Im gonna hit them with my Pila charger and see how that goes and do a discharge on the Hyperion. The Pila brought them back from 0.00v the last time, But it didnt last long before they started this last round of issues.
Last resort ill pull the PCB off both and try them unprotected.
Faulty Protection Circuit ? or bad cells ?
This is sounding interesting .. From DX you say . Hmmm , have the bad TF cells reached DX ?
I take it that this is not common for TF flames? Are they the best recommended batteries?
I bought a pair of TF Flames 18650 from KD a couple of months ago. One of them arrived reading 0 volt but took charge without a problem, probably just a tripped protection circuit I thought. But when I tested it about a week later it read 0 volt again and it had just been laying on the shelf. I tried to cycle it a few times but I couldn't make it hold a charge.
The other cell works but it only delivers 1,5 amps to my XM-L light while my green unprotected UltraFire and my AW 2900 delivers 2,5 amps. The cells looks the same as the pictures on DX so I guess they are "genuine". Genuine crap cells...
From now on I will only buy quality cells such as AW and XTAR 2600.
Ive not been into the flashlight hobby long enough to test the longevity of anything, But these two different TF Flames are the first items ive had die for no reason.
I just pulled out the Fluke meter as i put both cells in my Pila charger last night with hopes it may have some magic it could work.
Flame 18650: I charged to 4.2v and is now down to 4.13v and im pretty sure it wont hold any capacity once i run a discharge cycle on my Hyperion. Most likely this cell is toast as last tested showed it at 250mAH capacity.
Flame 14500: Was also put on the Pila and it came back to life once it was hit with juice, But is back too 0.00v this morning. Ill be removing the PCB protection on this cell to try and revive it.
On a side note, The 14500 cells that came in this last order earlier this week are much larger cells than the first ones i got. But i think those came from Ebay.
Ill slowly be replacing these Flame cells with higher quality ones when i can. I have a bunch of Panasonic 18650 cells so im ok on them, But i only have Flame 14500's. Im really disappointed as from what ive found while researching the web that the Flames were the highest quality Chinese cells available.
I have six trustfire flames, 4 14500s and 2 18650s, all work the best of all the cells I've tried...
Could be you got defective cells (quality control is often lacking), or maybe they sat on the shelf for too long and self-discharged too far, hence reading 0.0 on arrival.
If you just got them, report to DX that they're defective, and they'll get another pair in the mail, probably within a few days.
--Bushytails
I have over 40 18650 Trustfire Flames all from DX I have only had 3 out of those with problem. I got a two of the bad protection circuit ones they work fine as long as you don't pull more than one amp and one with a cooked protection circuit that I took off and it works fine. I got 2 unprotected ones from Manafont that deliver 4.5amps to my UF980L. I have about a dozen of the Trustfire flame 16340s from DX only one DOA that I was not able to revive. I have about a dozen 14500 Trustfire flame 14500s from DX not a single problem with any of them. To me that is pretty good quality for cheap Chinese products.
2x 18650 flame and 2x 14500 flame have served well.
BUT these are not a recent buy, so quality of these could be going down…
Suggestions, Solarforce? Basic choice of AW? Something else
I know DX may replace the one cell or at least refund me, But its not worth the hassle. I dont hold it against them anyhow.
As to further investigate the issues i pulled the wrapping off of both cells. The Flame 14500 was reading 0.00v before and now 4.196v, So im pretty sure the protection system went bad. Im gonna cycle it on my Hyperion and make sure its good to go. Now here comes the part that irks me, Its a 750mAH cell they relabeled at 900mAH. Its clearly printed right on the side.
The 18650 cell seemed odd, I couldn't find no PCB anywhere. It turns out the cells from Ebay that i bought were all unprotected. This was one of my first flashlight related purchases so i took for granted that these would be protected. But that doesn't explain why the cell died.
If i switch to another brand i know it will be more expensive so ill just have to see what i need and can afford at the time i buy more cells.
BTW the Flame 14500 with the PCB removed is doing fine while being cycled so it must have been the PCB that was the issue, The 18650 is junk tho.
Alternatives could be Hi-Max (review) or Xtar 2600 (review) batteries.
Thanks for all the battery stuff old4570 btw...
Do lithiums even go to 0v? That's basically a short so either the batteries are FUBAR (which doesn't seem to be the case) or the protection circuit is jacked.
I think your right as they shouldn't ever read 0v. As the 14500 cell i tested after removing the protection PCB tested out to: Dishcharge 784mAH and Charged 765mAH
As for the 18650 cell all i know is it would only hold a charge of 250mAh, So its been junked. Why it died i don't know, My chargers wont over charge and ive never run the cell in a light that didn't have built in voltage protection. That is my Olight M20s Warrior.
Im not to pleased TF listed this cell as 900mAH when its clearly stamped 750mAH under the pretty flame wrapper.
Got 4pcs protected 14500 flames a few weeks ago from DX, they all came in at between 3.8v to 3.85v. Gave 2 to a friend for his e-cigs - he says the 2 are longer than his older flames and run out faster too.
While mine does seem a tight fit for my TF SA-2 and UF C3, but I can't really tell since this is my first time using 14500s.
