Seems to be a few " based on the Panasonic 3100 cell" Li-on batteries popping up on the forums. I wonder what is happening that they are suddenly being marketed like they are the Ferraris of the battery world?
I see that the actual Panasonic 3100 is advertised for $6.55 per cell, why are the copies more expensive?
http://www.evvatech.com/sdp/1015379/4/pd-4967686/8681660.html
I went by US$, being as that's where I am - six at $8.38/pair is $25.14 with free shipping, while one of these is $22.99 including shipping... so I exaggerated slightly - you can only get five and a half protected trustfire flames for the same price, not six. 
So far I've had no problems with the trustfires, and with that price difference, I can throw four of them out and still have more mAh/$.
I've had problems with other brands, although I could get 14 of the ebay ultrafire 3000mah counterfeits for the same price as one of these....
And spending three times as much on a battery as the light I'd be putting in it seems just plain wrong. Even after the xm-l and new driver I plan on putting in several of my lights, these cells still cost slightly more than the lights and upgrade parts...
Find a way to sell them for under $10/cell including shipping (that's still over twice what the trustfires cost), and I'll consider testing one or two.
--Bushytails
While ~$20 does seem a bit high, it's not exactly outrageous. The price above for loose unprotected cells is for minimum 100 and the going rate for standard sanyo's on ebay is $10/apiece. Just because kinda crappy cells are $5 apiece doesn't mean someone who wants to try the latest and greatest is overspending when it's only $20 anyway.
First I'd like to point out that these aren't 'copies' they are protected cells, using the 3100mah panasonic as a 'base cell' based on does not mean a copy but that the actual foundation of the cell is the 3100mah cell. Like the $17.75 AW and Redilast 2900 cells are 'based on' the panasonic 2900 cell.
I see what you mean with mah per $, but remember all those mah aren't in one cell, and you're paying for reliability etc. I very much understand the price argument from a budget light perspective though. I mean if I only had a light worth $15 then I would not pay more for a cell for it, unless perhaps I was considering that the cell would last through a good few years of use as my light was upgraded over and over..
Unfortunately, if I sold them for under $10 a cell including shipping then I would actually be making a significant loss on each and every one. Remember I have to buy in bulk, and I also have to pay not for a bare cell but for a cell with a protection circuit made by seiko built in with good QC process and gold plated contact on the rear + extra wrapping and a button top and the sticker. I also have to pay postage myself, the price quoted on the websites you like to read isn't like at manafont and dx where they make their money for the shipping on the item cost. I have to pay significant real world shipping charges on top of that too. EDIT: I also forgot to mention import taxes of 17.5% when it comes into the UK.
Actually, when you factor in my time organising/designing this and shipping them out, after selling these 20 cells I would have been better off taking on extra overtime working in my local supermarket on minimum wage. I am just hoping when they get noticed over on CPF you will get a number of people coming over to this site just to buy these cells, and I will have a steady stream of sales, if that happens it will be worth my while to continue selling. If not, then the opportunity to buy these cells at this low price will be gone.
By the way, Don, I'm glad you got the cells so fast! How do you like them?
You only need to buy 100 to get that price = $6.55 that's $655 + shipping , unless you can pick up .
If you got 1000 Im sure you could get an even better price .
Then you could sell them in individual lots , so $655 + Shipping [ protection circuit ? + wrapped in your own label = hmmm wonder what that costs ] and then lets not forget something for your trouble , and the final price = ?
Sorry guys , you dont get something for nothing : and the few Jap cells I have , are better than the Chinese ones .
Im not forcing anything on anyone , but seriously , it takes a fair bit of Gumption to go out and make something happen , and I really dont see why the need to flame , if your not interested thats fine , but why this ?
This is no different than getting flamed over at the other site for mentioning budget lights !
I am surprised at the "flaming" that occurs in for sale threads at CPF. I am a member of other forums (not flashlight/knives) where comments in for sale threads that are not related to buying the item are not tolerated. I would not like to see that kind of heavy moderation here but as old4570 says if your not interested , don't comment.
I think the issue here is that this may not be the best place for selling cells like this. BLF is generally about "bang for the buck". While these likely provide the most "bang" (in a good way) they also cost quite a few bucks.
I think maybe those who like the idea of $7 3100mAh cells ought to do a group buy and then figure out just how much it ends up costing to get them assembled with protection circuits and shipped all over the place. Either that or just use the bare cells at $7. That extra stuff (and labor and logistics) isn't free.
I don't want to come across as flaming anyone, but when they advertise the cells as the highest capacity, highest quality, currently on the market, I think that deserves some explanation. Especially when there is another thread running concurrently about batteries based on the same Panasonic 3100, making about the same claims. Just seems like there are new ones suddenly popping up that I've never heard of.
Nice that technology is advancing, or that Panasonic is licensing out its technology, I'd just kinda like to know what the story is.
thanks, Red Forest, for the explanation.
Redforest and myself apparently came across the same information and are most likely getting them from the same place. It seems since redilast or AW did not come out with these first there is a lot of skepticism.
