Review: Cyclone C88 from Int'l Outdoor Store

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Foy
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Between the Cyclone and JM07 . . . .

I guess the biggest difference is that the Cyclone is brighter.

I measured the Cyclone at just under 2.8 amps verses about 2.45 for the JM07.

The Cyclone is a C88 with a 36mm head, the JM07 is slightly smaller at 32mm. (not sure where the manufacturers measure)

The Cyclone reflector is an SMO, the JM07 is OP; not saying either is better, just pointing out the difference.

Acknowledging differences in tint among the same light, a white-wall with my particular JM07 and most of my other lights including the Cyclone, the JM07 is a bit green.  Nothing significant but again, difference from the Cyclone.

These two lights are among the most prized in my collection so, I don't believe one is necessarily better than the other.  My JM07 is the silver edition and sees little use.  It is a very good flashlight.  The nod however, must go to the Cyclone.  I think it is a significant flashlight and if I didn't own either one, the Cyclone easily wins.

 

Foy

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Spivey
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Foy- I think you’d mentioned owning a UF-980L as well. I have one.. it’s bright, has a good beam, modes are fine, it’s competent but a little boring.

Which one do you prefer & why? I keep reading great things about the Cyclone but need a compelling nudge when the 980, to me anyway, seems so similar.

BTW, I enjoy reading your posts, particularly the one where you self critiqued on speaking in the third person, etc. That was an absolute keeper!

Foy
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My feelings about the 980L are well documented and I guess that's part of why I am so impressed with this torch.  It actually measures a little higher on my (admittedly inconsistent/unscientific) light meter, yet pulls a much less insane 2.80 amps and has more heat dissipating mass.  The 980L is lighter to carry but 4+ amps gets mighty warm.

I also like the better run time from the larger 26650 battery.  I realize the change to another battery size is a hurdle for some people and if it is, the Cyclone obliges by running just fine on an 18650 . . . . or, 3 x AA even.

The 980L is slimmer and lighter but the Cyclone is a better flashlight, overall.

 

foylikesthecycloneFoy

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Rusty Joe
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Got my replacement C88 From Intl Outdoors today…and I like it! 26650 makes it sing!

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Bort
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Any idea how the light knows you using the Eneloops vs a lithium battery, i could understand on high the resistance from the holder, but on medium and low i would have expected an identical current draw since the batteries and holder can easily handle it.

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Bort wrote:
Any idea how the light knows you using the Eneloops vs a lithium battery, i could understand on high the resistance from the holder, but on medium and low i would have expected an identical current draw since the batteries and holder can easily handle it.

I believe those drivers give you medium and low based on a percentage of the current on high.  Medium should be 30% and low 5%.  So in Foy's example of tailcap currents, if you take 30% of 1.90A you get 0.57A (Foy measured 0.58A) and 5% of 1.90A gives you 0.095A (Foy measured 0.09A).  So the driver must be basing everything on what it can pull from the battery (or batteries) on high.

-Garry

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Bort
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garrybunk wrote:

Bort wrote:
Any idea how the light knows you using the Eneloops vs a lithium battery, i could understand on high the resistance from the holder, but on medium and low i would have expected an identical current draw since the batteries and holder can easily handle it.

I believe those drivers give you medium and low based on a percentage of the current on high.  Medium should be 30% and low 5%.  So in Foy’s example of tailcap currents, if you take 30% of 1.90A you get 0.57A (Foy measured 0.58A) and 5% of 1.90A gives you 0.095A (Foy measured 0.09A).  So the driver must be basing everything on what it can pull from the battery (or batteries) on high.

-Garry

So that means every time you turn it on it must draw full current for a fraction of a second to calibrate its output levels. I’d be surprised if it did that, as i can’t imagine the designer of the chip would go to that much work and wasting battery energy use just to figure out how much power to provide on lower settings. And where does that power go if its doing it?

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Bort wrote:
garrybunk wrote:

Bort wrote:
Any idea how the light knows you using the Eneloops vs a lithium battery, i could understand on high the resistance from the holder, but on medium and low i would have expected an identical current draw since the batteries and holder can easily handle it.

I believe those drivers give you medium and low based on a percentage of the current on high.  Medium should be 30% and low 5%.  So in Foy’s example of tailcap currents, if you take 30% of 1.90A you get 0.57A (Foy measured 0.58A) and 5% of 1.90A gives you 0.095A (Foy measured 0.09A).  So the driver must be basing everything on what it can pull from the battery (or batteries) on high.

-Garry

So that means every time you turn it on it must draw full current for a fraction of a second to calibrate its output levels. I’d be surprised if it did that, as i can’t imagine the designer of the chip would go to that much work and wasting battery energy use just to figure out how much power to provide on lower settings. And where does that power go if its doing it?

I believe resistance is resistance no matter what mode it’s in. Having resistance in the battery holder is the same as soldering a resistor in line with the circuit. All modes are effected by it no matter how much the draw is. Just because medium and low do not pull the same from the cells as high, doesn’t mean that cell holder resistance does not effect them the same percentage.
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Bort wrote:
So that means every time you turn it on it must draw full current for a fraction of a second to calibrate its output levels. I’d be surprised if it did that, as i can’t imagine the designer of the chip would go to that much work and wasting battery energy use just to figure out how much power to provide on lower settings. And where does that power go if its doing it?

