Sharpening experts...

EDC Gear for Flashlight Carriers
1

Feel free to ask any sharpening questions in this thread by the way but for you experts I have a few.

It seems that someone with experience can get a razor sharp edge using just about any system so it isn’t really about equipment yet many of us feel that we could do a better job if we had one more piece of equipment (I know I do).

I thought I had this down (razor sharp edge) and I do for some knives and for some I can’t get it no matter what I do.

Is it true for those of you who have been doing this for a while that you can get a razor sharp edge on most any knife using most anything (cheap 2 -sided stone and a leather strop)?

I’m not sure what would make it easier to get a better edge on my problem knives…a coarser stone or a finer stone (I already have medium coarse and medium fine).

My sense is that it’s all done at the coarse level and if done right there are many ways to go finer (stone, sandpaper, leather strop).

Yet what I have works on some knives and not on others. All are sharp enough to cut paper but just not as well as others.

I’m also wondering about the Smith’s (or Bucks) Tri-hone system which is just basically 3 stones (fairly cheap) rather than 2.

I’m mainly just interested in free hand methods and yes, I know all about Arkansas and Japanese whetstones. Really I’m just interested in some tips and shared knowledge from someone who really has experience and knows what they are doing.

Thanks.

By the way, my sharpest knife is a SRM F1-723. If all my knives were that sharp I’d be happy. My EL-01D, L05-1, 909, Ganzo 707, and EL-02b are all close as well. Others are not.

2

Also, for anyone interested I think the following is fairly accurate as far as a “roughness” scale.

Common cheap 2-sided man made sharpening stone:300 grit course and 800 grit fine
Common assortment pack wet/dry sandpaper: 220 grit, 400 grit, 800 grit, 1000 grit

Ceramic stick (fine) such as Landsky…1000 grit

Wet/dry sandpaper also available in 2000 grit

Leather strop using common compounds from black, white, to green…all under 8 microns with the green compound (alumina oxide) being under 1 micron.

These are all materials I have which were easy to get at any hardware store. I found a table somewhere that converted everything to microns so this is how I based my rankings. Please correct anything that is not accurate.

3

If you follow the same rules of sharpening and are sure that both faces of the primary edge meet (purpose of the burr) then maybe the problem with the knives you can’t sharpen is the metal and not the method. I’ve found that soft metal knives (cheap kitchen knives for eg.) tend to be harder to sharpen and loose their sharpness quickly. In the end, I sharpen these cheapies at a wider (steeper) angle.

4

It’s probably differences in the knives as you say (eebowler).

I’ve decided to get the Lansky Deluxe 5 stone system plus an additional extra fine sapphire stone and a c-clamp base.

The user reviews generally say the sapphire stone does work if you want a razor edge and the reviews for the c-clamp base are positive as well.

The basic system itself has extra coarse, coarse, medium, fine, and extra fine stones. This should cover most everything but the extra fine store seems better for polishing than for a razor sharp edge (according to user reviews) so that’s why I’m adding the sapphire stone.

This will complete my sharpening “education” :slight_smile: so I guess it’s worth the addition expenditure.

5

I’ve never been able to consistently maintain the angle free hand on stones. The subtlest variation can be enough.

That being said, some steels are just so much harder to get an edge. Soft steels roll, Hard edges wear out stones and flesh getting the initial reprofile, and then there’s things like D2 which can be a complete mother.

Scandi grinds are much more forgiving with a little practice if you have to go free hand, although I’ve almost screwed up a few times with them, too.

Pretty much the same with chisel grinds, but they are not as practical for a lot of daily uses IMHO.

I would really like to be able to do convex edges, but I guess have never had the patience to learn another method. I tried a few times with a really soft Opinel and a mouse pad, and could get it sharp, but not to the level I’m used to.

I’ve never tried the hanging sandpaper strop method, but some people swear by it.

The Lansky is a good system. About the only complaint I’ve had with mine over the years is that the stones can come unglued from the holders, but that isn’t a big deal.

The C clamp makes things a lot quicker.

Let us know how it goes.

6

Bryan,

I’ll be interested to read your thoughts about the Lansky kit, it may be just what I’m looking for.

7

Bryan- Here are my tips for freehand:

- keeping that bevel angle consistent throughout your sharpening regime is key. Once you screw that up you have to start over by reestablishing your primary angle. Having a magnifying glass and inspect the edge after each grit to make sure the edge is consistent and no nicks or gaps along the edge. If you have to use an angle jig to keep that angle. LeeValley carries one that works ok.

