Convoy L6... XHP70 Beast!

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djburkes
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DB Custom wrote:
Decided to play around some with the new L6, recut the emitter shelf to accept a 31mm MaxToch copper DTP mcpcb for a new top level XHP-70 from Cutter. P2 1C binning, rated at 1830 lumens as compared to 1710? of the N4. Then I did a wee bump on the driver by stacking a R140 on top of the two R082 sense resistors (reducing resistance from .041 to .031) for an increase tail amperage reading from 4.83A to 6.33A, it’s now doing 4505 lumens out the front. Sweet! Smile The L6 is a very nice light, love the design and overall perspectives of it, Simon nailed it with the reflector, no donut hole, good hot spot area from the big 4die emitter, gotta love that, his first (I think) in this arena and very well done.

Initially I was seeing a low of 17 lumens, Turbo at 3500. I’m not at my notes at the moment but I think 2nd level was around 249 and third was 1500. Low, being only 17 lumens, really shows the lack of dark shadow in the center. Hot spot is about all you get in this mode. Wink Very cool.

Side by side with the S70, also modified with spring bypasses (Simon already did these on the stock L6) the hot spot area is a bit tighter, no donut hole in the L6 beam but my S70 shows a definite shadow in the center which is somewhat deceptive as the mind expects more intensity in the middle of the beam, not less. For all practical purposes though the donut hole is or can be difficult to see. Shining it on anything really solid, especially lighter in color, at a distance of out to 50 yds or so, moving the light around, the dark center is very obvious. Shining the S70 directly at, say, a rabbit at 30 yds, you look at the rabbit and not the light quality, so you don’t notice really as the rabbit is darker anyway. So it depends on what you’re shining it on, how you’re using it, as to whether it’s a nuisance in the S70. Also, side by side the L6 is just a visually nicer light. The matte black ano looks more high end compared to the shinier surface of the S70. Reflector surface appears similar in both lights, but the base is executed differently, with the Convoy having a slight taper down toward the emitter while the S70 base is flat. This might be what solved the donut hole issue, not sure exactly. I don’t know that the dark center is enough to truly be disappointed about in the Thorfire light, but the beam profile of the L6 is certainly pleasing and well received. Wink

At any rate, the shadowed center is not present in the L6 so even shining it on pure white fresh snow while scanning, searching, you wouldn’t see that shadow. Wink (like I know all that much about snow! Silly )

I’ll have to get another of these emitters now, as I got this one with the intention of putting it in JDub’s light. lol Sorry Jared, all in the interest of experimentation don’t ya know! Big Smile

I’m gonna be straight up with you guys, my L6, being one of the first 3 out the door, had an issue. This seemed to stem from the non DTP mcpcb that Simon used in these first 3 lights. Replacing the mcpcb/emitter made the issue go away. But it was weird as it involved the side switch not working the levels consistently, like the output would get stuck in Turbo. Removing the emitter and putting it on a SinkPad didn’t solve the issue. Replacing the emitter with a new one on a SinkPad made the light work as expected and I haven’t seen the glitch since. I don’t understand it, but it definitely seems related to that initial mcpcb/emitter combination. JDub’s own light was one of these 3, and it didn’t exhibit this problem. Kawi’s L6 was the other of these 3 and I don’t believe he had the issue either. So I’m assuming the emitter was shorting on the mcpcb on this particular sample. I tested the momentary switch and it was perfect. I tested the driver outside the light, running an MT-G2, and ran the modes by touching the two solder bumps on the driver where the switch wires go with tweezers, worked flawlessly (I, uh, might have played with it a bit long doing this, the MT-G2 started to smoke a bit, free floating and with dust on it from sitting on my workbench for a while. Oops!). All the testing I could do pointed at the emitter/mcpcb itself, and changing that pair out solved the issue.

