Flahslights a world of contradictions?

LED Flashlights – General Info
1

Being new to the online flashlight community this is something that appears rather apparent.

I’ve seen many examples of this, e.g.

-Multiple li-ion cells. Today I’ve had a PM telling me “running 2 batteries back to back is the most dangerously dumb thing you can do”. This is highly confusing and contradictory to the vast majority of flashlights on sale which are sold with the intention of doing this. Pretty much every flahslight maker sells a multiple li-ion battery flashlight.

So what gives?

BTW - thanks to the person who PM’d me. This isn’t a dig at you, just using your example :slight_smile:

-p60 drop ins. In one thread I was told that running a single 18650 will suffer too much sag and not offer up the performance. Yet on the flip side people also say don’t run multiple cells and why bother with a 2xbattery p60??

I find this highly confusing and disorientating - what are you meant to do?

-p60s in general. Some will say they are the best, others seem to hate them.

-budget brands. On BLF it’s evident there is a big following of budget lights, yet some other forums seem to shun them without fail.

-Outrageous lumen claims.

-Ratings and standards. ANSI FL1 seems like a brilliant idea, why do so few flashlight makers actually use it, especially with regards to things like Beam Distance and lux ratings?

-Throw. This is one that interests me, I like throwy lights. But surely there is some middle ground between a laser like beam and flood light? Yet this seems amazingly difficult to find and talk about, mostly seems one extreme or the other.

Overall these are just observations and I’m genuinely enjoying places like BLF and CPF and my flashlight addition! :smiley:

But it’s no wonder people new to flashlights get so confused and end up asking the same questions again and again and again. There are too many “right” answers that actually end up only seeming to be opinion :quest: :~

2

Well, yes and no.

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You've pretty much summed up my answer in your very last line. Good thinking there Chicken Drumstick and a warm welcome to BLF :-)

Multiple battery lights: IF you use matched batteries and always check voltage after charging that it is within something like 0,1 volts then I see no problem. What I do is I use the SAME 2 or 3 batteries in the same torch all the time! Never change. Then I check them after recharging. And thats it. Ohh. And i "top up" li-ion batteries all the time to keep them from being stressed too much!

4

Stick around and read up the recent posts.

The fun is in the journey. Not the destination.

:slight_smile:

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Here’s another example, although more specific……

From the Solarforce website:

550 lumens, 2 hour runtime and 2.7v min voltage

Yet from the Solarforce-sales website the same drop in is now 880 lumens, only runs for “over 3 hours” and has a 3.0v min voltage :~

Something smells fishy and I’m not talking about the contents of Baldrick’s apple crumble….

6

[quote=Chicken Drumstick]
-Multiple li-ion cells. Today I’ve had a PM telling me “running 2 batteries back to back is the most dangerously dumb thing you can do”. This is highly confusing and contradictory to the vast majority of flashlights on sale which are sold with the intention of doing this. Pretty much every flahslight maker sells a multiple li-ion battery flashlight.

So what gives?[/QUOTE]

Apologies to the person who PM’d you in advance, but this is just paranoia. Yes, more things can go wrong with a multiple cell setup, but if you use quality cells that are properly matched and managed, there’s no real reason that it should be considered a dangerous practice.

Quality cells are certainly up to the task. This advice might be appropriate for someone who skimps on quality in the battery department, and many people do.

This is simply a matter of personal preference, nothing more.

What some people fail to realize/remember about flashlights enthusiasts is that it’s not all about practicality. It’s also a hobby. Yes, I totally agree that for mission critical applications, you want top quality. But not all of us are f#!king navy seals, or secret service agents. In the end there’s just a shitload of fun to be had in the budget arena. A lot of us just really like modding and rebuilding cheap lights. It’s a big part of the fun, and we learn a lot in the process.

