Olight Javelot M2X-UT Review *Pic Heavy* ---===11/19/14 Updates===--- Dual Power Supply Capability

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wolfdog1226
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COULD you describe the tint?

Never mind,,,i found your comment about it

Thanks

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gaston01
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Excellent review! thanks for sharing…

Now, I wonder why so many Kcds ( 194kcd) with a led dedome but powered only at 3A ? Shocked

By the measures of reflector I see very similar of Small sun Zy-t13/08/HD2010 is so? And I see these flashlight s with extreme/heavy mod and are between 200kcd with the same led dedome but working a lot more current Sad may be due to this?

Sorry for my bad English…

bibihang
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I was looking forward to a review of this light, but I didn’t know it came out from someone so quick! Thank you Dale.

Driven at 3.56A already putting out 237kcd, showing how much of potential this light got. Driven at 5A and above will surely enters the 250kcd (1km) realm!

DB Custom
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I have spent the evening working hard, and learned something that has been present and a PITA before now but it just hit home. 

Cree's new emitters are indeed coming out with higher forward voltage. Including this one. This is why it's making decent output at lower amperage. I now have this Olight doing 264Kcd for 1027.62M. But it's only pulling 4.34A. Blew me away, the low amperage. I'm accustomed to the FET drivers on a C5 pulling over 6A, even close to 7A. I've built an Eagle Eye X6 that did 6.64A and 1800 lumens before de-doming, 1618 after de-doming. This one is making 1197 lumens. I'm shocked, stunned, and also somewhat pleasantly surprised at the beam this bad boy is making. I was expecting more, but what it has is pretty impressive, even if it's doing it with new numbers.

At 4.34A, it's got 3.89Vf. Things are changing, and the big Kcd numbers are going to be much more difficult to obtain. The big brother to this Javelot, my SR-90 Intimidator, is making 610Kcd, with rested cells that haven't been charged in months. From a de-domed XM-L2 U2 1A.

I'm extremely tempted to dig through my kit and find an older emitter, swap it out. But dang if I'm not tired right now... Silly

bibihang
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264kcd with light in this size is really good.

With these newer batch of emitters although they increase the Vf of the emitters but at the same time the emitters require lesser current to it to achieve the same output, meaning less battery voltage sag.

DB Custom
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And I just got some provenance on that issue. I swapped in an older XM-L2 U2 1A de-domed. The light now pulls much higher amperage, and makes more lumens, lux and throw. But it's not as significant a gain as the amperage would suggest.

Tentatively, the emitter swap took this light from 4.34A to 6.03A. Lumens went from 1197 to 1435. Lux from 264 to 278.75Kcd and throw from 1027.62M to 1055.94M.

So, yes, the older emitters do make higher numbers, but with a cost of burning considerably more power and making more heat.

Chazzy
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What a wonderful review!

Mods at the end of reviews are always nice to see.

"Whoa that's a bright light!" ... Yea I guess.

bibihang
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DBCstm wrote:
Tentatively, the emitter swap took this light from 4.34A to 6.03A. Lumens went from 1197 to 1435. Lux from 264 to 278.75Kcd and throw from 1027.62M to 1055.94M.

+1

So your standpoint is more valid. Smile The increased Vf of newer emitters can’t overcome the performance of the older emitters with higher current draw ability.

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thanks for the review!

 

already member of M4DM4X.com ?

the best deals are waiting for YOU!

 

before you buy elsewhere mail me: MARTIN@M4DM4X.COM - i will try to save you money!

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Great thrower indeed!
Yet, the twist head switch mode is TERRIBLE and its not only my point, i dont know a person who likes it, dont Olight read user comments about that issue? i even bought m22 warrior with hope to get use with the interface….i was wrong no matter how i tried: great torch, terrible interface

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I don't understand the issues with the modes. Isn't this just like the M3X? You twist the head, right? Why is that bad? You want a light to STAY in a mode so that when it gets clicked back on quickly, it remains in the same usable mode, no? That's always how I've felt. 

