Lost shipment!! -- How was your case handled? :)

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kreisler
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Lost shipment!! -- How was your case handled? :)

I guess that cases of U.S. nationwide lost shipments (of flashlight items) are handled to the full satisfaction of the U.S. recipient and the U.S. dealer assumes the financial loss by resending the item for FREE or by issuing a full refund. USPS packages have shipment numbers and thus cases of 'Lost shipment!!' should be rare anyway.

When a dealer from any part of the world had sent you a package (parcel, envelope, ..) and it never reached you, please share how your case was handled and solved! -- Did you make paypal return your money, or did the seller come up with friendly suggestions? And had you paid for insurance or tracking in your case?

Well.. in my case: 5.5 weeks ago i placed an order with Flashlights USA** without insurance (5.00$ saved) and the package didnt reach me as yet. Usually USPS First Class Mail International envelopes (with low or high declared value, doesnt matter) arrive within 2.0 weeks, so i am beginning to assume a case of 'Lost shipment!!'. Is it possible to make Paypal refund the expenses although the shipper has proof of posting? Obviously i cant prove (to anyone) that the package never got to me.

i am now really regretting having placed that order at that time..

 

** = original U.S. dealer's name concealed. PM me for disclosure.

*FMI* i got 4 i/o sh
Edited by: kreisler on 06/11/2012 - 15:31
SashiX
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No PP refund after those 45 days, AFAIK. On the other hand, I received once a package after 9 weeks, lol :bigsmile: Was a cheap stuff though Flat Stare Send them an email, and tell them that you will wait a little bit more and avoid PP claim (like a good customer :bigsmile: ). If they agree, insist on 2 months max and if you still not receive it past this time, ask for new light.

kreisler
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ive sent them several emails asking for suggestions. i dont have the feeling that they are willing to resend the item..

 

i am trying hard to be a nice customer .. but without suggestions from their part i am "at loss". next week the order passes the 45 days..

*FMI* i got 4 i/o sh
scaru
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I'd start a claim on the 45th day and then give them a chance to fix it before you escalate it. 

esrevenge
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I think its good to pay a bit more and go with insurance.

PP claim is not a replacement for saving money on tracking or insurance.

Hope your light arrives soon.

duro
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I placed an order with International Outdoor 30 days ago. I've yet to receive my batteries. The prior order was received in two weeks so I'm indeed worried. I contacted Hank and he said to wait another 30 days and if I do not receive it, they'll send another order. I'm happy with that, but jeez...taking awhile?

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kreisler wrote:

ive sent them several emails asking for suggestions. i dont have the feeling that they are willing to resend the item..

i am trying hard to be a nice customer .. but without suggestions from their part i am "at loss". next week the order passes the 45 days..

Aahh, open PP case then, ahora mismo :bigsmile: Describe that you haven't received your package yet, but you will wait a little bit more. Give them 2 weeks more.

Actually, I've read your first post wrong. Well, I've read it right, but thought that they've sent your lights via HK Flat Stare After re-reading your post, I must agreed, never seen USPS shipping delay so long Flat Stare I tend to get First class packages (normally) in less than 2 weeks. I've received all priority packages in less than 2 weeks. More than 5 weeks for first class? Too much and I think that you will not receive it Sad (hope I'm wrong, buddy. Good luck.) (unless they've shipped it 4 weeks after you order the light, i.e. out of stock, etc.)

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Can you track the mail piece?  I have found that trackable items if within the US or even with a China tracking number end up in Atlanta GA are headed to the "Dead Mail" center( unless your processing center is in Atlanta of course).  These items end up at auction.

 

They call this "undeliverable" mail.  Possibly because of a missing or unreadable delivery address. 

I ordered some vaping stuff from a company called Eastmall (China) a few years ago and it took some back and forth for me to explain to them how the USPS handles these cases.  In the end I got a refund for the items thanks to a proficient speaker of English, and an understanding of how my local (USPS) works.  If you have a tracking # look for where the parcel "died"

 

EDIT :  I did have a shipment from DX that took 4 months to show up.  It realy took that long indicated by the post mark date.  I got a refund from them, but they followed up and asked me again if I received the package on the day it arrived and I told them yes just today.  I looked up the items in the order and we agreed for me to pay the current value of the items instead of what was originally paid by me.  They sent me a PP request for $ and I paid.  Some of these companies do audit monthly,  if you get something you have received a refund on , go ahead and affirm you got it even if after 120+ days and agree on a % off.