A note on the big emitter. The XHP-70 has divided positive and negative contacts on the bottom. This is what allows it to be used in 12V configuration. I find it easier to use too much solder paste and cause a bridge under the emitter with this set-up. AND, everybody needs to be aware that in 12V configuration the negative contacts are NOT separated or isolated from the ground… they share the thermal pad to make it work and the thermal pad is grounded on the emitter shelf on any light that has ano cleared from this shelf. Something to be aware of, as a 12V set-up this way could be shorted at ground and only run in direct drive, bypassing the driver. (I say this for those that like to play with a light and do mods, this emitter requires paying a bit more attention to detail) So I highly recommend getting copper DTP mcpcb’s in the 6V format only for these, the dual format 6V/12V SinkPad’s have smaller traces, the split contacts, and are much more finicky.

Convoy L6 XHP-70, a big WIN in my book! Thumbs Up

What would happen if you just removed the resistors and bridged the connection with solder? Also, when your internet starts working right, can you post a pic of how you stacked the resistors. My light will be in today so I’m going to try the resistor mod too.

DB Custom
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I simply removed a R140 from one of the LuckySun D80 drivers and laid it on top of the 2 side by side R082 sense resistors. I was only planning on using one so I stacked it right in the middle, pyramid style. Not much to see, every kid has stacked dominoes or lego’s right?

Dale

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Or like bricks in the wall Thumbs Up

kwarwick
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Here’s a better picture of the 6/12V XHP70 sinkpad board that shows the traces. Looking at the layout of this board, I don’t see the thermal pad being in the circuit at all… am I missing something?

DB Custom
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Thank you for that. I’ve probably seen that before myself and probably took a macro image to get there, might have even sanded off masking to reveal it, but danged if I hadn’t completely forgotten how it worked!

I had one short on me recently and so I assumed, based on the datasheet that shows the thermal pad connecting those two dies in series, that the thermal pad on the star was also doing the same. My mistake, Sorry about that!

Kawiboy is trying to explain to me that it does indeed work, even flat down on a brass pill, and it was boggling my mind trying to figure it out based on the datasheet. Looking closer clears it right up. A maze of tiny traces. DUH!

Blushing

Dale

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I had the same problem when I first got to building lights. I built the driver, reflowed the LED to mcpcb, wired it all up, wouldn’t change modes?? Spent a couple HOURS messing around tore the driver out, tore it down, changed the FET, changed the MCU, tried another New Driver, same thing? Finally looked at the emitter (10X glass) sitting up a little on one end? Rang it out with my DMM, sure enough grounded to the base, F&*K!! Facepalm A simple tiny microscopic sliver of solder jumped the isolation trace, from (-) LED contact to DTP pad? Reflowed , checked with a battery jump, fired up, checked it with the DMM to the mcbpcb base (no continuity) wired it up, good to go!! A year and a half later, same thing, (I forgot about it), and started the same debug process again going nuts for a couple hours, and then it dawned on me, F&*K! Facepalm . Facepalm ,, Facepalm …….. Big Smile

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djburkes
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DB Custom wrote:
I simply removed a R140 from one of the LuckySun D80 drivers and laid it on top of the 2 side by side R082 sense resistors. I was only planning on using one so I stacked it right in the middle, pyramid style. Not much to see, every kid has stacked dominoes or lego’s right?

If you would have stacked a R082 instead of a R140, would it have given you more output?

DB Custom
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Well, yes of course. But I had a R140 and I didn’t have a R082….

Edit: parallel resistor calculator , open it, scroll down a bit to see a 10 resistor pad. You have to clear it each time and re-enter values for accurate results.

Dale

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There are formula’s for converting that resistance value to amperage, using the cells output power and the driver efficiency with the emitter Vf and all that, but I could never in a million years remember all the variables.

Dale

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Thanks a lot, can’t wait to get home and play now!!