But let’s also not pretend that their aren’t highly functional and reliable lights to be found for a bargain. There most certainly are. And let’s also remember that a big financial investment is also typically an emotional investment as well. Spend big money on something, and your philosophy is likely to fall in line with that. In other words, you often become biased against entertaining the possibility that you could have obtained a functionally equivalent and still reliable alternative at a fraction of the cost.

Sure. But it doesn’t take long to learn enough to see through the marketing bullshit, and it typically only happens at the really budget end of the budget market, if you know what I mean.

Good question. I don’t know.

There most definitely is a middle ground, and you’ll find a lot of it in P60 territory.

Just stick around, and don’t be afraid to ask questions. In no time you’ll be answering these sorts of questions yourself :slight_smile:

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Chicken drumstick, There is no one truth, only opinion.
That is why we circle the light, searching, seeking, prying, asking…
and ultimately buying/building (for the more enlightened ones) one more light to satisfy the insatiable.
That is why you are at BLF.
You will find your own path and confusion will lead to reason and enLIGHTenment (or a Sh*tload of torches).

My own dilemma is whether to get the SR King or STL-V2 next.
My inner soul says order them together :wink:

Hmmm, I think Pretzy summed it up!

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lol thanks for all the positive feedback. It really helps and encourages me to spend more…. :wink:

As for batteries I’m only using AW’s in multiple applications (EagleTacs and one Surefire as singles). So I hope that will minimise potential issues.

9

Fixed.

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if you dont have a thrower above 40k cd, get the stl v2 (48k), and the skyray king is just an absolute must have. Same output as tk70, but more floody. Srsly 2300 OFT lumens… In a can sized light. How can you not?

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ANSI costs money to test and certify. Why certify when you can just claim 4000 lumen ?

cainn pretty much nailed the rest.

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Pretzy,

Perhaps.

13

2+ batteries are perfectly safe as long as they remain very similar voltages. It works well to just charge them up as a pair then put them in.

And the big thing right now is the XML led by cree. It has a large hotspot and a good amount of spill. On standard cooling setup(on an aluminum start in the “pill” of the light which has a block of metal as a heatsink with cooling fins hopefully on the outside of the light) an XML can reach about 1000 lumens at the led itself, but once you factor in the reflector and the lens at the end, it’s more like 800 lumens. And that’s in a well driven light, you can always go less or more, but you get way more heat per lumen achieved. A well driven XML on high imo should be 3 to 3.5 amps.

Although it’s still kinda expensive, if you want a thrower just get the Crelant 7g5 v2 from md lightsource, he just put it on sale from $87 down to I believe $65 because a new version of it is coming out. The crelant is not really budget anymore, it’s a good quality light with good quality control. If you wanted a little cheaper, get the HD2010l, you should get it around $40. I’m sure someone could give you coupons and stuff to get it down to $35 though.

14

Fair topic,
Thought it was just me,its a minefield

What sorta set bells ringing with me was reading,Ile wait for the review,
Everybodys waiting for the review,so if everybody waits for the review,who buys the product.The more experienced buy it once the reviews done and dusted as they have been through this pain……Then thers the, is it or isnt it a fake to consider.If i see The word fire on any product now,it may aswell just says DO NOT BUY TO ME,which isnt true in many cases.So,who do you beleive,trust.Pay top dollar and that should sort the wheat from the chaff,NOPE,it wont.Its A Minefield

I think reading a trusted reviewers report on something is vital.Otherwise,its just opinions and those can come from new unqualified people who probably read a bad review,a miss guided review,a false claim,just blatant bull… to getcha ta buy ther tat.Lets face it.Look at identical products in ten diffrent places and you wouldnt beleive they wher the same at all with some of the outlandish,over exadurated,intentional miss directed claims.

The other end of the scale thers the Tefalheads i call um, its so over ya head with Tech stuff ya give up[ALMOST]its so Rocket Science.These guys are brilliant in ther own circle,but without a degree in quantum physics they may aswell be speaking CLINGON.

