improvements and he wont recommend them.

Also I am planning to use AA to C adapters with this (Energizer Recharge AA), found this ebay listing, is it worth it?

garrybunk
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You'll actually get slightly less output with NiMh to start, but they should maintain brightness longer than alkalines. 

-Garry

My Bike Lights Thread, Optics (TIR) Comparison Beamshots, Diffusion Techniques


NOTE: Moving my photos from PhotoBucket to Flickr. PM me or post in the thread if you can’t see my images and need me to fix or send a gallery link. PhotoBucket images should remain visible until November 2018.
Ubehebe
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>>>>>>>Also I am planning to use AA to C adapters with this (Energizer Recharge AA), found this ebay listing, is it worth it?

Batteries are an issue with this beast. You might want to try the one 18650 mod described early on in this thread (dowel spacer and plasic pipe sleeve for the 18650). It literally takes 15-30 minutes to make with simple tools and works GREAT. I did two of my lights and three for friends so far.

Your three AA rechargeables will only put out around 3.3-3.6 volts and will decline from there; one 18650 will be 4.2 volts, a SIGNIFICANT voltage improvement. Three alkalines will be maybe 4.2 – 4.5 volts to start, also a significant INITIAL improvement over 3 nicads. I think nicads decline slower voltage-wise than alkalines, but don’t really know.

I have found the thrower to be a real miser on 18650 use. Left it on for 30-minute walk and it was still like 4.01-4.05 volts with a fasttech unprotected samsung purple (2800 mah).

Or if you have the BLF A8 light, you can use that battery tube and one 26650. It pretty much threads perfectly into the thrower head, although just a tad short on the thrower’s threaded “pocket.” Nota big deal though. Plenty of threads do thread in to make it much sturdy. Looks kinda cool, if kinda two-toney.

You could also use one 14500 and some kind of dummy cells for the other AA-to-C adapters. I see someone says two 14500s work, but I really wonder for how long. And one 14500 couldn’t last long methinks.

Hope this helps!!

dchomak
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cyclops wrote:
dchomak wrote:
cyclops wrote:
So now, I want to get the max out of this light. What are the must have mods without spending a fortune?

This is a long thread, but if you want to save time and not read every word, do what we have all done since we were just kids – scroll through and look for pictures! Fastest way

Thanks. I am following this thread since long. So far it seems none of the mods (dedoming, AR lens) which have shown significant performance improvement. Even the other thread started by O-L mentioned that his mods did not added any major improvements and he wont recommend them.

Also I am planning to use AA to C adapters with this (Energizer Recharge AA), found this ebay listing, is it worth it?

That’s right, you will not get huge gains, it is already pretty good. You already got the light for a great price, why spend alot of money to make it a little bit better. In this case then, go for the cheap or free mods.

Convert to direct drive – free
Lower internal resistance – free is you have the wire and know how

Those 2 mods right there are enough to give you noticeable improvement for basically no extra cost.

Beyond that you have a better lense, reflector, driver change, added heat sinking and even a better emitter, all of which will cost a lot of money, way more than the original light itself. You have to decide how far you want to go.

If you use that AA to C adapter and replace 3C Alkaline, you are replacing a total of 4.5V (3×1.5) with 3.6V (3×1.2) Other than ending up with a rechargable flashlight, I think you might actually get less lumens, depending on the ability of the 3 AA’s to drive the current. If you don’t mind 18650’s, that mod is here and will give you more lumens. If you already have an 18650, that mod can be very inexpensive, especially if you have the other parts on hand.

relic38
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My Leica lenses came in today and I like them. Thanks Phil!
I posted a quick reflection comparison of the 64mm Leica lens to plastic and uncoated glass. Enjoy!

Welcome the night.

My Reviews   My Mods    http://budgetlightforum.com/search?

ImA4Wheelr
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I was using AA Eneloops at first because I didn’t want to buy “c” cell and I was just keeping the light by the door to spot things that go bump in the night. Decided I really like this light so I wanted more run time and current. I try to avoid serial Li-ion’s whenever possible. So I rigged a quick and dirty parallel setup. I want to make a better version with copper sheet (when I ever get some).