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DavidEF
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bibihang wrote:
DBCstm wrote:
Tentatively, the emitter swap took this light from 4.34A to 6.03A. Lumens went from 1197 to 1435. Lux from 264 to 278.75Kcd and throw from 1027.62M to 1055.94M.

+1

So your standpoint is more valid. Smile The increased Vf of newer emitters can’t overcome the performance of the older emitters with higher current draw ability.


I thought his numbers showed that the higher performance of the older emitters was because of the lower Vf, and the limitations of a 4.2V cell. In that case, I think a parallel set of cells could help the newer emitters a bit. But, a buck driver with some cells in series would be even better. I’d like to see what the newer emitters are capable of when you give them enough headroom for their higher Vf requirements, rather than trying to run them off a single cell.

Edit: I meant to say, too, that since these numbers show a small improvement at the cost of a large increase in current, that would seem to indicate to me that the older emitters are not performing as efficiently as the newer ones, so the newer ones may have a lot more to offer than what we are currently seeing. What if you could give the newer emitter enough voltage in order to actually get up to 6A? It may blow away the older emitter by a large margin. We just don’t know yet.

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DB Custom
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The new emitter is more efficient, gotta be a better thing, we just have to adapt a little.

The Courui D01 Bighead has multiple cells, I bet the forward voltage wouldn't matter so much in that situation. Or the Olight SR-90 Intimidator, with it's 6 cells and proprietary battery pack...that should tweak the new emitter. I might try one of the new U3's in the Courui and see what it does. I'm not messing with the Intimidator! Wink

The lower amperage is a good thing, light runs cooler, cell lasts longer, we just aren't seeing the blazing high lumens output. 

Hmmmm, the K50 is regulated, takes 4 cells, should be a likely candidate right? Would the higher Vf requirement hold back a regulated driver?

I'll measure Vf on this older U2 in the Javelot today, see what it's doing at 6.37A. And I'll de-dome a XM-L2 U3 1A in the Courui, see what it does in that multi-cell light. 

I'll be back...

gaston01
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That will be capable of doing this flashlight with led to more than 5A Smile think will be near 300kcd ?? Shocked

who will be the first? :bigsmile:

Sorry for my bad English…

bibihang
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DavidEF wrote:
I thought his numbers showed that the higher performance of the older emitters was because of the lower Vf, and the limitations of a 4.2V cell. In that case, I think a parallel set of cells could help the newer emitters a bit. But, a buck driver with some cells in series would be even better. I’d like to see what the newer emitters are capable of when you give them enough headroom for their higher Vf requirements, rather than trying to run them off a single cell.

Edit: I meant to say, too, that since these numbers show a small improvement at the cost of a large increase in current, that would seem to indicate to me that the older emitters are not performing as efficiently as the newer ones, so the newer ones may have a lot more to offer than what we are currently seeing. What if you could give the newer emitter enough voltage in order to actually get up to 6A? It may blow away the older emitter by a large margin. We just don’t know yet.


Yes, actually I meant the same thing that having higher peak current of the older emitters allow them to have the advantage putting out more lumens, maybe I didn’t phrase it well. Big Smile

By using batteries in series and a good buck driver we can overcome the high Vf problem of the newer emitters but unfortunately I think that is just about it. Don’t forget the emitter will probably be killed at just 5.5-5.7A – We just can’t drive them any higher than that don’t we?

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bibihang wrote:
DavidEF wrote:
I thought his numbers showed that the higher performance of the older emitters was because of the lower Vf, and the limitations of a 4.2V cell. In that case, I think a parallel set of cells could help the newer emitters a bit. But, a buck driver with some cells in series would be even better. I’d like to see what the newer emitters are capable of when you give them enough headroom for their higher Vf requirements, rather than trying to run them off a single cell.

Edit: I meant to say, too, that since these numbers show a small improvement at the cost of a large increase in current, that would seem to indicate to me that the older emitters are not performing as efficiently as the newer ones, so the newer ones may have a lot more to offer than what we are currently seeing. What if you could give the newer emitter enough voltage in order to actually get up to 6A? It may blow away the older emitter by a large margin. We just don’t know yet.


