- The Fake-Cree LED Awareness Thread - The new "low" in Budget lights.

Richard… Could you elaborate on where and how you got these fake LEDs?

Most of them have come in lights, from a few different sources. I got a batch of Small Sun ZY-T08s with fake LEDs (I didn't sell them, I used them to modify, but that was the last straw and why I don't carry it anymore--I think I still have all of the fake LEDs I pulled out of them). I also got some random headlamps with them as well. I will take some pictures tonight and post them here. I don't know if I can find the XP-G2, but I know I have a few of the XM-L fakes on-hand in a baggy somewhere.

They are Not fake. They are just… Different.

Think of how many millions of lights they will ship out with clone leds in them. You know, I have always felt the aluminum used in Chinese lights was sub-par and it's been that way forever, so why not have everything sub-par? Drivers with just one resistor and no modes, leds that only put out a few lumens, plastic lenses, plastic reflectors. Heck, as long as they sell...

I'm glad I have someone like RMM to buy components from. At least I know they are legit.

Don’t get those mixed in with your lumens packaged in those tiny little baggies. People expect 100% pure lumens. They dont want to buy lumens that have been stomped on. :smiley:

Lol don't worry, they're nowhere near the others. The others are all in tapes, individually labeled baggies, in separate sealed containers according to type. There won't be any mixups. The bad ones are all in a crappy baggy somewhere still on the MCPCBs.

http://www.ledsmagazine.com/articles/2015/06/cree-restructures-led-business-in-face-of-mid-power-onslaught.html

"Cree has announced restructuring in its LED manufacturing business that has been driven by higher than anticipated erosion on packaged LED selling prices..."

"Swoboda also briefly discussed the LED-based lighting division at Cree. Overall, he said the company would reduce its focus on LED components and general consumer lighting and shift focus to higher-end consumer and commercial lighting products. He said lower LED and consumer LED bulb revenue is the reason for lower projections."

From the same website, different article http://www.ledsmagazine.com/articles/2015/08/cree-and-epistar-sign-major-led-patent-cross-licensing-agreement.html

"LED manufacturers Cree and Taiwan-based Epistar have announced a global intellectual property (IP) cross-licensing agreement covering all nitride-based-LED patents owned by each and some non-nitride-based patents as well"

"The new deal does not mark the first time Cree has struck a deal with an LED manufacturer based in Taiwan. Last year, Cree invested in Lextar, another company with mid-power expertise. At the time of that announcement, Cree said it would source LEDs from Lextar."

My take after reading that article is that Cree will not be going after the low end of the market, bur rather the high power and higher margin portion. They can’t compete with other manufacturers as LED chips are becoming a commodity. In fact the article mentions the CREE branded LED T8 florescent bulb replacements that we see in Home Depot put out by Cree actually have LED chips other than Cree’s in an effort to reduce costs. Some of those bulbs are now on recall.

I think the days of buying budget lights with real XM-L’s and other high end Cree’s is just about over. The cheaper knock off chips have gotten “good enough” Not good enough for enthusiasts like ourselves, but good enough for the mass market. After all, just how bright does a flashlight need to be anyway?

The good news, if you want to call it that, is only very expensive lights and modded lights will be the highest performers. Historically that is how it has always been, it’s just that for the past few years one could by a pretty good performing light for a relatively cheap price. Years from now, looking back at that period of time, it will appear to us as just a blip in the history of LED lights. Prices will continue to fall and the output of the clone chips will rise, probably to the level of the current higher cost Cree’s. Of course by then, we will be building and modding our own lights with more expensive even more powerful and higher end LED’s.

As veterens of this forum, when newbies join and ask about the LED’s in their lights, we should not disparage their purchase if they contain (and most certainly will) the fake LED’s. We should point out the differences and show them that there are even better options.
I believe the market for low end lights has already been lost and so does Cree.

I did a current/output test yesterday on the leds claimed to be XP-L's (at least they do not even look like XP-L) that were in the Bestfire lights sold by dx and Fasttech. They show ~XP-E2 performance (but with a XP-G size die and even larger apparent lightsource). They are not bad leds but far from high end. When I'm back from this weekend away with the family I will post more about it.

Hey Richard. I’m wondering if you might request some samples from this latticebright outfit? I would, but they are likely to want an actual business to send them to.

Here is a comparison shot of the two "XM-L" LEDs. In person, especially installed in a light, the difference is much less noticeable.

Wow. How about output…how do the two compare???

The biggest noticeable difference i can see there is it looks to be a smaller die on the LB clone on the left.

I see square conductive bases under the round wire ends on the phosphor on the Lattice,plain round on Cree.Then two conductive strips(brass?)going up from the two “mark 1”silver squares on the bottom corners.The Cree has a Sanskrit epic poem written on he green base :slight_smile:
I have a feeling it is best to start practicing recognising the differences now,as the game of cat and mouse,or leapfrog, begins.The best clones can only get harder to spot in the future.

Very disturbing that these clones are heading to market. I can say from the picture that the bond wire orientation appears to be different from the original cree RGBW color leds.

If the led dies are viewed from the perspective of the red die in the upper left corner:

  1. Original Cree led bond wires (and grid) are orientated on top and bottom of the individual dies.
  2. Fake led bond wires (and grid) are orientated on left and right of at least three of the individual dies if the picture is to be believed.

A recent ebay purchase conforms with the original…. at least for now :slight_smile:

We all know the forum is watched by a large number of Chinese companies, I do not see why LB hasn't already tracked back this thread and reading how to improve the cloning process of CREE LEDs.

That’s what I meant by cat and mouse and leapfrog.But,they do not need to fool all of the people all of the time,that’s too dear!90% would do - we just need to be in the 10% in the know.In the end , it is just an evolution of °°°°fire batteries , we don’t touch them,but 90% think they are great value , just like i did at the start :zipper_mouth_face:

Time to ask Sb to add a private subform. Perhaps requiring 100 posts or being a member for two years.

Thank you for posting those macro pictures. I've checked headlight I got from eBay today claimed it is CREE XM-L T6. Shurely it was LatticeBright led in there. Will see what the seller has to say on this. The LatticeLight led is just a little bit less bright. The PCB is also different than most of others.

Wow