So much crap

haha, thanks for the feedback guys. Just to be clear, this was more of a rhetorical rant. It's similar to a rhetorical questions in that it doesn't really have a solution :D

I was just venting certain annoyances but I'm fully aware of all the nuances and what I need to do to keep the hobby alive and exciting. I was mainly just pointing out there really is mostly crap out there in the budget flashlight world, however, that doesn't mean I'm gonna switch over to the dark side that is overpriced, elitist - but still made in China - flashlights. You just have to mix things up and make new challenges for yourself. I also agree about following the new product introductions, like LED evolution up to XM-L, triple XM-L, etc. But then you run into the tv/computer dilemma: There's always something newer and better right after you buy the so-called 'latest and greatest' :D

I do ...

it's silly to think that a 20% increase in efficiency really means anything .

You know the inverse square law that says to see a doubling of light you must increase power times 4

so 250 lumens is half as bright as 1000 lumens ..

The emitter has reached the end of it's battery capability on a 18650 and there isn't anything new on the horizion for batteries ...

In my humble opinion you ought to be focused on hosts and builds forget the emitter....

what does the body look like and feel like .

is it a solid platform for modding ? heatsink/pill,clicky

the next thing is U.I. or driver...

emitters are the easiest thing to change and should be the least of anyones concern.

even not modded a q3 with a nice tint is unbeatable

140 lumens which is 3 times as much as a surefire /cop light 8 years ago is one seriously nice amount of light .

I agree with you that their prices on the older stuff should be lowered to move it out quicker but Asians have a different way of moving product and it doesn't involve drastic reductions ..to blow it out like they do in other parts of the world .

My first question to you would be …What are you calling crap ?? because to say all budget lights are crap is somewhat overstated …being the master of overstatemnets …I know … So specifically … what lights do you have , or have specific knowledge of and think are …crap ?

what lights do you not like ? and why.

For some people that's the answer. If you don't want to spend the money and just want a bright light, then budget is the way to go. If you want infinitely variable output, programmable UI, maximum performance, etc., you have to go higher end. In fact pretty much if you want anything other than a reverse clicky that switches between 5 modes (sometimes 3 modes, but usually still includes strobe) you have to go up market.

I do think there are just a ton of very similar budget lights out right now. There are so many big XM-L lights and triple XM-L lights out right now. Not particularly budget at $50 or so, but the JETBeam triple XM-L is something like $500? I'm surprised at the number of XR-E budget lights still out there.

Personally I can't justify spending more than $60 or $70 on any flashlight. So a lot of that stuff is out of range for me. I did throw my name in on the Dino Sunwayman deal if it comes to fruition. I'll believe it when I have it in my hands and it works the way it is supposed to (not a Sunwayman reject or fake).

Another aspect of it is I don't want 100 flashlights. I was buying a lot trying out different things, but I have just about everything now. So it takes something pretty special to get my attention now. Other than the Tank007, I haven't bought much lately. The last light was Manafont's fake Lumapower MRV host as a home to a neutral XM-L I had, so that was mostly a mod (and turned out pretty nicely, though bigger than I want to usually carry and not a whole lot better than a P60).

I think it depends on what "expensive" means to you.

Most of my lights work OK, but on many of those it took some tweaking to get rid of flickering or just plain old 'no Workie' issues. One (Trustfire F15) flat out died. I'm not a big proponent of $100+ lights (i own one) but lights in the $30-50 range seem to give me more satisfaction than lights in the $10-25 range, and I have not had to repair any of the $30-50 lights.

Does that make me a CPF'er?

Another take on this is the guys who whine and complain when their $15 Chinese light doesn't work like they thought it should. Jeez, that is why it is called CCC, cheap Chinese crap. A certain percentage of them (my experience is about 1 out of 5) don't work as advertised. It's still a bargain for the other 80%, but the failure rate is sort of a given.

I'm with Langcjl.

I still have a superb Fenix TK11-R2 that I rarely use, since my newer budget lights give me more satisfaction. I would have three more Fenixes laying around if it wasn't for my family, who do not care if the flashlights I gave them don't muster more than a couple hundred lumens.

I'm not sure how overstated "all budget lights are crap" is. That's why I find it difficult not to evangelize hosts like an L2i, for example. Sure, it's not $3 but top quality like that for under $10 is a hard find. Every time I ever got talked into a six dollar 502 or 503B, the quality was abysmal. I'll take an L2 for $11.50 over junk at half the price all day long.

Foy defines "budget" as not paying $89 for a 120 lumen Surefire 6P or $75 for a Led Lenser with an XR-E. I actually used to think $50 for a Quark was a great deal.