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I’ll say this, reason needs be applied.
If you remove the sense resistors and bridge the pads, sure, it’ll make bonkers light output, like nearly 6000 lumens. BUT, it’ll fall super fast, like to the tune of 400-500 lumens the first 30 seconds. So the gains are fleeting, lost to heat and in the long run there will be damage done shortening the life of the emitter and at a very minimum yielding very short run times from your devoutly sought after cells.
Some compromise will bring a balance that can be lived with. The stock resistance is .041. I chose .031 and the resulting 6.36A from Basen cells works for me, as does the 4609 lumens. It doesn’t get burning hot super fast, the cells are still, kinda, in their range, and all is well. You could probably go to .025 and get over 7A and it wouldn’t be so horrible, but 9A or more is really not the best yield here, which is of course completely up to you.

Dale

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I don’t really understand all the resistor stuff but making a few changes there seems like the key. The driver originally had a R100 and a R082. After I talked over with KawiBoy he suggested going to either two R050 or for a little tamer version two R082 resistors. Simons driver guys are still being a little cautious but steadily improving. I can tell you for certain that this driver would have been putting out significantly less without his input. Thanks to Dale and KawiBoy1428 assisting me in the technical side of my advisory role, the L6 is better than it would have been and came out sooner that it would have. Cheers boys! Beer

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maybe DB custom can make us a video walk through just in case some feel comfortable doing what he did to up the lumens a bit? what do you think DB?

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J-Dub74 wrote:
I don’t really understand all the resistor stuff but making a few changes there seems like the key. The driver originally had a R100 and a R082. After I talked over with KawiBoy he suggested going to either two R050 or for a little tamer version two R082 resistors. Simons driver guys are still being a little cautious but steadily improving. I can tell you for certain that this driver would have been putting out significantly less without his input. Thanks to Dale and KawiBoy1428 assisting me in the technical side of my advisory role, the L6 is better than it would have been and came out sooner that it would have. Cheers boys! Beer

I think you guys have done a marvelous job of optimizing:

  • output
  • run times
  • heat build-up
  • form factor (size, battery configuration)
  • style
  • UI (switches and modes)
  • beam (profile and tint)
  • quality construction
  • practicality (all of the above relative to cost)

Kudos to all! BeerBeerBeer

Rule 1-1 as it applies to life, take it as it comes.

djburkes
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I went home during lunch and swapped the emitter to a P2 1C and stacked a R050 resistor on top of the R082s. It seemed to be a bit brighter afterwards. I have a crappy meter so current measurements won’t do me any good.

DB Custom
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dj, is that a big drop of solder paste on leg 2 of the 8 leg component directly above the sense resistors? Need to clear that out.

If you changed to a 2 bin higher emitter AND increased the output that significantly, it should be very noticeably brighter, wide margin!

As in, just how low are your cells?

From .041 ohms resistance to 0.022527, almost half, it should be up over 7A instead of 4.8, marked increase.

Dale

djburkes
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DB Custom wrote:
dj, is that a big drop of solder paste on leg 2 of the 8 leg component directly above the sense resistors? Need to clear that out.

If you changed to a 2 bin higher emitter AND increased the output that significantly, it should be very noticeably brighter, wide margin!

As in, just how low are your cells?

From .041 ohms resistance to 0.022527, almost half, it should be up over 7A instead of 4.8, marked increase.

I just noticed that myself, I didn’t use solder paste…it looks like the thermal paste that was under the stock mcpcb. I’ll have to take her back apart and clean it.

djburkes
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I definitely notice the increase in output…eventually there’ll have to be a fet+1 installed.

SteveBS
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Still waiting for my L6 here in Germany….

atbglenn
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MIne shipped on the 19th. The tracking number still doesn’t work.

gangstead
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I dithered on the N2 5A (4000k) and now it’s out of stock and I feel sad.

thijsco19
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I still haven’t decided if I will buy this one. I really want it but I also have the S70.. And I don’t really have a use for it so it’s purely for collection.

