Nichia 219C, testing a 5000K 83CRI emitter, comparing with a XP-G2 S4 2B and other leds

Flashlight Modding and DIY Parts
253

Same here. Just added one to a C8 (replaces an DD XM-L2). With a stacked 7135 driver (~2.7A) its pushing around 35K lux (XP-G2 in S4 bin should be around 38K with the same setup). With the linear driver its still pushing 2A with the battery down to 3.5V (1/3 of capacity left) so looks like the low voltage will help it stay in regulation for quite some time. I think I will be adding these to a number of Eagle Eye X6s and Convoy C8s for friends and family.

Can’t same I’m blown away by them (was hoping for a little more throw) but they are a nice alternative to XP-G2 and would be excellent for headlights, worklights etc. Cheap to.

254

Did you get the 219C on a MCPCB, or reflow it onto one? Did you have to cut any parts down to fit?

255

I got the bare LED's from Richard, so I had to reflow.

I had a spare board that was the same diameter & thickness as the original, so I just flowed the 219c & it was a straight swap over, although I took the opportunity to replace the lead wires with 22awg silicone wires. I re-used the original thin insulating gasket.

Note that the board is very thin (1mm*14mm), compared to most boards (~1.5mm). With such tight clearances in this light, using a thicker board might be an issue if the cell is on the long side.

I couldn't say if a 16mm board will fit - there was plenty of clearance for the 14mm board, but I didn't test a 16mm on the pill.

256

Do you guys think the 219C would hold up DD with a efest 10440? I’m hoping the voltage drop would be enough to keep things stable.

257

The more I look at djozz’s figures, the less confident I am it will work… I think the amps will run away and probably damage the LED… Mmm.

258

The led will be no problem, remember it easily survived 10 amps. The Efest 10440 are great but will not deliver 10A, my wild guess is 4A at start, skyrocketing down from that. The led will be fine but the battery may protest..

259

Ok, I hope that is the case then… I was worried about initial spikes in the current. Thanks for your opinion djozz. If the battery protests - that’s fine! Rather the battery than the LED. I’m only receiving my 219Cs in a few weeks time. I’ll test and give feedback then… maybe somebody else will jump the gun in the meantime :wink:

260

Should be fine, I have a 219C in a light with a FET driver and in the highest mode (basically DD) it did not die with a 25R.

261

Thanks finges… It should probably do over 10 amps with the 25R. For now, Im planning use the 219C only with smaller cells, 18350, 16340 (regulated drivers at around 4 amps) & 10440 (direct driven). For 18650 and up, I’m still sticking with the XP/M range… The 219C with its low forward voltage makes it quite practical with the smaller cells.

262

Imagine these type of forward voltages in the XP/M range LEDs… :slight_smile:

263

I have one from Cutter in a CNQ zoomy host, with 12 x 7135. It’s my brightest one cell light, accept possibly for my BLF A6, and probably my best flashlight now. The spot is not much smaller than that of the same host and lens with an XM-L2, and is bigger than it was with a de-domed XM-L. This is not a small die. I hope someone finds an easy way to dedome it.

264

I tried a 219C on a FET driver with spring bypasses and it hated me! Tint changed in seconds and dimmed, I got it shut off before it died but it just didn’t like my set-up… I was showing around 9A in that first few seconds but the meter was climbing.
A PanPD would run it around 7A and all was well. Just can’t use the top cells.

Edit: Tried again. Showing 8.55A it ran 12 seconds and the tint suddenly warmed and started shifting erratically and I killed power. This is in an A6, bare, with TK’s firmware and pulling off a 30Q.

265

Thanks for sharing that Dale, that’s good to know. After the tint changed, did it return back to normal or is it permanently altered?

I just put together a A6 with a Nichia 219C (on Noctigon) with a LD-1. I like the results but is gets super hot pretty quickly. I’m not sure how practical it is in a light with so little mass to draw heat away. Then again, I don’t think it’s any worse than a BLF A6.

The hot spot is smaller and more defined than the XP-L and it is more intense. It seems to throw a little further but I don’t have a way to measure. Tint is pretty nice as well, but not as nice as the XP-L 3D.

I’m going to remove the LED and try it in either a S8 with a SMO to see if I can get a little more throw.

266

So far the tint appears normal with a lesser cell. I just can’t use a 30Q or 35A or LG HE-4 or….

267

Put together an A6 with a 5000k 219C and I have to say I’m pretty disappointed. Compared to my other A6 with a V2 3C XPL-HI the 219C seems inferior in every way. On a NCR18650GA it pull 5.5 amps, 1 more than the XPL-HI, to produce ~10% less light, ~35% less lux at 5m, and has a cooler tint.

The lower output isn’t unexpected; it’s the lack of throw and tint that got me.