Used a 3/4” black plastic plumbing tubing (Stuff used to run underground sprinker systems). Cut to a length that comes up to the bottom of the threads in the tail end of the tube. Cut some aluminum flashing (In roofing section of home improvement stores) to attach the positive terminals to each other and again for the negative terminals. Length has to accommodate a double sided adhesive foam. Use something more durable like rubber or plastic. Foam compresses and tears too easily (The foam was just for a test run). Attached to the adhesive foam square making sure that the two connectors do not touch. You absolutely don’t want to short out Li-ions. Test for shorts. The set up is too short. I used 4 copper pennies (pre-1982) as a spacer. Only use similar cells charged to the same voltage. You don’t want an venting or explosion event. Anyone using this approach does so at their own risk.

dchomak
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You did what I was thinking about. Congrats for actually doing it. Could you post pictures again with another background. In my mind what I could not get past is how to construct the 2 cell to parallel holder with the appropiate jumpers to “leapfrog” the 2 positive terminals and the 2 negative terminals.

ImA4Wheelr
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Sorry about the busy background. I’m short on time now, but I will try to take a better picture when I get a chance. I took this picture this morning after making another holder for a different flashlight. Hopefully it is clearer.

Changes made:

  1. Replaced the temporary foam separator with a much safer divider. Used plastic (cut from water bottle cap) sandwiched between rubber-like, double-sided adhesive tape.
  2. Wrapped aluminum jumpers with copper tape to decrease resistance and to make more durable. By the way, the aluminum jumpers could be made from soda cans. I forgot to mention that I folded over the material along the spine to triple the thickness.
  3. Added electrical tape to spine with a bit over the start of each tab to further decrease risk of a short.

It’s not pretty, but it will do for now.

jmpaul320
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You might want to use protected cells just in case

Would you mind keeping the wrong flashlight?
Best wish, May
Tmart service team

 

Soumil wrote:

PLEASE HELP ME GEARBEsT! IM LITERALLY CRYING!

 

Ubehebe
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Do you have an exact name and a sku number for that pipe?

It must be an east-coast thing. I tried every pipe in my Orange County Home Depot and could not find any that would work as a sleeve for 18650s. Ended up using a normal 18650 sleeve that comes with many lights and wound tape around to make it thicker. Maybe I’ll try Lowe’s.

ImA4Wheelr
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Quote:
Ubehebe wrote:

Do you have an exact name and a sku number for that pipe?

Below is a link to the exact pipe I used. Unfortunately, it is only sold in 100ft rolls. Internally it’s wider than then 18650’s, but you need some extra space for the “jumpers”. I sliced my tube down it’s length to accommodate another pipe in my previous AA set up. So it expands just slightly when loaded with the pipe and jumpers. Makes for a nice fit in the flashlight tube.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_24166-124-2-75100100_4294822029__?productId=3514...|1&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNs%3Dp_product_avg_rating|1&facetInfo=

GottaZoom
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Ubehebe wrote:
Do you have an exact name and a sku number for that pipe?

It must be an east-coast thing. I tried every pipe in my Orange County Home Depot and could not find any that would work as a sleeve for 18650s. Ended up using a normal 18650 sleeve that comes with many lights and wound tape around to make it thicker. Maybe I’ll try Lowe’s.

Have you looked in the vinyl tubing and irrigation areas?

HD lists sched 40 PVC and DWV with 1.05 OD and .75 ID. Conduit has a larger ID @ .824 in. If you’ve looked at these they are probably too large at the OD and would need some slimming. My calipers say that maybe 1.5 thousandths larger OD might work, but I think 5 thousandths would need to be turned down to fit.

Are you looking for 1” OD with 3/4” ID (25.04mm OD with 19.05mm ID)?

Watts vinyl tubing (example: SKU # 369329) in black, clear and braided, along with rubber heater hose are listed as 1” with .75” ID at HD online, but not as cheap as pipe.

Not sure if I’ll get a chance to look in the AM. If not, it may be a several days before I can get back to look.