Best way,read trusted reviews from people who know ther stuff by personal experience rather than what some bloke said in the pub.Find someone who you understand with sufficient experience.Then PESTER THEM TA DEATH WITH Qs….lol

Just my take onit,its a great subject and here is about the best place to learn without making to many mistakes.

DON…

15

Hopefully this adds a little bit to what others have already written:

- A P60 drop-in is a neat idea in theory. You can pop in a different drop-in when you want a different type of light. e.g. different drop-ins can be better for throw or for flood, they can produce cool white or neutral white or warm white light, they can be single-mode or multi-mode, etc.

But the drop-in itself usually doesn’t make very good thermal contact with the inside of the head of the flashlight host (body). Therefore, if you are using a high-output drop-in, the heat dissipated by the drop-in doesn’t easily get conducted outside the flashlight. To fix that problem, people use different heat-conducting materials to fill the air gaps between the drop-in and the host.

If it’s easy to install/remove/replace that heat-conducting material, it’s not a big hassle to swap drop-ins. But for some people, it is too much hassle, and another host might be $20 or less so it can be more practical to just buy more hosts and not swap drop-ins, or just avoid the P60 format altogether.

Also, a P60 reflector is limited to I think 26 mm diameter. Some people like throw, and for the best throw, 26 mm is usually too small a reflector.

- BLF embraces all lights of all budgets, although there is definitely more emphasis on less-expensive lights that produce the most bang for the buck. CPF embraces mostly brand-name lights that are by nature more expensive than most budget brands. BLF members sometimes make fun of the super-expensive lights that CPF members seem to favour. CPF members sometimes disparage the less-expensive lights that BLF members seem to favour.

I’ve seen people write that CPF moderators intentionally discourage the discussion of lights that are comparable to but less expensive than the brands that advertise with CPF. I myself have seen at least one example of this.

For expensive lights, CPF usually has more active discussions. For inexpensive lights, BLF usually has more active discussions. I don’t know how to define “expensive” and “inexpensive” though.

- The lumen claims from some brands of lights are simply the number of LEDs in the light, multiplied by the maximum output of that LED. For example, if a flashlight uses three XM-L LEDs, and drives each XM-L at 1 A current, the actual output might be around 1000 lm. But the specification might state 3000 lm or more, because a single XM-L is capable of delivering 1000 lm or more when driven hard (at around 3 A or more). The specified lumen claim is totally unrelated to the drive circuitry. Experience and other members will help you figure out which lights use these nonsense lumen claims and which lights use reasonable claims.

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It is confusing at first but at least you are starting out here rather than at CPF where they seem to know WAY too much and want you to know it. At least here most of the members are down to earth and are practical and don’t talk about the intricacies of how to get a true lumen reading for 18 pages straight.

On the flood to throw, you are mistaken. Most lights are a mix of flood to throw. I think that is just how you hear them described as more flood or more throw but in truth finding a light with a nice mix is not hard at all. It’s much harder to find a pure thrower or pure flood light.

Another thing to remember is that most flashlight hobbyists are nerds.

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It's really no different than any other thing you research. How about computers, or tablets, washers and dryers, TVs, Stereos, car audio. It doesn't matter, 95% of this kind of thing is he said, she said. It's mostly personal likes and dislikes. One person raves about a light, 10 people buy it and 5 people end up not liking it at all. Nothing new here. Try Flashlight Wiki

Like anything else, do your own research, read, read, read. After a while, you begin to see the more knowledgeable members here and they can give good answers, but you will still need to try lights and learn what you want.

Look for posts with beam shots or go to http://fonarik.com/test/indexen.php for beam shots of many lights. It may be helpful when trying to figure out flood, throw, hot spot and spill, if you can see the beam shots of the lights that are talked about.

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What he said.
*Which one?
*Take you’re pick.

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*What he said.
*Which one?
*Take you’re pick.

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Oops!