268

I just did this combination in my Tool build, my multimeter says 2.8A, however I know it’s more as it’s visibly brighter on shorting the leads. My guess is 3.5-4A. The 219C can take it but requires a DTP star as it goes blue if fed that much on a “normal” star. The efest gets quite warm if left for 30+s tho, but seems OK.

I have both the 4000k and the 5000k 219C now. I prefer the tint of the 5000k as it’s more neutral to my eyes, whereas the 4000k is leaning towards warm. The 5000k is quite similar in tint to the famous 92 typical CRI 4500k 219B, however the reds (in both the 4000k and 5000k 219Cs) are visibly more subdued than the 219B.

Hence Nichia’s guaranteed minimums (lower than typical values) of:
219B: Ra 90, R9 50
219C: Ra 80, R9 0
Ra being the aggregate score of the 8 colours used to calculate CRI and R9 being the colour “Natural Red” which is sadly not used in the CRI calculation. R9 values of 50+ are extremely useful in surgical lighting as many tissues and blood are shades of red.

EDIT (source): Why the LED R9 value isn’t important – LeapFrog Lighting

269

^

Wow, really good info in the above post t&b. Thank you :)

270

In case you didn't see them, I posted some comparison beamshots in "My Bike Light Thread" post #46 & $47. I modded a Nitefighter BT40S that came stock with NW XP-G2's (which I had compared tint with other lights and found to be 4C or very very close) over to Nichia 219C's. I then compared these Nichia's to my favorite XM-L2 5B1 tint.

(So I did get around to using them without letting them sit on my workbench for months!)

-Garry

271

Hi,

I was able to get in on RMM’s recent 219C special offer, with three 219Cs mounted on a Noctigon along with Carclo optics.

My order from RMM also included the MTN-17DD FET driver loaded with Toykeeper’s excellent firmware / UI, the Convoy S2 host, the S2 copper spacer/heatsink, and Samsung INR18650-30Q battery.

Last weekend, I assembled the above S2 with the triple nichia 219C noctigon, the S2 copper heatsink/spacer, and did a switch and spring bypass (with 18 gauge wire) on the S2’s clicky. The MTN 17DD driver already had a spring bypass done by Richard with copper braid.

I kept the stock 17DD driver wires provided by Richard to attach the driver to the nichia LEDs on the noctigon. I think these are 22 gauge wires, and I am contemplating replacing these wires with something heavier, given that the projected amount of current draw with this setup (over 10 amps?) is in excess of 22 gauge wire’s rated maximum current carrying capacity. I’d like to use 18 gauge wires to attach the driver to the LEDs, but these may be too thick to solder onto the driver’s + and - pads. Additionally, the thinner 22 gauge wire, however, may be acting as a resistive “safety valve” to limit current to the nichias, and it may be better to retain the smaller gauge wires provided they don’t eventually act like fuses when running on turbo.

So far, I have run this light configuration on turbo for no longer than 15~20 seconds or so - I’m not yet brave enough to run it on turbo much longer. :wink: . I’ve done this quite a few times over the last 3 days, and the 219Cs seem to be taking it just fine so far.

It’s output is truly stunning on turbo!

To my eyes, I don’t see any tint anomalies when running on turbo, just that pleasant nichia whiteness.

I don’t have a way of measuring the light output, but doing a ceiling bounce with the above S2 configuration running on turbo lights up an entire bedroom! I have a Trustfire X100 (9 LEDs) that appears, to my eyes, to have similar ceiling bounce performance. The x100 light is supposed to emit roughly 3000 OTF Lumens.

On turbo, the S2 copper spacer/heat sink and S2 flashlight body get warm pretty fast (in about 7 seconds or so), but the heat sink/spacer appears to be doing a good job at removing what must be significant amounts of heat density. This seems to help keep the nichias from burning up (at least for short turbo bursts for roughly 15 seconds).

The 30Q battery seems to be one hell of cell when coupled with the 17DD+FET driver!

I don’t think I have a way to measure the amount of current that must be flowing in the setup. My meter has a 10 amp maximum capacity. I hope to investigate means to measure the current in this setup a bit more this weekend. Don’t know that I’ll be successful, but will post any findings or observations.

272

I just tested this with a KeepPower 18350 in my S2+ with one of RMM’s triple 219C’s from the recent sale.

I used a clamp on ammeter and some 12ga stranded copper (5 inches long) from negative on battery to side of tube.

I got 11.2 A initially, from an 18350…

I held it for about 10 seconds until it got too hot, it was down to 10.7 A

Holy smokes these 219C’s are awesome for pulling amps… That is about 3.5A for each emitter and according to Djozz’s chart in the OP, about 3000 LED lumen.

As for the heat, ten seconds was all I could handle holding it in one hand. I will have to adjust the firmware. With the XP-G2 S4 2B triple prior, I had it start to step down at 15 seconds, taking about 35 more seconds to ramp down to 50%…. That will not do for these little heat generators.

The tint is outstanding….