Yes, actually I meant the same thing that having higher peak current of the older emitters let them have the advantage to put out more lumens, maybe I didn’t phrase it well. Big Smile

By using batteries in series and a good buck driver we can overcome the high Vf problem of the newer emitters but unfortunately I think that is just about it. Don’t forget the emitter will probably be killed at just 5.5-5.7A – We just can’t drive them any higher than that don’t we?

Yes, but we just don’t know yet how it all works out – whether the new LED’s will ultimately give us more bang for our buck or less. If a slightly higher Vf and a much lower amp draw can translate into an equal or better lumen output, we will have won on lm/w efficiency and total performance. We then would just have to figure out how to satisfy the higher Vf requirement so that we get all that we can out of them. At the end of the day, it’s lumens we’re looking for, not amps.

The Cycle of Goodness: “No one prospers without rendering benefit to others”
- The YKK Philosophy

DB Custom
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I put an XM-L2 U3 1A in my Courui just now. De-domed it so it's a same for same comparison. And with 3 25R cells taking up the slack, the de-domed new emitter makes 1497 lumens at 4.92A at the emitter. Forward Voltage is 3.958. 

I figure that should be something like 1700-1800 lumens with the dome on, so it's pretty close to performing the same output and at considerably lower amperage still. Sounds like a winner to me, given the right light. Wink

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DBCstm wrote:

I put an XM-L2 U3 1A in my Courui just now. De-domed it so it’s a same for same comparison. And with 3 25R cells taking up the slack, the de-domed new emitter makes 1497 lumens at 4.92A at the emitter. Forward Voltage is 3.958. 

I figure that should be something like 1700-1800 lumens with the dome on, so it’s pretty close to performing the same output and at considerably lower amperage still. Sounds like a winner to me, given the right light. Wink


Thanks, Dale! You may have already said somewhere what the other LED was doing in the Courui, but just to keep it all together, could you do something like:

Old Emitter – Vf=X1, Amps=Y1, Lm=Z1
New Emitter – Vf=X2, Amps=Y2, LM=Z2

So we can see how they stack up?

The Cycle of Goodness: “No one prospers without rendering benefit to others”
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DB Custom
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I measured Vf and amperage before I pulled the XM-L2 U2 1D de-domed out of the Courui and it was at 3.576Vf, but the amperage was low because the cells were at 4.15V. I should have the fresh cell lumens numbers written down here somewhere, now where did I put my.....

DB Custom
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...that if one of the higher voltage LG cells were used in this Javelot (4.35V vs 4.2V) it might actually see a decent bump in output in stock form. I don't have any of those cells, but surely someone can check it out to see if that ups the ante on this new emitter.

Maybe someone with the Special Edition X6 with low numbers can try the LG cell and see what shakes?

gaston01
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DBCstm wrote:

I put an XM-L2 U3 1A in my Courui just now. De-domed it so it’s a same for same comparison. And with 3 25R cells taking up the slack, the de-domed new emitter makes 1497 lumens at 4.92A at the emitter. Forward Voltage is 3.958. 

I figure that should be something like 1700-1800 lumens with the dome on, so it’s pretty close to performing the same output and at considerably lower amperage still. Sounds like a winner to me, given the right light. Wink

Good job! Smile I’m curious… how many kcd with this configuration?

Thanks

Sorry for my bad English…

DB Custom
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I just went through 40 pages of mods and testing since mid August and don't seem to have anything on this Courui. I know I fairly recently put the ramping firmware in it, can't believe I didn't do the full onslaught of tests. 

That couple of months when I was going through the concussion wreaked havoc...

Edit: Just tested throw and it hasn't suffered too much...when I first got the Courui set up with the AR lens and all it was doing 365Kcd. The test I just ran with the XM-L2 U3 1A emitter showed 348.5Kcd with 1180.68M throw. Lost some, but not horribly, and it's most likely burning less amps doing it.

DavidEF
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DBCstm wrote:

I just went through 40 pages of mods and testing since mid August and don’t seem to have anything on this Courui. I know I fairly recently put the ramping firmware in it, can’t believe I didn’t do the full onslaught of tests. 