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ruffles
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Definitely start a PP claim at 44 days... you don't need to escalate it to anything yet, and it'll give you a few weeks of extra waiting time.

If it goes past 45 days, PP won't help. 


 

Haggai
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I've only had a few missing packages, out of about 300 orders in the last year and a half (never had much online buying activity before that). Sometimes packages show up three months after being shipped, sometimes they don't show up at all. I always offer to repay if the order arrives, most of the time the seller is happy with the money, sometimes the seller doesn't want my money back  o.O (happened once with BuyInCoins, once with an american eBay seller, she just told me to keep it as a gift, go figure Smile ).

If I don't receive the order within 30 days I contact the seller, they tell me to wait a week, I agree and after a week contact them again, now they usually offer something or try to delay again. If they don't offer a refund/resend within the 45 days of PayPal, I go the dispute route (but haven't had to do that more than 3 or 4 times).

 

eBay dealers are probably the easiest to deal with. They're so afraid for their reputation that they usually refund right away.

I've also had extremely good experience with BuyInCoins and SourcingMap (even after PayPal's dispute time limit), both refund very fast and only ask to verify shipping address.

With Lightake and LED-DNA (on eBay) I've had worse luck and needed to use PayPal dispute to get my money back.

SuntekStore currently use some delay tactic and ask me repeatedly to wait, but since it's a 1.8$ item I didn't bother with a PayPal dispute and I hope they'll just resend it eventually.

Having a tracking number helps, but is usually too expensive for the things I buy and shipping takes longer, and with sellers usually doing what they can to satisfy the customer, I think it's not needed. The total cost of paying for tracking numbers would surpass the amount I would have lost even if none of my lost shipments would have been refunded. With more expensive items it's sometimes advisable to use a tracking number, but I've almost never paid for one and no expensive orders were lost. Maybe I was just lucky.

kreisler
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Wow, great sharing of your experiences with lost shipments, thanks!! Since i've contacted Flashlights USA several times asking for solutions or suggestions and they didnt come up with any other than "please wait up to 2.0 months however we're not responsible for lost shipments", i will feel forced to go the Paypal route in a few days only to have some kind of security in my back. I know that ebay sellers, HKE, Dinodirect and other HK/CN sellers always come up with generous solutions when you report about missing shipments and they accept the fact that not with all business transactions they earn a profit, even if one didnt pay for insurance or tracking; now dealing with this U.S. dealer is a new experience and they seem to adhere to the standard protocol: no insurance paid, no replacement for the lost shipment.

The USPS shipment number ends its tracking at the U.S. airport, as expected. From there no further tracking is possible.

*FMI* i got 4 i/o sh
IndyArcher
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Man, I don't want to sound unsympathetic, so let me make sure I've got this straight:

1. You placed an order for materials from overseas.

2. You had the option to insure the shipment, but chose instead to save $5.

3. The item (or items) never showed up and now the expectation is that the seller or Paypal should pony up the money for the lost shipment even when it is admitted that there is no way to prove that the shipment did not reach you.

 

I can understand the frustration, but were it me (and it has been a couple of times over the years with other non-flashlight related items), I simply move on, lesson learned. YOU opted to not take insurance. YOU knew the purpose of insurance. YOU took the risk. IMO, never expect someone else to pay for a mistake you made. I drill that into my kids' heads on almost a daily basis it seems. 

cehowardGS
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This happened in dealing with Go_Market on Ebay.

I have had a lot orders with Go_Market. A couple months ago, one of the orders didn't show up. I contacted him and was advised to wait another week. The week went by, I contacted Go_Market that the item didn't arrive and he quickly issued a refund. HOWEVER, two weeks later the item shows up!!

I contacted Go_Market and informed that indeed the item did show up. He thanked me, and gave me instructions on how to return my REFUND.  I returned the REFUND.