I’d also like a (safe) parallel 18650 setup. I’m thinking a small center spacer out of a wood dowel that the u-shaped leads connect/lock into might be nice.

ruffles
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GottaZoom wrote:
Ubehebe wrote:
Do you have an exact name and a sku number for that pipe?

It must be an east-coast thing. I tried every pipe in my Orange County Home Depot and could not find any that would work as a sleeve for 18650s. Ended up using a normal 18650 sleeve that comes with many lights and wound tape around to make it thicker. Maybe I’ll try Lowe’s.

Have you looked in the vinyl tubing and irrigation areas?

HD lists sched 40 PVC and DWV with 1.05 OD and .75 ID. Conduit has a larger ID @ .824 in. If you’ve looked at these they are probably too large at the OD and would need some slimming. My calipers say that maybe 1.5 thousandths larger OD might work, but I think 5 thousandths would need to be turned down to fit.

Are you looking for 1” OD with 3/4” ID (25.04mm OD with 19.05mm ID)?

Watts vinyl tubing (example: SKU # 369329) in black, clear and braided, along with rubber heater hose are listed as 1” with .75” ID at HD online, but not as cheap as pipe.

Not sure if I’ll get a chance to look in the AM. If not, it may be a several days before I can get back to look.

I’d also like a (safe) parallel 18650 setup. I’m thinking a small center spacer out of a wood dowel that the u-shaped leads connect/lock into might be nice.

Sch40 (white) is just a hair (and I mean, 1.5mm) too big for the defiant. If you have a router, you can shave a bit off. (Hand tools would be time consuming.) 18650s fit reasonably well inside… if I’m worried about rattle, I’ll put an o-ring on them.


 

ImA4Wheelr
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Quote:
jmpaul320 wrote:

You might want to use protected cells just in case

That’s good advice since there is more risk of accidentally shorting the cells when making your own holder. Other than that, my understanding is that parallel set ups are pretty safe as long a you start out with cells of equal voltage. Obviously, the normal single cell safety precautions should still be followed. If you have another reason that I/we should be aware of, please share. It may be good to post such information in the thread to:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/19084

ImA4Wheelr
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Quote:
ruffles wrote:

Sch40 (white) is just a hair (and I mean, 1.5mm) too big for the defiant.

You could slice as small slither the pipe length wise. Then it would compress into the flashlight body. Sounds like it might be a better pipe then I used. Thank you for the info ruffles.

Don
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Old-Lumens wrote:

Gotta stop coming to this forum, Tongue Out   I stopped at Home Deopt in Tyler and could not resist buying another one of these darned lights! I just have to put an SST-90 in it. I need to see if it’s better to use a 4C body or a 3D body on it. If I do a 4C, then I can use 4 C NiMHs and if I do a 3D, I can use 12AA Eneloops. Just have to do some measuring and see how it can all fit together.

There’s still 34 of them in the Tyler HD, in case anyone needs one…

 

Dang you GarryWink

4C will fit in a 3D body with an adapter sleeve and a shorter spring.

I’m pretty sure I’ve put pics up here but the search option has disappeared and my Google-fu is weak.

This gives the option of 3D or 4C. My Varapower 2000 prototype is way down on output on 3D but still gives heaps of light. I own at least 3 lights that give more output but the Varapower is usually at the back door for large black dog spotting duties at night. If not, it’s a SkyRay King. Which walks all over it for output.

 

The numbers from my light tests are always to be found here.

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0ApkFM37n_QnRdDU5MDNzOURjYllmZHI...

Ubehebe
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>>>>>Have you looked in the vinyl tubing and irrigation areas?

Yes, I spent over an hour at HD, going through EVERY pipe there. And I mean EVERY pipe. Electrical, plumbing, gas, water. All of it. Even PVC fittings that I thought I could cut. Nada. The 18650 would fit nicely in some, but most would not fit in the defiant.

If it’s available in rolls, it may be illegal in California. I do NOT remember all the details, but we had one heck of a time finding 1/4-mile of spooled waterline at for a house in Death Valley. The rolls of drinking water pipe were ONLY available in Nevada. It’s been 15 years now, so I do not remember any of the details, but that may be the case.