No. With drivers that use PWM to regulate output levels, the full current is always being drawn. It’s just not always being drawn all the time. Basically, power to the LED is just being switched on and off at a particular frequency. This results in a perceived decrease in overall brightness, even though each time the LED is switched on it is technically at full brightness.

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cainn24 wrote:
Bort wrote:
So that means every time you turn it on it must draw full current for a fraction of a second to calibrate its output levels. I’d be surprised if it did that, as i can’t imagine the designer of the chip would go to that much work and wasting battery energy use just to figure out how much power to provide on lower settings. And where does that power go if its doing it?

No. With drivers that use PWM to regulate output levels, the full current is always being drawn. It’s just not always being drawn all the time. Basically, power to the LED is just being switched on and off at a particular frequency. This results in a perceived decrease in overall brightness, even though each time the LED is switched on it is technically at full brightness.


Wow, seems like that would be hard on the batteries. Is there an advantage to doing this instead of reduced current draws at lower settings?

The Journal of Alternative Facts TM

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No, its not hard on them.. its a little less efficient, but a lot cheaper.

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NightCrawl wrote:

No, its not hard on them.. its a little less efficient, but a lot cheaper.


how much cheaper?

The Journal of Alternative Facts TM

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NightCrawl
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I dont build drivers so I dont know exactly, but for current regulation, you need more parts on the driver board and/or more complex programming of the software.

Also, with lower current, light color can change.

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Got one of these yesterday – it’s a lot chunkier than I was expecting, and came, in excellent shape, very well packed in a strongcardboard box (with a P60 drop-in), in record time. Just 8 days from China.

I was planning to use eneloops, but didn’t much like the AA carrier. It’s strong enough, but the tinny contacts look a bit meh. I even managed to put the AA batteries in the wrong way first of all. Fixed that, and put the carrier in the wrong way before I noticed the + and – markings/ Doh!!

Fortunately I ordered a sleeve for a 18650, and used that. Had a quick play with the dogs in the back garden, and it’s pretty bright (to say the least). Surprised it still worked after all the messing about I did.

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Thanks for the update Woody!! I’ve got one one the way from IO. It would be nice if it were here in 8 days but, I dont see that happening!

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Cooter wrote:
Thanks for the update Woody!! I’ve got one one the way from IO. It would be nice if it were here in 8 days but, I dont see that happening!

Mine took 18 days, which is about the range others have gotten theirs, so thats what you should expect, and anything less would be a very nice bonus!

The Journal of Alternative Facts TM

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Foy wrote:

Run times coming . . . sorry . . .

 

Foy

How does the Cyclone compare in performance to a Trustfire A8 ? I luuuuv my A8 ...... Love
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Does anyone know where I might find an OP reflector for the C88?

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Does the C88 take a standard C8 reflector?  How about the C8 OP from KD.  KD says it's 41mm x 31mm. 

EDIT - Or just spray glass frosting spray paint or clear coat on the SMO reflector (although you may not be able to go back).

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Diameter is 40mm, and the height is about 36mm. Close, but no cigar. Thanks for the effort though Smile

EDIT: Fired off an email to Hank at IO, but I’m not holding out much hope.

I love this C88, and the throw is excellent, but I’d also like to be able to get a little more flood out of it when the situation calls for that. In other words, I want to keep both options, so spraying the reflector is not really on the cards (although I guess I could always obtain a spare SMO reflector and go to work on that one).

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Received mine today.

Not really impressed, think that maybe this time I was unlucky and got a defective unit.Undecided

The output is definitely less than any of my C8.

Compared to HD2010 on wall looks like the C88 is on med instead of high, there's a ton of difference!

This evening I will try measuring current at home, just to have numbers.

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Rockspider wrote:

Received mine today.

Not really impressed, think that maybe this time I was unlucky and got a defective unit.Undecided

The output is definitely less than any of my C8.

Compared to HD2010 on wall looks like the C88 is on med instead of high, there’s a ton of difference!

This evening I will try measuring current at home, just to have numbers.


i really wonder if this is a new batch with defective drivers

The Journal of Alternative Facts TM

"It is critical that there is a credible academic source for the growing and important discipline of alternative facts. This field of study will just keep winning, and we knew that all the best people would want to be on board. There is a real risk in the world today that people might be getting their information about science from actual scientists"

 

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Checked the Amp draw, for sure there's something wrong with my Cyclone:

High 1.07 A  Frown

Med  0.33 A

Low  0.05 A

 

Before someone ask it, my meter has thick cables and gold plated contacts, just for comparison my UF C8 SS with 105C driver measured 2.82A on high.

The test cell is a Trustfire 26650 5000mAh, which I measuerd in the HD2010 at the same time also, to be sure it's not the cell.

The HD2010 measured 3.9A high, 1.03 mid, 0.13 low.