That couple of months when I was going through the concussion wreaked havoc…

Edit: Just tested throw and it hasn’t suffered too much…when I first got the Courui set up with the AR lens and all it was doing 365Kcd. The test I just ran with the XM-L2 U3 1A emitter showed 348.5Kcd with 1180.68M throw. Lost some, but not horribly, and it’s most likely burning less amps doing it.


So, the new Cree emitters are going to be an improvement for multi-cell lights, but possibly a step backward for single-cell lights because of higher Vf. Sound about right?

The Cycle of Goodness: “No one prospers without rendering benefit to others”
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DB Custom
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I don't know if "a step backward" is the right descriptive, as efficiency has been gained. Not quite the output, for much longer run time. Gains, with caveats.

Edit: Keep in mind too that this is just my findings. It's been argued that my results are not exemplary.

gaston01
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DBCstm wrote:

I just went through 40 pages of mods and testing since mid August and don’t seem to have anything on this Courui. I know I fairly recently put the ramping firmware in it, can’t believe I didn’t do the full onslaught of tests. 

That couple of months when I was going through the concussion wreaked havoc…

Edit: Just tested throw and it hasn’t suffered too much…when I first got the Courui set up with the AR lens and all it was doing 365Kcd. The test I just ran with the XM-L2 U3 1A emitter showed 348.5Kcd with 1180.68M throw. Lost some, but not horribly, and it’s most likely burning less amps doing it.

Many thanks Smile Is hardly found values of Courui mods :~

Sorry for my bad English…

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I don’t know how this plays in the mix, but it looks like a 6 volt input on this driver.

Copied from Olight website :

“The specifications in the chart to the right claim to ANSI/NEMA FL1-2009 Standards. Tests are performed with 2x CR123A 1500mAh batteries.”

DB Custom
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You know, I totally forgot about that! It can take 2 CR123A cells and is supposed to come with an adapter sleeve to keep them tight in the battery tube. I didn't get any accessories with the light as it's a review light. It's supposed to come with spare o-rings, CR123A adapter, lanyard, and holster.

So the driver is a buck driver and that does explain a lot. When looking at it paired with a high Vf emitter, it explains just about everything. My lumens tests showed a lot lower than theirs and that's because they used the 6V results. I should've brought up the website when doing the review and had some of their information available to me.

Thank you for pointing that out.

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As a “Stock Light”, Do you need to use a Sony 18650VTC5 or another high drain battery to get MAXIMUM OUTPUT?

I wouldn’t think so but I needed to ask!

,Thanks.

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Environment molds a person. Perseverance changes them. 

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The regulation seems to keep the light's amperage consistent whether using a high capacity high discharge cell or a full blown high discharge capable cell like the Sony VT C5.

It's just been brought to my attention that the light also accepts 2x CR123A cells with an included adapter sleeve. So the driver is a Buck driver. I didn't test it with these cells as I didn't get the adapter sleeve or Owners manual/Instruction sheet with the light.

Banggood has a sale going on for this light now, M2X-UT Javelot , I just checked and it's 25% off the regular $119.95 price.

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DBCstm wrote:

The regulation seems to keep the light’s amperage consistent whether using a high capacity high discharge cell or a full blown high discharge capable cell like the Sony VT C5.

It’s just been brought to my attention that the light also accepts 2x CR123A cells with an included adapter sleeve. So the driver is a Buck driver. I didn’t test it with these cells as I didn’t get the adapter sleeve or Owners manual/Instruction sheet with the light.

Banggood has a sale going on for this light now, M2X-UT Javelot , I just checked and it’s 25% off the regular $119.95 price.

ok,,,Thanks,,,,,,,,,,What about a standard 3400mAh genuine Panasonic cell?? Like Orbtronic,Olight, KeepPower. E’Tac ect? Those are the ones I am referring to,again,as a STOCK light, not modded.

Thanks

Solitude breeds contemplation which creates clarity. 

Environment molds a person. Perseverance changes them. 

                                                                   WOLFDOG 

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