The original member who did the first defiant 18650 had a black sleeve that fit PERFECTLY. HD staff said that they don’t carry that pipe. I did notice that someone had a Lowe’s link. I will try Lowe’s tomorrow and see waht they have.

Thanks for all your help.

dchomak
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Ubehebe wrote:
Do you have an exact name and a sku number for that pipe?

It must be an east-coast thing. I tried every pipe in my Orange County Home Depot and could not find any that would work as a sleeve for 18650s. Ended up using a normal 18650 sleeve that comes with many lights and wound tape around to make it thicker. Maybe I’ll try Lowe’s.

Sorry you are having such a hard time with this. I got mine at HD. It was in a rack that was a display of precut lengths of 2 feet. That one size was on clearance for the special price of $0.33. I know, some people have all the luck. Or maybe it’s just an East Coast thing Smile

Anyway here is a pic of the SKU label, maybe this will help

And thanks to ImA4Wheelr for his insight and creativity for the parallel cell mod. Here is my attempt using strips of copper flashing and a short piece of 3/4 inch doweling. I cut flats on the side of the dowel and screwed the strip onto the flat. The 3/4 inch pipe holds everything together. I now feel MUCH better about the 18650 mod as almost all of the capacity of the battery compartment is utilized.

GottaZoom
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ImA4Wheelr wrote:
Quote:
ruffles wrote:

Sch40 (white) is just a hair (and I mean, 1.5mm) too big for the defiant.

You could slice as small slither the pipe length wise. Then it would compress into the flashlight body. Sounds like it might be a better pipe then I used. Thank you for the info ruffles.

The amount of room needed for the leads may have an impact, but then perhaps a larger/wider slit would help to accommodate them. Plastic conduit has a bit more internal space as posted above.

I’ve used a circular saw to cut a slit in several 10 foot sections of conduit (to better protect buried cable) and didn’t loose any body parts; but I wouldn’t recommend it either. Smile

GottaZoom
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dchomak wrote:

And thanks to ImA4Wheelr for his insight and creativity for the parallel cell mod. Here is my attempt using strips of copper flashing and a short piece of 3/4 inch doweling. I cut flats on the side of the dowel and screwed the strip onto the flat. The 3/4 inch pipe holds everything together. I now feel MUCH better about the 18650 mod as almost of the capacity of the battery compartment is utilized.


Awesome. I was thinking something very much along what you built, except I will add insulation everywhere it can go. Probably also tin the contact surfaces as per OL’s updates on using copper (kinda looks like you’ve done that on one end).

GottaZoom
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dchomak wrote:
I got mine at HD. It was in a rack that was a display of precut lengths of 2 feet. That one size was on clearance for the special price of $0.33. I know, some people have all the luck. Or maybe it’s just an East Coast thing Smile

Anyway here is a pic of the SKU label, maybe this will help

Maybe the OD varies by geography/supplier? Home depot specs show same OD as PVC?

ID is a bit larger at .81 vs .75, so might be more room for the parallel rig.

GottaZoom
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Ubehebe wrote:
>>>>>Have you looked in the vinyl tubing and irrigation areas?

Yes, I spent over an hour at HD, going through EVERY pipe there. . . If it’s available in rolls, it may be illegal in California.

I’d hazard a guess they still sell rolled heater hose for vehicles and braided hose for bilge pumps somewhere . . grew up there, but get back less and less often . . . OC is just not the same any more.

dchomak
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The O.D. of the pipe I have is just under 1”

virtually the same diameter as a C cell

ImA4Wheelr
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That is very nice looking work you did there. Do you know off the top of your head what gauge copper sheeting you used?

dct73
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ImA4Wheelr wrote:
I was using AA Eneloops at first because I didn’t want to buy “c” cell and I was just keeping the light by the door to spot things that go bump in the night. Decided I really like this light so I wanted more run time and current. I try to avoid serial Li-ion’s whenever possible. So I rigged a quick and dirty parallel setup. I want to make a better version with copper sheet (when I ever get some).