Just to show you how good deeds follow good deeds. Later on, one of my torches from Go_Market stopped working. This is over two months of having this torch too. After informing Go_Market of the problem, he quickly issued me a REFUND for that torch. No sending back, just gave me a refund.

Through the length of my years (72), I have learned that good turns always come back to you!! Wink

70+, Old, Dirty and Fast..

Pulsar13
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Yeah kreisl, I think PP won't side with you on this one. 

But I wonder why you worry so much. 2 months+ shipment is quite normal for international. And you know it was really shipped since you had a USPS#, and I don't think Fenix would send coins.

cehowardGS
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scaru wrote:

I'd start a claim on the 45th day and then give them a chance to fix it before you escalate it. 

+1

I would do it in 42nd day just to be sure... Don't want to miss out by a technicality on how many days have passed.

70+, Old, Dirty and Fast..

kreisler
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IndyArcher wrote:
so let me make sure I've got this straight:

you got this straight, and maybe Flashlights USA is even reading this thread and siding with you. i could argue that the SENDER is responsible for ensuring (i.e. insuring) that the shipment reaches me safely and that HE should "take care" of it by covering the full expenses for the tracking number. in fact, dealers such as EXDUCT dont ship stuff but with Registered Mail. but my real opinion regarding the insurance topic is: the insurance costs should be SHARED 50-50 between sender and recipient. When a dealer offers shared shipping costs plus shared insurance costs, then i am willing to accept the offer; this is fair, and then i wouldnt even look for other cheaper sites (MF, DX, DD, ..). Any U.S. dealer (or German dealer) could easily win me over from MF/DX/DD by offering shared shipping costs.

On Ebay, or with DX/DD/MF/etc., it has become common business practice that the buyer is protected and if a shipment gets lost, the seller would issue a refund or resend a replacement copy for FREE. It's somehow natural part of their online business, they need to keep up their high reputation, they want to keep the waiting customer happy and make them returning customers and make them spread the good word, and they cant afford burning assets (a current customer and a potential customer are assets).

Let's assume that your point of view is the same as Flashlights USA's point of view. Then fine, i can see why you think that way. I understand your opinion. Yet i dont share your opinion, mine is opposite and quite primitive: i will never accept the idea that i had to pay for stuff which i never received. So there we'd have it: 2 opposite opinions, no friendly suggestions or gestures, no agreement. That's the definition of a classical dispute i would say.

I will wait a few more days .. and then ask PP for help. And apart from the actual ending of the story (which begins now and will end at the latest after 3 weeks after the closure of the PP claim, if needed), this is the beginning of bad experience and bad publicity with Flashlights USA, and boardies who agree with my point of view will be less likely to place orders with them..

If i lose this case (i.e. no received merchandise for the money paid), then my lesson learned will be: Never again placing orders with them. And to my buddies i will tell that ..etc..

*FMI* i got 4 i/o sh
cehowardGS
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IndyArcher wrote:

Man, I don't want to sound unsympathetic, so let me make sure I've got this straight:

1. You placed an order for materials from overseas.

2. You had the option to insure the shipment, but chose instead to save $5.

3. The item (or items) never showed up and now the expectation is that the seller or Paypal should pony up the money for the lost shipment even when it is admitted that there is no way to prove that the shipment did not reach you.

 

I can understand the frustration, but were it me (and it has been a couple of times over the years with other non-flashlight related items), I simply move on, lesson learned. YOU opted to not take insurance. YOU knew the purpose of insurance. YOU took the risk. IMO, never expect someone else to pay for a mistake you made. I drill that into my kids' heads on almost a daily basis it seems. 

Trying to understand the point here. I get a lot of items online and have to be shipped. I also get a lot items from overseas shippers too, I NEVER take out insurance..

Some items don't even cost $5.00

You mean to tell me that on EVERY order you do, or let me just say on EVERY overseas order you take out insurance???

Just asking?

 

 

70+, Old, Dirty and Fast..

Haggai
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Actually PayPal/eBay have some kind of seller protection which I believe is a sort of insurance paid for by the normal PayPal/eBay fees during purchase.