 

 

At this point I can only think that the driver is defective.

I will write to Intl.Outd. to explain the problem.

Will keep you informed.

 

 

@ BORT:

Did you hear anybody else having same problem?

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Rockspider wrote:

Checked the Amp draw, for sure there’s something wrong with my Cyclone:

High 1.07 A  Frown

Med  0.33 A

Low  0.05 A

 

Before someone ask it, my meter has thick cables and gold plated contacts, just for comparison my UF C8 SS with 105C driver measured 2.82A on high.

The test cell is a Trustfire 26650 5000mAh, which I measuerd in the HD2010 at the same time also, to be sure it’s not the cell.

The HD2010 measured 3.9A high, 1.03 mid, 0.13 low.

 

 

At this point I can only think that the driver is defective.

I will write to Intl.Outd. to explain the problem.

Will keep you informed.

 

 

@ BORT:

Did you hear anybody else having same problem?


No one else, we may have orders from a newer batch since its been a while since this review, but my reply from hank is not confidence inspiring
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/12819

The Journal of Alternative Facts TM

"It is critical that there is a credible academic source for the growing and important discipline of alternative facts. This field of study will just keep winning, and we knew that all the best people would want to be on board. There is a real risk in the world today that people might be getting their information about science from actual scientists"

 

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I cannot believe so many people are getting bad Cyclones.  Seriously . . . 1.07 amp?  Mine pulls over 2.80 intitially and settles down to around 2.75 and is bright as heck.  You need to get a refund or exchange and after as long as it has been, Hank needs to get ahead of this.

I strongly recommend and then everybody gets a lame light.  I'm lovin' that, for sure.

 

Foy

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Yeah I'm pretty sure it's a driver issue.

I repeated the test with different cells

I got 2 KingKong INR26650 and one Trustfire 26650 5000mAh, and all them gave exactly those same numbers, 1.07-0.33-0.05A

The C88 hotspot at 3m on wall has same brightness as the HD2010 on med level. No strange as HD2010 measured 3.9-1.03-0.13 on same cells.

I wrote to Hank in PM here and will wrote him on his store too, then will wait a few days for an answer. I understand he could be busy or away for a few days.

I just hope I don't have to swap the driver by myself, because I've read that the pill is pressed in and mine is firmly pressed, I could not move at all by hand. Don't want to rush and ruin it.

 

Foy don't be embittered, you reviewed what you had in your hands. I see the full potential of this light is as you described, the beamshot shape and size are really good, the assembly and finish are good too. If one or few or some are "defective" due to a bad set of drivers, I can not really blame the seller. I don't think Hank (or Ric or any of those small sellers we know) has a QC line to test all flashlight are exactly per spec before packaging.

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Hank is a stand-up seller, for sure.  Foy has spent many pesos at IO and no doubt, will spend too much more.  Rusty Joe had problems with his quite some time ago and the replacement he received wasn't much better, according to him.  I've mentioned this a couple of times but a while back, I commented in somebody else's thread about my then new Shadow TC6 pulling 1.80 amps at the tail instead of the advertised 2.5.  This was before I wrote the review and because I was so happy with the light (still am) I chose not to make an issue about .70 +/- amp.

The next day I get a PM from Hank saying he was sorry I received the "wrong head" and would send another right away.  Upon arrival, he said he would arrange for me to send the old head back.  I got the new head a week later and it pulls a fairly steady 2.50 amps.  I PM'd Hank, I had received the new head and to please advise re; shipping back the old one.  That was 5-9-12 and I still have both heads.

I think the Cyclone is an important flashlight and worthy the kind of support I received on the TC6.

 

Foy

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I received PM a few days ago about another Cyclone with issues.  I wonder how many people have failed Cyclones?

 

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Any news regarding how these issues were taken care of?

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Happy to report that after a "brain transplant" (A.. B.. someone...   LOL!! Marty Feldman in Young Frankestein) now my Cyclone is finally up to its name.

After sending to Hank a short video with comparison and Amp measuring with other nanjig105 equipped lights, he agreed that the driver was defective, and asked me if I was able to replace the driver so he could send me a replacement driver. I agreed and started disassembling the light. With the freeze and torch trick the pill came off easily and with a bit of prying with small screwdrivers finally i leveraged the old driver out of the pill. Not very easy, really, as it appeared to have been cyanoed in place and the brass ring come out also, little warped.

Anyway the brass ring was easily straightened (should I say rounded again?).

I'm still waiting the replacement driver to arrive, but I also had one ordered months ago so installed that one.

This was my first soldering a driver, wow those things are so small I had to buy a new tiny point for my soldering gun, but ended soldering very easy and clean.

Now my Cyclone measure a steady 2,8A on high, 0,86 on med and 0,15 on low and output is definitely up to expectations!

This thing can throw! Nice and clean hotspot. But there's no match with the HD2010. That's in another league. The reflector size difference is obvious, a HD2010 ain't pocketable at all, but the Cyclone can still fit in a large jacket pocket. Nice portable thrower Laughing

 

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