Too some extent I can explain this, from my experience of importing Chinese merchandise (we import automotive led lights) we used to import Hello Kitty toys before the market was flooded with them. None of the bulk China dealers we have dealt with ever pass along when they get new items in. We have litrally ordered tens of thousands of dollars a month from some of these companies. And if you stop ordering from them they don't so much as send you a email.
So AW and Redilast may not even be aware they are available. I'm about 90% sure these are coming form the same factory. They offered us the same foil label as AW Redilast and the EX battery. What factory do you think the X-tar is coming from????? Hmmm same black wrapper, same foil label???? Based on real brand name Sanyo cells ????
Segregation ? Surely not !
Redforest: I'm not saying you're ripping people off, or excessively profiting... I know it's costing you a lot. But, I just can't justify spending so much money on something like a battery, when there's usable ones for so much less. I'd have to work 4 hours for every cell I bought from you, which is 3-4 days of my food money, and that's just not worth it to me, for just a little extra capacity and reliability.
--Bushytails
I have tried to explain in the OP and thread why these are the 'best' cells on the market. They have the highest capacity base cell available, coupled with as good a PCM as any other cell has, they can be discharged to a lower 2.5v and are inherently a bit safer than previous li-ion cells. This makes them the best.
I am not actually claiming them to be better than the 3100mah cells xxlmm4 has got, they are likely the same cells with different labels, his are 'the best on the market' too, but I think mine are a better deal for UK/EU buyers by a significant amount (in fact I don't think he ships outside the US).
When you consider how many cells AW and Redilast sell at a higher price, they are who I am competing with, and I am providing the latest cell from the same supplier as Redilast, at a cheaper price. They have actually let me know that Redilast are now sourcing the same cell, they have been delaying probably to sell off lots of their previous 2900 stock, but soon they will have the 3100s available too. But I think I will still be much better value for the same thing with a different label for UK/EU buyers, (and probably even US ones) I thought that was what 'budget' was about, it's all relative, and I know these will be too expensive for quite a lot of peoples tastes, and in fact a large majority on this forum. But, getting exactly the same thing for less is what I feel best about when buying, not just getting the cheapest ;)
This is a sale for those who feel they want to pay however much more, for the best quality, a local supplier and good customer service (I hope!). It is up for discussion whether it is 'worth it' but that is subjective and of course dependant on how much money people have to spare, but I know there are a lot of those people out there.
Again, I will say that they are competition for AW and Redilast 18650 cells with a better base cell, the same quality manufacturing and a cheaper price. Remember, in the UK, retail price for an AW 2900 cell is £16. In the US you often get much better deals, so for the UK/EU I think these are priced very well, for the US they aren't bad either.
Redforest UK,
These look like outstanding cells. They got me thinking of a few new builds now... Thanks for offering these.
Hi RedForest.
I would be interested in purchasing some of these cells, and just wondered if you could give an update as to how many you have left. Still nine as per post #18?
Thanks
Stephen
Hi Stephen,
Sorry, but I only have 5 left right now, and 2 to 4 are pending sale at the moment. I can sell you 3 at the most I think, as the other buyer has only declared solid interest in 2. I am still trying to organise another relatively small shipment until sales pick up a bit so I may get a few more in a while.
On another note. I would like to make clear that my supplier has just confirmed to me that they did not fit 2.8v PCM as I originally asked but instead used the 2.5v ones recommended by Panasonic and used by Redilast and AW in their 2900 cells. This may explain why the PCM did not cut-off in my tests, I only measured down to 2.56v. I would still imagine it could be bypassed by a very low current draw however, and it should not make much difference in regulated/high current lights as when the cell hits 2.5v in those and the PCM cuts in it should quickly bounce back up a bit to a higher voltage.
However, if you have already purchased any of these cells from me and are unhappy with this new development please contact me and we can work out a returns process for a full refund. I hope it won't be seen as a big problem, but I do not want to have mis-sold these cells in any way as that has never been my intention.
Red,
Many thanks for your quick response - much appreciated.
Three would be fine - if you continue to import these, I can always get more later on.
Please PM me your paypal e-mail address, and I'll make payment.
Thanks again
Stephen
ps - does this forum have the five post minimum before you can receive PMs?
I have sent you a PM Stephen, I don't think there is any minimum post count before you can receive/send PMs on this forum. I find it much more informal and trusting, in a good way :)
"
Hi Stephen,
Sorry, but I only have 5 left right now, and 2 to 4 are pending sale at the moment. I can sell you 3 at the most I think, as the other buyer has only declared solid interest in 2. I am still trying to organise another relatively small shipment until sales pick up a bit so I may get a few more in a while."
So, just to be clear, how many, if any are left? If possible I will take 2.
Thanks
VegasF6: I have replied to your PM.
To make it clear for everyone else, all 5 remaining cells are currently accounted for, they are pending sale not certainly sold yet though. Vegas is next in line for any that become available.
I am hoping to arrange another shipment of 20 cells with my supplier but that is not certain either, and I don't have the money to order 100 in one go so we will see..