IndyArcher
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No, I don't take out insurance on EVERY order.  

The vast majority of orders I place I do so within the USA. Most ship via UPS or FedEX and are insured up to a certain dollar amount. They also come with a tracking number so that I can keep track of those packages. If I place an order, I absolutely believe that it is incumbent upon ME to make sure that I'M protecting my interests. I insure stuff frequently when purchasing via ebay simply because those items are often sent via USPS and the sellers often offer the insurance as an option. Insuring is obviously dependent upon the investment. I have an old van that I don't insure for physical damage at all because it's 12 years old with almost 200,000 miles on it. I also have a later model pick-up that actually has some value. It's worth replacing. That's the point of insuring. Can I afford to replace it? Do I desire to? Am I willing to eat the cost of an *accident* without complaining in the event that something goes wrong? That's how I decide--regardless of where an order originates.

 In this case, a guy takes a risk by making a purchase where INSURANCE WAS OFFERED for only $5. He DECLINED. Now he wants the seller to eat the cost of a problem they didn't create. If the buyer declines insurance, then presumably it's because he can afford to lose the money in the event that something goes wrong. 

I'm just no sure what is so difficult about the concept of taking responsibility for one's self. Insurance was offered. Insurance was decline. Case closed in my book. 

If the seller decides to do something extra to create a sense of goodwill for a customer, then kudos to them. But there should be absolutely no expectation that they are responsible to fix a problem that didn't need to exist save the failure of a buyer to take them up on the $5 insurance to ship overseas. 

cehowardGS wrote:

IndyArcher wrote:

Man, I don't want to sound unsympathetic, so let me make sure I've got this straight:

1. You placed an order for materials from overseas.

2. You had the option to insure the shipment, but chose instead to save $5.

3. The item (or items) never showed up and now the expectation is that the seller or Paypal should pony up the money for the lost shipment even when it is admitted that there is no way to prove that the shipment did not reach you.

 

I can understand the frustration, but were it me (and it has been a couple of times over the years with other non-flashlight related items), I simply move on, lesson learned. YOU opted to not take insurance. YOU knew the purpose of insurance. YOU took the risk. IMO, never expect someone else to pay for a mistake you made. I drill that into my kids' heads on almost a daily basis it seems. 

Trying to understand the point here. I get a lot of items online and have to be shipped. I also get a lot items from overseas shippers too, I NEVER take out insurance..

Some items don't even cost $5.00

You mean to tell me that on EVERY order you do, or let me just say on EVERY overseas order you take out insurance???

Just asking?

 

 

SashiX
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cehowardGS wrote:

IndyArcher wrote:

Man, I don't want to sound unsympathetic, so let me make sure I've got this straight:

1. You placed an order for materials from overseas.

2. You had the option to insure the shipment, but chose instead to save $5.

3. The item (or items) never showed up and now the expectation is that the seller or Paypal should pony up the money for the lost shipment even when it is admitted that there is no way to prove that the shipment did not reach you.

I can understand the frustration, but were it me (and it has been a couple of times over the years with other non-flashlight related items), I simply move on, lesson learned. YOU opted to not take insurance. YOU knew the purpose of insurance. YOU took the risk. IMO, never expect someone else to pay for a mistake you made. I drill that into my kids' heads on almost a daily basis it seems. 

Trying to understand the point here. I get a lot of items online and have to be shipped. I also get a lot items from overseas shippers too, I NEVER take out insurance..

Some items don't even cost $5.00

You mean to tell me that on EVERY order you do, or let me just say on EVERY overseas order you take out insurance???

Just asking?

Well, those "lost" packages can be returned to seller. i.e. bad written address. For example: It ends in Alabama instead of Atlanta, so when it arrives there, it will be returned because that address is wrong and doesn't exist in Alabama. Finally seller receive the package back and keeps the money. Man, I like this sort of "business" Flat Stare

Seller should know that shipping overseas could be "problematic" and must insist on registered shipping just to avoid this cases.

Just my .02.