Maybe I will sell the S70 to make room for the L6 Big Smile

HorizontalHunter
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1dash1 wrote:
J-Dub74 wrote:
I don’t really understand all the resistor stuff but making a few changes there seems like the key. The driver originally had a R100 and a R082. After I talked over with KawiBoy he suggested going to either two R050 or for a little tamer version two R082 resistors. Simons driver guys are still being a little cautious but steadily improving. I can tell you for certain that this driver would have been putting out significantly less without his input. Thanks to Dale and KawiBoy1428 assisting me in the technical side of my advisory role, the L6 is better than it would have been and came out sooner that it would have. Cheers boys! Beer

I think you guys have done a marvelous job of optimizing:

  • output
  • run times
  • heat build-up
  • form factor (size, battery configuration)
  • style
  • UI (switches and modes)
  • beam (profile and tint)
  • quality construction
  • practicality (all of the above relative to cost)

Kudos to all! BeerBeerBeer

Me too. Very nicely done.

Bob

Vegetarian: vejiˈte(ə)rēən/noun: old Indian word for lousy hunter.

Yourrid
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I’ve been ready to put an order in for the L6 for a while, and I’ve been keeping up with this thread as much as possible. But I have a few questions that I haven’t found answers to yet.

Questions for you guys:
1) Has anyone received a NW L6 and verified that a direct thermal path MCPCB comes stock?
2) If I wanted to throw in a new driver (like a FET), what do you guys recommend that will still work with the side switch.
3) Any word from Simon on a host yet?

Thanks guys

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It’s a 30mm driver in the L6 so you have to make an adapter if you want to run one of RMM’s 26-20-17mm FETDD drivers. Any ways go to link and start at the Top drop down. Thumbs Up Pick Turbo Timer (drop down) Unless your going with moppdrv? Firmware (drop down) Standard E-switch or Custom E-switch, or moppydrv. (I go Custom on Big Lights usually 4 Levels the standard I believe is 6 evenly spaced.) Then 2 cell+ (drop down) LDO w/o or with 6v LVP http://www.mtnelectronics.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=67_11... Adapter for 30mm to 26mm FETDD driver. 30×26×1mm copper sealing rings (hydraulic seals) Easy enough to do! http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=metric+copper+washers+sealing&_osac... http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=metric+copper+washers&_pgn=2&_skc=50... Some assembly and fitting required Big Smile

KB1428 “Live Life WOT”

leroycp
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Thanks for the tips!!

Yourrid
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KawiBoy1428, that’s one heck of a “how-to” bro. I appreciate it! You should start selling these things. I (for one) would definitely be a buyer Beer

J-Dub74
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Yourrid wrote:
KawiBoy1428, that’s one heck of a “how-to” bro. I appreciate it! You should start selling these things. I (for one) would definitely be a buyer Beer

KawiBoy1428 is an artist. No doubt about it. Unfortunately on your question about the DTP board he is one of three test pilots that did not receive a stock L6 with a DTP board. Simon put a lot of effort into resolving that quickly and to my knowledge (per Simon) only three were shipped without a DTP board. One to me, one to Dale and one to KawiBoy.

Based on everything I know of Convoy and Simon’s work I can confidently say that your light will have a true DTP board. Bait-and-switch is something you will not see with Convoy. If you or anyone gets an L6 without a DTP MCPCB please let me know. Beer

leroycp
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Myself, I agree. I’m still a “new guy” but I have learned to appreciate Convoy products. They keep getting better and better. Very dedicated and dependable company.

Inkidu
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Yourrid wrote:
KawiBoy1428, that’s one heck of a “how-to” bro. I appreciate it! You should start selling these things. I (for one) would definitely be a buyer Beer

+1
Has me thinking about a 22mm MTN-MAX 1A-6A Buck Driver – 5V-18V
12v X 4 amps = 48 watts
A 4s L6 wouldn’t be so hard for me I will soon have two extensions and a 2X ring tube.
Not sure if a 6v/12v SinkPad and/or L6 is up for that much though.
Speaking of that mcpcb the good people of SinkPad sent me a gerber file.

Thanks for any help

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