- don't be a He-Man. Sharpen with light controlled strokes. I find lighter passes and well lubricated stone produces the best results. Also that slurry is important to help you abrade the metal. So stop rinsing your stone every 10 secs.

- inspect the edge and don't move up to the next grit until its perfect or you'll be spending waisted time and effort trying to establish that clean edge on higher grit stone.

- I do a big sharpening on my woodworking tools once a year and just touch up when they need it. On knives that are suitable I establish a micro bevel. Takes much less time to touch up a micro bevel than it is starting from scratch.

hope my $0.02 help

8

Making a pass on the edge with a Sharpie, or similar marker, often helps me ascertain that a correct angle has been maintained.

If the ink comes off evenly, everything is lining up.

9

Great tip and how appropriate “Sharpie!”…

10

I’ll post how that works out. I’m thinking that it may be especially good for the problem knives and maybe for the others that I like to do free hand the final stage stone on the Lansky will be useful as well.

Thanks everyone for the tips.

11

I find that most of my "problem" blades are much more consistent after reprofiling. This may or may not be the case with yours.

12

@gcbryan, we seem to be having similar problems getting some of our knives sharp. Hopefully sharing my current experiences will shed some light on any problems you are having.

Having always free handing with a two sided stone and steel until fairly recently, I decided to try something different. Here is my observations up to this point. I am definitely no expert. In fact, I am kind of stumbling my way through this at the moment, Here is where I am at.

The best thing about these good quality Chinese budget knives is that I can trial and error some new sharpening techniques without too much fear of screwing things up and I am finding that there are two stages to getting a good working edge on my knives. One is reprofiling to get an even and consistant edge , and the other is general touch up to maintain an edge.

At the moment, I have the Spyderco Sharpmaker and the Smith’s Diamond Precision Knife Sharpening System to attempt to get all my recently bought knives up to snuff.

The Spyderco Sharpmaker works really good and gets my knives sharper than they have ever been if the angle of the bevel is less than 20 degrees. If the angle is above 20 degrees, the Sharpmaker is useless. It just will not remove enough steel to reprofile.

So I have been reprofiling with the Smith’s System on the 20 degrees per side setting. Even with the diamond stones, it took several nights working on my Ganzo G704 to get to the edge. I painted the bevel with a sharpie to monitor my progress and eventually got there.

I have now been working on my Ganzo G707 for a couple of days. I don’t know if my diamond stones are wore out or if the Ganzo steel is just tough. I Have my Smith’s set up for 20 degrees each side, and one edge came from the factory less than 20 and the other side more than 20. Here are some pictures of my progress.

The first pic shows the Sharpie markings at the outer edge of the bevel. It also shows a burr produced by sharpening the other side.

The second one shows the other side of the blade with the Sharpie markings at the inner edge of the bevel.

With the time it takes to reprofile with the Smith’s Diamond System, my plans are to get the Work Sharp sharpener to do my reprofiling and speed things up.

I still haven’t figured out my strategy yet. The Spyderco Sharpmaker has two main concepts. One is that if you can hold the blade straight up and down, you can get a consistant edge angle, and two is to have the edge profiled to 30 degrees inclusive( 15 per side) and then put a micro bevel of 40 degrees inclusive and then maintain the micro bevel at 40 degrees inclusive through the years until you sharpen away the 30 degree main bevel. Then reprofile again to 30 inclusive and then put another 40 degree micro bevel. Rinse and Repeat.

I don’t have any way to reprofile my edges to 30 degrees inclusive. So I will probably end up reprofiling my all my edges to 20 degrees each side with the Work Sharp and then maintain them at 20 degrees each side with the Sharpmaker.

One of the things I worry about with this plan of attack is, doesn’t the Work Sharp put a convex edge on a knife? Will the Sharpmaker mesh with a convex edge? Is it too late to go back to one pocket knife, a handfull of soft steeled kitchen knives, and a whetstone?

Oh, the trouble this forum gets me into.

13

Fnsooner, I have the Lansky ceramic stick “Crock” system as well which is kind of like the Spyderco Sharpmaker and the Landsky 5 stone set I just ordered is more or less like your Smith system I believe.

I also just got the Ganzo 707. Mine was pretty sharp right out of the box and free handing it I got it hair shaving sharp without a lot of work. Sometimes free handing is easier I guess. :slight_smile:

I’m going to use the Sharpie trick as well when my Landsky stone system arrives as I’m sure I will be reprofiling my problem knives.

The problem knives for me are the SRM 710, SRM 707, SRM Wharncliffe (don’t remember model number) and a Boker Exkelibur that is now dull mainly due to my ineffective sharpening technique on it. All of those will cut paper but clearly aren’t as sharp as my other knives.