IndyArcher
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SashiX wrote:

Well, those "lost" packages can be returned to seller. i.e. bad written address. For example: It ends in Alabama instead of Atlanta, so when it arrives there, it will be returned because that address is wrong and doesn't exist in Alabama. Finally seller receive the package back and keeps the money. Man, I like this sort of "business" Flat Stare

Seller should know that shipping overseas could be "problematic" and must insist on registered shipping just to avoid this cases.

Just my .02.

 

Not sure that forcing someone who DOESN'T want insurance is the better way. Fact is they offered insurance and the buyer intentionally and knowingly refused it. He gambled…he lost.

IMO, this fits right in with the advice, "Don't put scalding hot coffee between your legs as you drive away from the window at McDonald's" Sure, Most of the time nothing is going to happen so complacency sets in. But when something DOES happen, boy do we get burned. Then we blame McDonald's for selling *HOT* coffee. 

kreisler
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IndyArcher wrote:
then presumably it's because he can afford to lose the money in the event that something goes wrong. 

I'm just no sure what is so difficult about the concept of taking responsibility for one's self. Insurance was offered. Insurance was decline. Case closed in my book

If the seller decides to do something extra to create a sense of goodwill for a customer, then kudos to them.

Yes, kudos to all those (many) sellers in the East (incl ebay sellers) who do eat the costs!! If this thread helps to identify and pinpoint other sellers who are not willing to offer this kind of "extra", then be it. My book closes in 3 weeks, and till then i am sure that people are interested in learning how this story ended and that my experience will influence their future choice of dealers.

The side question is if the dealer can afford to burn ALL (till then happy) customers who ran into the same problem of lost shipments. Maybe a few who learned the lesson will say 'thanks dear dealer for teaching me the lesson, i'll be happy to return as customer' but more (potential) customers who learned about my lesson (=experience with them) will say 'hmm good to know in advance how they handle things, lemme shop elsewhere with more confidence thanks kreisl for sharing'.

Order date was 2012-04-16. Day42 sounds good to me, thanks guys for siding with the weaker (which is always the budgeteer Wink )

*FMI* i got 4 i/o sh
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kreisler wrote:

 

Order date was 2012-04-16. Day42 sounds good to me, thanks guys for siding with the weaker (which is always the budgeteer Wink )

One would think right vs. wrong would be the line of demarcation, not strength or weakness.

 

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kreisler wrote:

...Dinodirect... always come up with generous solutions when you report about missing shipments

I had an order from DD that got lost. The advice I got was to wait 60 days before doing anything. Silly

Good think I filed a dispute on day 43, it's now been over 4 months since I ordered and still nothing.

SashiX
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IndyArcher wrote:

SashiX wrote:

Well, those "lost" packages can be returned to seller. i.e. bad written address. For example: It ends in Alabama instead of Atlanta, so when it arrives there, it will be returned because that address is wrong and doesn't exist in Alabama. Finally seller receive the package back and keeps the money. Man, I like this sort of "business" Flat Stare

Seller should know that shipping overseas could be "problematic" and must insist on registered shipping just to avoid this cases.

Just my .02.

 

Not sure that forcing someone who DOESN'T want insurance is the better way. Fact is they offered insurance and the buyer intentionally and knowingly refused it. He gambled…he lost.

IMO, this fits right in with the advice, "Don't put scalding hot coffee between your legs as you drive away from the window at McDonald's" Sure, Most of the time nothing is going to happen so complacency sets in. But when something DOES happen, boy do we get burned. Then we blame McDonald's for selling *HOT* coffee. 

Yeah, but this way they ensure that they will not refund for lost package. I.e.: you are selling something, buyer didn't received it and want a refund. Same stuff weeks later. Then you think: "I can't lose any more. Will insist on reg. ship.". Yes, you will lose those clients who don't want to pay reg.ship. but you'll ensure that you will not lose any more $$$. It's not sellers fault, but buyers neither. It's postal service, transport or whatever fault.