The cells should not read 0.0v = Usually protection circuit problem ..
If you pull of the protection and they do the same thing - yeah recycle the cells ..
Ive had a few with faulty protection circuits , once removed the cells seem to work ok .
One has to wonder if these are the counterfeit Flames . ?
Id say no.
My first set is smaller and will fit in a 4xAA battery case, But these dont fit in it. Despite me being upset of the 750mAH marking on the cell under the wrapping, It did do 760-780mAH under very light testing at 4.16v down too 3v so had i pushed the cell it would have done 900mAH+ easily. Both sets are protected cells, But they cant be the same ones underneath.
The unprotected 18650 that died i bought off Ebay 6 weeks ago, And i bought 4 and the other 3 work great and test out to perfect specs.
I think im gonna chalk this up to bad luck, That 18650 was slowly going as i noticed it only holding 4.13v for a few weeks. But it should have held up to the 1.5A tests i ran on it im doing to all my cells and keeping records of. As long as nothing else flips out and keels over ill stick with the Flames, As they have been good up until this.
People have gotten counterfeit *fires on ebay... It's a sad comment on chinese industry when people are counterfeiting brands that are themselves counterfeits...
If DX is shipping them though, that'd be annoying...
--Bushytails
They may not be 100% counterfeits per se, just very lowly specced batts. They still work in a P4/Q5 which is the majority in which the masses in China can afford...few bucks light, you probably would not notice the drop. Actually that is already high-end, when I was in YiWu which is sort of the distribution centre for 70% of EVERYTHING common/commidties that you get in Americas/Europe, there are much simpler stuff there for the locals. Because that place is for "commoners", Shenzhen is more for electronics and apparels.
With a high powered cutting-edge light that the rest of the world plays with...woah. The might have come out from the "true trustfire appointed factory"....same line/same workers. Why is it so much lowered in performance? Someone paid the line to do it, everyone....perhaps the workers do not even get the share, just act on "manager's orders". 1 single run of 5000 batts - a lot goes to the manager. $1 cost price per batt becomes 20 cents per batt. I'd be surprised if there is much lithium inside. This happens when you have the "connection", everything works on connection in China.
Like that Sky Ray STL-V2 and Fandyfire STL-V6 (coz Fandyfire STL-V2 became the 3 x T6), prob from the M3X line. LOL! Even the models are mixed up, so they just conveniently choose a higher number.
The few times I've been to China, there are many rich man/woman who comes out to play. Audi S8, Merc S500/600 zooms by so regularly that it makes me as a SG citizen "blush". Have you been to a luxury restaurant in which 1 dozen man and woman whose job is just to stand there at the entrance, look pretty and bow to you and say "Welcome"? Or they light fireworks, BIG mofo 1.3G firework cakes (very illegal in USA I think), to welcome you? But at the back end, there are so many "peasants" that their saliva spit alone would make us drown.
Life is cheap. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9uuIa5GAAI
Well the 14500 with the bad pcb and low marked cell came from DX, This one was much larger the set i bought off ebay weeks earlier. But it checked out spec wise and if pushed too 2.5v on a discharge would easily max +900mAH capacity.
I have or should say "had" 4 unprotected cells from ebay and the guy sold them with a charger deal from a USA location for $30 and another $10 for a second set of 18650's. That matches and almost beats DX prices from a USA seller. So very possible they are fakes, But i can test them today and see how the other 3 are doing.
My cells see little use since im so new to this and have about 7 flashlights ive acquired in 6 weeks and have no legit use for them except i just enjoy them and pray the electricity goes out so i can play with my toys. Ill test all 3 from the batch i got from that USA seller which are all btw all unprotected, But that was my fault for being a newb and not knowing they made Flames in both varieties.
2100- China is a world away from the USA and most likely imitates a time in our past when we were industrial giants like China has become. Cool fireworks, But thats crazy close to many flammable things and a person here would be arrested before they even stopped and sued for damages i couldn't even imagine.
Ill post back some capacity graph tests of the other three 18650's.
Ive got really bad news for myself, All 4 18650 cells i bought off Ebay cant even hold a charge to handle 1.5 amps for more than a few seconds and under a few minutes at .5 amps.
Im testing the 2 TF Flame protected cells i just got from DX and the first one is handling a 1.5 amp discharge just fine. Ill post those results later as they will take a while to finish the cycle, But the results look promising.
I used a few of the cells with no issue that i could see, But the charger tells me different. Im gonna stick each cell with a full charge into a single 18650 light and see how long it lasts. Ill charge all 3 cells on my Pila charger so i cant blame the Hyperion for any odd reason.
Cell #1 @ 1.5amps
Cell #2 @ 1.5amps
Cell #3 @ 1.5amps
Cell #4 @ 1.5amps
Cell #4 @ .5amps
This cell was tested when i first got the charger, I never tested the unprotected ones above until i decided to do a cycle test on every Li-Ion cell i own. Cell #5 is in the Hyperion now and is doing fine just like the one below. Note i didnt have a temp probe when i ran this one.
Cell #6 @ 1.5amps
So, to make sure I'm understanding you right... the DX trustfire flames are good cells but one had a bad protection board, while the ebay trustfire flames are garbage?
--Bushytails