Like many here however, I am looking for something different. I already have two L2s and three L2Ps so, when something like an L2T comes along, it's pretty cool.

Foy

+102

Actually, this whole thread raises a question.

Is it just a love of lights that brings you here or is it a love of lights and a love of getting a real bargain?

For me the latter is just as important to me in everything I do. I am, as my screen name says, very much a ValueForMoney addict That's why I always overclock my PC's, not excessively these days but at least to get the performance of a processor costing twice what I paid. I feel the same about lights.

How could I have forgotten modding. Modding, which I could have only done with the help of members here, is one of my favorite things about the budget light hobby. I have swapped xm-l's into some AA lights and hearing people go 'WOW-THATS AN AA LIGHT?' is rewarding. Swapping in a preferred tint or just customizing a light the way you want is a very enjoyable aspect of this hobby that I forgot to mention.

When it comes to the part that is getting old, I mean that I am just sick of seeing 100 variations of the C8, or of the trustfire tr-1200 body with different names on it. I LOVE to watch new lights pop up, but after seeing all the anusfire and fandyfire versions flooding the sites I tend to frequent, it just gets old. However, the occasional 'original' gem pops up and it is all worth it again.

VFMaddict raises a good point. Maybe Value should be a target as well as or in addition to Budget.

I have bought some $30 lights that I thought had great value

I have purchased some $15 lights that were a terrible value.

Although the shadow tc6 that I bought was in the neighborhood of $50 shipped I Feel for the price, it is the best made 'budget ’ light I have ever purchased:)

I feel the same. But there is a "but'. It seems not everybody got the same package, if you think of all the accessories it's well forth it. Since some got no accessories at all, the light should have been cheaper with $8. or stuff like.

Let's rename this board to Value Light Forum.

If you think about it, it's good value what we are after, not just low price, right?

I agree with the poster who mentions not being interesting in seeing hundreds of copies and variations of the C8 (as an example). I also am like the poster who says that they don't want to own 100 lights.

With few exceptions I haven't paid more than $30 for a flashlight. I haven't paid more than $40 for anything other than a dive light and for some of my headlamps.

I think it's the lack of choices if you can solder that can get frustrating something. It's finding something different. There are too many lights that all have clickies, sharp bezels, strobes, etc. On the other hand find what you want is part of the fun.

There are ways to modify without soldering as well....just different modifications.

I love buying a light for $22 and have be super reliable with no contact issues etc for years. But the problem is when you buy 4 different lights for friends and family and they all develop issues over time. I wish I had just recommended something more expensive but more reliable.

As regards to buying the latest LEDs, I agree with Boaz. Sometimes a better reflector and glass lens with a better circuit makes for a killer light rather than a poorly put together XM-L light.

My Romisen RC-U4 is still kicking with an XR-E @ 1amp and is marginally less bright that my XP-G lights driven at 1.5amps.

It's ok to skip a few LED generations, a few percentage points in efficiency sometimes just isn't work it.

Same old budget lights got you down???? Just buy some nice budget knifes like Sanrenmu 710 or an Enlan EL02 or just anything that sparks your attention from those manufactures.

Good value is the key. I always try to get the most useful item for decent price. Sometimes decent price is high but I always try to keep the price/quality ratio high.

I would probably buy 100$-200$ light if needed and would knew it to be great value for me.

Modding is my main enjoyment-I'm more hooked on doing the work more than the lights, but I do enjoy my handiwork!

Yup-C8 and same old TR-1200 hosts have gotten completely boring. If something has that host, I just move on.

Rich

My advice is to be patient. I know that is hard, but it's part of the game. Why own multiple flashlights that are basically the same thing with a slightly different look? Maybe I look at it from a poor man's perspective, but once you own an XM-L light or two, why buy more? Why not wait for the next CREE?

My personal buying routine is... "What is missing from my stable of lights?" If I have plenty of EDC lights, plenty of throwers, plenty of (insert another type here), then I don't need another light. I know I am probably breaking some Flashaholic rule, but I just don't see the logic in buying more lights just to buy them. How many lights can you possibly use in normal life? If you are buying them for Shelf Queens then who cares what the light is? Might as well put a candle on the shelf if you are buying a Shelf Queen. And just like the flashlight, don't ever actually use the candle. It's not for use, it's for the shelf.

But then again I'm just an average Flashaholic that loves to use my lights. I can't imagine buying lights just because they were "a good deal."

YES!! Please get in touch. richpalm(at)dejazzd(dot)com