Used a 3/4” black plastic plumbing tubing (Stuff used to run underground sprinker systems). Cut to a length that comes up to the bottom of the threads in the tail end of the tube. Cut some aluminum flashing (In roofing section of home improvement stores) to attach the positive terminals to each other and again for the negative terminals. Length has to accommodate a double sided adhesive foam. Use something more durable like rubber or plastic. Foam compresses and tears too easily (The foam was just for a test run). Attached to the adhesive foam square making sure that the two connectors do not touch. You absolutely don’t want to short out Li-ions. Test for shorts. The set up is too short. I used 4 copper pennies (pre-1982) as a spacer. Only use similar cells charged to the same voltage. You don’t want an venting or explosion event. Anyone using this approach does so at their own risk.

!https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-_dqFkmKwoT8/UTLZ2qDa28I/AAAAAAAAAA0/y...!

That’s bloody brilliant! And I like the harbor freight background Smile

Ubehebe
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Great ideas all for finding the right pipe to sleeve 18650s. I will hit a plumbing supply house around the block tomorrow, and lowe’s. I’ll find it yet!!!

As I said, I modded some pf those translucent sleeves that come with a lot of 18650 lights to stop the battery rattle. I then neatly layered a “ring” of electric tape to bring the diameter up for a tight fit in the defiant battery tube. Works GREAT, but does not have the slick look of the pipe-sleeve.

If you haven’t done it, I HEARTILY recommend the 18650 mod in this thread. This light may be a spotlight beast, but it also is a 18650 miser. Almost 40 minutes with ONE samsung unprotected pink pack-pull 2600 only brought the battery level down to like 4.02. And one 18650 versus three c-cells REALLY lightens the load!

Thanks to everyone for their pipe-hunting tips. I won’t give up until I find the right diameter!!!!! I feel in my bones that my luck will change tomorrow.

ImA4Wheelr
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Quote:
Ubehebe wrote:

I spent over an hour at HD, going through EVERY pipe there.

It just hit me. You can fabricate your own pipe quite easily. Use a sheet of thin plastic or hard cardboard to wrap into a tub shape. If you use cardboard, be sure to monitor for wear so you don’t get a short. Those thin plastic throw away cutting board sheets that they use for cooking would probably be a great material.

dchomak,

I realized the brilliance of your wooden insulator design after I commented above. You eliminated the need for a spacer like the pennies I was using. I wish I would have noted that a spacer thicker than 4 pennies would be better. A thicker spacer would give more spring compression (lower resistance generally). Other than that, it looks like you have about the lowest resistance setup that can be made for this app. If I wasn’t a diy kind of guy, I would be offering to purchase some of those from you.

dct73,

Thank you for your kind words.

dchomak
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I was at my Home Depot today and bought the last of the 3/4 inch pipe that they had. From now on, anybody that wants some has to deal with me.
Seriously, If anybody can’t find it just PM me and I will send you some, no strings attached.

Here is a pic of the display, they sell short pieces, precut to 2’ as a courtesy to anyone that needs just a short piece. It didn’t sell so they put it on clearance. They had 5 left so i bought all 5. Marked down from $1.09 per 2’ length to $0.23.

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dchomak wrote:
I was at my Home Depot today and bought the last of the 3/4 inch pipe that they had. From now on, anybody that wants some has to deal with me.
Seriously, If anybody can’t find it just PM me and I will send you some, no strings attached.

Here is a pic of the display, they sell short pieces, precut to 2’ as a courtesy to anyone that needs just a short piece. It didn’t sell so they put it on clearance. They had 5 left so i bought all 5. Marked down from $1.09 per 2’ length to $0.23.

!{width:100%}http://i1166.photobucket.com/albums/q609/dchomak/P1040490_zpsd6dda579.jpg!

where in ct are you? i could use some

Would you mind keeping the wrong flashlight?
Best wish, May
Tmart service team

 

Soumil wrote:

PLEASE HELP ME GEARBEsT! IM LITERALLY CRYING!

 

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