Thanks for the feedback (and pics).

14

That is definitely one of the advantages of sharpening free handed. You can alter the angle you are sharpening to match the existing angle. I am not convinced that getting the angles, on both sides of the blade, exactly the same is necessary, but for the time being I am going to be anal and try to get 20 degrees on both sides and get apex of the edge centered to the width of the blade.

My G707 was also pretty sharp out of the box, but I have seen sharper. So I started sharpening on it, and sharpening on it, and sharpening some more, and it just didn’t seem to get any sharper. That is when I broke out the Sharpie to see what was up.

At the moment I think my best plan of attack is to purchase the Work Sharp and make the reprofiling easier on myself and then do touch up and maintenance with the Spyderco Sharpmaker. We’ll see.

15

You’ll convex the blade with the Work Sharp and then the Sharpmaker won’t work well will it?

I think you’ll have to pick one or the other… or am I mistaken?

16

I don’t know the answer to that. I am wondering too.

Ideally what I would like to happen is to reprofile quickly and efficiently with the Work Sharp at 40 degrees inclusive and then maintain the edge with the Spyderco Sharpmaker at the 40 degree inclusive settings.

If after reprofiling with the Work Sharp at 40 degrees inclusive with a convex edge , and then if the Sharpmaker dosen’t reach all the way out to the edge(at the 40 degrees inclusive setting) and keep the blade maintained, I have a couple of options I guess.

The Sharpmaker should have enough cutting power to turn a 40 degree convex into a 40 degree V bevel and then I would do touchups there after with the SM.

Or I could possibly modify the WS to give me a 30 degree inclusive convex edge and then put a micro bevel of 40 degrees inclusive on it with the SM.

Or I may find that the WS is all I need to do reprofiling and touch ups. It makes me cringe to think of running my knives through a belt sander once a week though.

It will be a few weeks before I can get my hands on the WS, so it is all speculation ATM.

17

I've been looking at the 1" by 30" sander at Harbor Freight. (The cost is minimal compared to many of the other options - I think $40 less 20% coupon but I'm not certain.) Regardless, the sander has a backplate. That might allow for a flat grind rather than a convex grind. The next issue is the one related to holding the knife at the correct (constant) angle. I've found myself lying in bed thinking that one over and it seems to me that there should be some relatively easy way to contruct a wood guide to lay the knife against while pulling it through (from one side and then the other). It's still the design of the guide that I find a little vexing - maybe some experimentation is in order?

Once the guide is adequate and designed properly, it should be possible to attach it to a flat board equal in length to the width of the sander table - and then simply clamp the board to the table. In fact, one could make different guides for primary and secondary edges or for different knife requirements.

The belts for these sanders are very, very inexpenssive and I believe you can even get a stropping type belt. You might want to turn the knife edge up rather than down for that one???

Last but not least, a router type variable speed control is about $20 and would slow the sander down enough that you would always be in control, not to mention the added benefit of producing less heat to mess with the temper of the steel.

What do you think?

18

I think the ultimate answer for me is going to be to use all of the various (non-powered) methods that I have.

The Lansky 5 stone system hasn’t arrived yet but that’s the most complete system that I’ll have and that will be for reprofiling for sure.

Any of them work fairly well for touch up unless you have a problem knife (for whatever reason) and then the fixed angle Lansky stone system should take care of that.

The Lansky ceramic stone “Crock Box” is easy for touching up knives where it’s appropriate.

For knives where it works well (and easily) I still enjoy using basic 2-sided stones and I use a strop after using all of the various methods.

I’m really looking forward to the Lansky 5 stone (model LKCLX) getting here due to the fixed angles and the inexpensive way to get a graduated range of grits (70, 120,280,600,1,000) and I’ve added a 2,000 grit stone as well.

I also ended up ordering a tri-hone so that’s a rough India stone and soft and hard Arkansas stones.

19

Give me a good quality Buck knife and I can make it shave with the best of them. I have some very good stones and one finishing Arkansas black stone that came from Cabelas way back in the 70’s that is simply awesome. I have been sharpening knives since I was 13. I’m gonna be 49 this month. My dad taught me well. I like using the good diamond stone that I have. I can typically make a good blade shave off of it alone after I strap it on a piece of leather.

20

This looks to be about the exact same type diamond stone that I bought back in probably the early 90’s or so. I still use mine. You can’t wear them out. I paid about $15 for mine back then.

http://www.amazon.com/Chefs-Choice-Edgecraft-6-Inch-Sharpening/dp/B00004S1BB

I’ll see if I can’t find the Arkansas black stone I have for finishing.