Get these and we can start fighting the sun with photon wars.
How about if they were arranged like the mini-dies in an MT-G2…72 of em in a solid pattern…90,000+ lumens of awesomeness! The “die” base would be about 4” in circumference, oh yeah, that would be impressive. Build one Comfy! lol
In a single row, that's 87 LEDs per foot... 296 volts @ 3A, 888 watts...
The actual die measures .15” square.
It's bigger than XPG2's substrate?
All I know is that my digital calipers say .15” measuring the square base.
I measure XPG2 as .1365" side to side, .190" corner to corner. So, is this one using a bigger substrate just with the same XP pad layout on the bottom?
I took a bit more care measuring and got .13” or 3.5mm. My caliper doesn’t go to the 4th digit.
Don’t know how much these can be trusted. El cheapo plastic ones from Harbor Freight.
I like the de-domed XP-L V5 2A enough to put it in my Sinner Ti, where it draws 5.71A from a Sony C5 at 4.21V for 1345 OTF.
Actually, I'm still very hopeful. Sure, it doesn't do well when over driven, but that's not so easy to do with a triple or quad mcpcb. If it can still pull 7.5A in RMM's S3 like it does with XP-G2's, that will be around 3000 lumens. I don't see why hope for those results should be diminished yet.
Let's just hope that Cree does whatever magic they did with this thing to bump up the efficiency of the XM-L soon while allowing it to be driven hard without burning up those little wires. XM-L3?
I’m probably misunderstanding, but I don’t think it’s possible to get 3000 lumens from 7.5A, especially in a quad or triple.
Slewflash, in theory 2.5A to an XM-L2 is 1000 lumens. The triple XM-L2 will do that, I’m pretty sure, and maybe then some depending on cell used.
That said, we ARE talking theory…I have a triple XM-L in a chopped mini mag pulling 7.47A from an AW IMR14500 that puts 1356 OTF with Carclo 10507 optics. These are older XM-L emitters and they’re de-domed, so there are losses.
Yeah… that’s just it. That’s in theory with adequate cooling. Even my Shocker running each XML at 3.8A each doesn’t touch 3000 lumens. I get closer to 2800 OTF. With quads and triples, there’s way less material to pull away the heat and less surface area so in theory (and in practice) triples and quads get heatsoaked way faster and have less ability to cool than singles (which is how an XML2 is reaching 1000lm @ 2.5A in theory).
Hence, there would have to be some kind of wizardry to reach 3000lm from 7.5A.
I’m not trying to diminish anything, but let’s be real - the release of the XP-L is not the day we reach 3000lm @ 7.5A.
Just because it's brighter doesn't mean it'll be hotter. It might actually be a lot cooler than the triple XP-G2's creating 1700 lumens at 7.5A because working at higher efficiency results in more lumens instead of heat.
For a small light, using a small cell, these are going to rock.
The last small triple XP-G2 I built I used an FET driver and XP-G2 R5 1A emitters, loaded with an MBI IMR14500 at 4.21V it pulls 7.03A for 1418 start lumens, 1177 OTF at 30 seconds. This is a 3” chopped AA Mini Mag. So if the XP-G2’s are only doing 1200 lumens in the 7A ballpark, there is plenty of room for improvement.
thanks for the info Dale.
I just got mine in today. Probably do three de-domed in an optic with a 5 amp driver on noctigon. Make the worlds most expensive 502b. Big chunk of copper where the reflector was. Make a 1,500 lumen pocket light.
I get more like 8.5-8.6A with 3x XPG2/17DD/20R. You need welding gloves to run them at that level longer than about 2 minutes though. Also don't forget the dinky little TIRs are only ~85% efficient.
I expect dedomed XP-Ls in the same setup are going to yield only about 2200-2300 OTF@30s. LOL, 'only'.
I did some tests of the XP-L V6 2C on a Noctigon in a P60 pill w/Nanjg at 3.85A (3 extra 7135's), using a LT2 host with an XML SMO reflector -- unimpressive. I wanted to compare head to head with a XM-L2 U2 1A, so, I first measured lumens only with the XM-L2 star, then swapped the star using the same pill/driver. Surprisingly, the initial results came out dead even @30 secs. I didn't use any wrapping on the P60 intentionally. I used healthy LG HE2's to ensure amp readings of 3.92A, and all my tests were done at that amp reading for both the XM-L2 U2 1A and the XP-L V6 2C.
I'm not happy with how equal the test configurations are because of:
- XP-L in a XML SMO reflector
- initial test done with the same low profile LED alignment piece as used for the XM-L2, so the reflector depth should match, but can't guarantee the LED centering, though it looks pretty good. The Noctigon shows around the LED because of the reduce size of course.
- Maybe didn't wait long enough between tests - heat issues?
- I left the thermal grease on the pill top as-is. I think I used a thicker grease that doesn't spread out, at the time - not sure if this had any negative effect, but should be equal for the XM-L2 and XP-L?
Throw was slightly better, sure within tolerances, but I got 20 kcd on the XP-L. I didn't do "before" measurements today, but previously measured 19 kcd.
Though the results are surprising low according to the specs, this could be a confirmation of Dale's tests, though I'm using the V6 bin. Still, the 2C tint is pretty nice for getting the same output of a XM-L2 U2 1A.
I did later try this for the XP-L: http://intl-outdoor.com/cree-xpe-xpg-insulation-gaskets-10-pcs-p-487.html, in white, and got slightly better #'s in throw and lumens -- very slight.
Here's the test setup/results:
- Using L2T host - low profile SS bezel, AR lens from CNQ, copper braided tail spring
- Using HE LG2 cells at full charge
- P60#1 pill - Nanjg @3.85A, XM-L2 U2 1D/SinkPAD, braided + spring (no wrap)
- P60#2 pill - Nanjg @3.85A, XM-L2 U2 1A/Noctigon, braided + spring (no wrap)
- L2T/P60 #1: 3.89A tail, lumens: 1,207 @start, 1,125 @30 secs
- L2T/P60 #2: 3.92A tail, lumens: 1,258 @start, 1,156 @30 secs
- L2T/P60 #2 swapping in XP-L VC 2C/Noctigon: 3.92A tail, lumens: 1,251 @start, 1,156 @30 secs, throw: 20 kcd
- same as above but with disc LED piece: 3.92A tail, lumens: 1,258 @start, 1,163 @30 secs, throw: 21 kcd
Thanks Tom.
So as suspected it’s basically just XM-L2 cut down. Still, it should be interesting for triples.
..and interesting for small lights running at less than 3A (as long as the new higher binned xml2 are not available).
+1