It's OK for expensive stuff. Of course a no-way for $4 item :bigsmile:

kreisler
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Dimlux wrote:
Good think I filed a dispute on day 43, it's now been over 4 months
After 60 days total PP got your money back? With DD, as it is known, there is no need to walk along the PP route. The shopper doesnt have to fear loss; they work hard to satisfy you and are generous with replacement shipments or refunds -- you only have to wait the 60 days and then contact them, for example thru the chat channel. I dont know of any customer case where DD made the customer eat the costs. I almost ordered something from them today, a cannongrey Tank E09 V2.

The aspect of gambling nullifies itself when large sellers with FREE global shipping expect a certain percentage of lost shipment claims (e.g. 0.5%) and accept to cover for the loss without questions asked.

HKE once told me that flashlights selling business is such that not with each and every sales transaction can the dealer (HKE) make a profit. As soon as the buyer returns the torch (repair/warranty/..) or reports a missing shipment, all earned profits are eaten or even actual financial loss is generated. HKE states that this happens, it's the nature of the flashlight business, and is sad .. but frank customer satisfaction be of higher priority. Yeah, kudos to them.

I certainly regret, stingy as i am, not having ordered with them .. their price would have been 5$ higher than the U.S. dealer.

*FMI* i got 4 i/o sh
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I ordered a large number of parts from CNQG a couple or 3 months ago. I placed the order after my dry was stuck at us customs for a month. At the time unregistered mail was shipping quicker so I figured I'd split my parts order into 2 shipments via unregistered mail instead of just one in case one got lost. As my luck would have it NEITHER ever showed up after 6 weeks.

I contacted Ric and he resent both orders in one registered package and it arrived safely yesterday. Now THAT'S great customer service!!!

Who knows, maybe the others will show up in another month or two but I doubt it. Undecided

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Normally, all my stuff got to me eventually. Except two times of "supposedly" lost package. And these two just happens to be a "promised" replacement from two ebay seller for wrong/defective parts I received.

Hmmm... what a coincidence... Undecided

So in ebay, if you can, don't accept any "resend", just ask for refund/partial Smile

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kreisler wrote:

After 60 days total PP got your money back? With DD, as it is known, there is no need to walk along the PP route. The shopper doesnt have to fear loss; they work hard to satisfy you and are generous with replacement shipments or refunds -- you only have to wait the 60 days and then contact them, for example thru the chat channel. I dont know of any customer case where DD made the customer eat the costs.

I have given the CS chat a try. The Otta_ clone I spoke with appeared to be from the shallow end of the gene pool and didn't get (or pretended not to get) the problem despite me sending pics and describing the issue in simple terms several times (note: this was not the lost order case, but another issue I had with one of my other orders).

Regarding the lost order I opened a ticket through their support system. The response to my ticket was that I should wait. I told them that as a precaution I will open a dispute with Paypal before 45 days and I informed them a couple of days before I had to escalate the dispute to a claim that I had not received the order and I would like a refund. After that I received a refund.

The fact that I was given the runaround by the CS chat and having had issues with all my orders from DD I opened the dispute since I didn't trust DD. After that I have not ordered anything from DD and I'm not going to order again from DD.

/endrant Silly

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Didnt bother to read all posts, but my brother ordered knife from USA around the same time that you did, Kreisler, and his hasnt arrived yet either.

Perhaps they are all stuck at USA border control?

cehowardGS
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Last seen: 7 years 5 months ago
Joined: 01/25/2012 - 17:52
Posts: 476
Location: East Coast

IndyArcher wrote:

No, I don't take out insurance on EVERY order.  

Okay, since we are having a friendly debate on this, let me clarify. Wink

I have sent Ebay items that I am selling for over $200, I am sending them USPS, I do not insure! Am I gambling? My answer is no.

Let me go deeper, a 1000 to 1 is not gambling even 500 to 1. Almost a sure thing.   IMO, that is the chances that you lose something in the mail.  Also when I order something, I never take out insurance. If it is lost, or I don't get it, I go to the seller and settle  it there. If there is a problem, I go to Ebay and or Paypal. I am like the OP, insurance adds to the price. Now, there are instances where I might take out insurance, but they are very, very small.

Again, we are not gambling when we don't take out insurance on orders, overseas or nationwide..Wink

 

70+, Old, Dirty and Fast..

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