MagLites are ever popular and they are bringing out some good usable mass market friendly lights. But I wonder if they’ve missed a truly obvious change they could have made?
D cell MagLites might be the mainstay and the trade mark, but what’s the most common complaint about them?
-Size?
-Weight?
-Cost of D cells?
-Even output
So why hasn’t Mag made a 4xAAA or a 3xAA version? They could retain the same head (or a C cell one) and have a stumpy body tube like a 1D. This would mean low cost on tooling changes and they could still sell something that looked like a traditional MagLite, but with the benefits of:
-more pocket friendly
-still chunky enough feel to be a ‘proper’ MagLite
-Lighter
-Cheaper batteries
-Higher potential output
I know here on BLF and other forums the want is for Li-ion cells. But honestly I personally have no issue with using AA or AAA’s, even more so in NiMh rechargeable format. They can offer up very similar performance and power to a Li-ion, in a more available format and only really trading size to attain this.
e.g. Mag could easily sell a 4xAAA flashlight with a C cell head with say an XP-G or XM-L emitter. It’d fit in a pocket fine and still retain the ability to throw better than most pocket lights due to the larger reflector.
320-400 lumens+ with ok runtime should be possible in such a format I’d have thought.
D cells make sense for alkalines (which is what most people use) since they nominally have like 4-5 times the capacity of AA’s (which themselves have 3x of AAA). Put them under heavy load and it can be up to twice that.
That said, they already have 2x AA light, and anything more would be unwieldy. Might as well make a 1C/D light. OTOH they do make a 3AAA light which is IMO a pretty crappy design given AAA often come in 4 packs.
C and D cells will probably be extinct in a few years. I haven’t bought either in years. Instead of trying to make their ancient design work with batteries people use (AA and AAA) they need to simply make some modern lights.
C- and D-cell M@glites are still widespread with security firms and the police. Everybody who likes to lug one around on duty, or those who keep one next to their nightstand or in the car all have chosen the multi C- or D-cell factor just because there is “some heft” to it.
To put it in other words: multi C-and D-cell M@glites are nothing more but mere truncheons (which, by default, happen to be capable of shining some light, as well)
Guess it depends how many packs you buy. Supermarkets often do 3 for 2 offers or you can buy bigger packs.
3 lots of 4 AAA’s = 12, which nicely divides by 3 to give you 4 sets of batteries
As for the D cell, they are big, heavy, expensive to buy and not easily and readily available in rechargeable format. Also while they contain lots of energy they are only 1.5v and will suffer sag. I can’t see a single D cell being able to power anything with a high lumen output to any degree of efficiency (correct me if I’m wrong). Where as 4xAAA would offer up 4.8v and 800mAh with Eneloops. Which is the same as an RCR or a 14500 and we know such a power source is very capable. Even alkalines in this setup would offer 6v, so despite sag would probably offer up something usable.
The only downside vs using a 14500 is size, but tbh I think that’d be a Mag strength to still have some heft about it. It also means they could stick with a larger head and offer up superior throw to almost anything else only running on 1x14500 or 1xRCR.
Mag could even sell the light with 4 NiMH AAA’s and a charger, but allow the option to use alkaline cells should you need to, just with reduced performance.
But I think there are other options. 4Sevens manage 400 lumens on turbo out of their 2AA light. Surely having a 3rd AA would only aid this in run time?
Alkaline cells will always be an issue, no way around this. But that’s why you’d have a torch built for good output rather than max output. I see no reason why you couldn’t get something working, even if it ramped down output as the cells lost power.
I don’t want a 3D, please don’t get hung up on that. The entire aim is to make something smaller, not bigger.
The XL200 seems fully capable of adapting for NiMH or alkaline cells. I don’t see why it can’t be done again. And I suspect quite a few people do indeed use rechargeable AA/AAA’s cells as they are cheap and easy to buy.
Put it this way Mag can already get 245 lumens and good run time from a Mini Mag Pro+. Having 3 AA’s (but packaged in a stumpy wide tube and a bigger head) will only allow more output and more run time. Combined with more throw than the Mini Mag and retaining the chunky appearance of a MagLite (and the side switch), but at the same time making it small enough to fit in coat pocket, which you can’t currently do with a D/C cell Mag.
A 4AAA variant would likely offer up an easier way to get higher lumens, but reduced run time. Led Lenser offer this format (P7, T7 and M7) but they are still using older emitters and not driving them much.
Mag are evidently happy with NiMh technology as they offer the MagCharger and the NiMh compatible ML100 and ML125.
I wouldn't mind seeing an XL200 type mag but thicker to accommodate 3xAA. Thicker body and larger reflector for great beam profile and runtime. I hate 3xAAA lights as they are a waste of batteries and space. I'd rather have a single AA than 3xAAA but I know there are a lot of 3xAAA fans here. I'm just not one of them.
I’m not sure what your contention is. AAA’s have very little capacity. AAs several times more but still a fraction of a D cell. A 3aa light with adapter is just as thick and about as pocketable as any D light. A 2AA light is a much better profile for carrying on the person. And most people don’t care about flashlights enough to put $10 worth of batteries in it.
Does that mean they shouldn’t or will never produce such a thing? No, it means there are legitimate cons of the stubby format and they decided other formats are better. For example, I personally would prefer a 3AA over 3AAA since AAA is absolutely crap for runtime, but maglite doesn’t make their product just for me.
If you can’t get a 3d Maglite in a coat pocket, your wearing the wrong coat! My black dyed surplus army jacket takes the 3d in one of the mid breast pockets, along with a tinnie, two tinnie’s in the other breast pocket and two in each waist level pocket.
Ideal for any outdoor event - light, beer, warmth and a club for protection.
The more logical step up from a 2AA round tube light is a 4AA a la jetbeam pa40. The bottom part is thin so it’s reasonably comfortable in a pants pocket.
I’m not the biggest fan of 3AAA, but Mag did seem to get higher output from the XL200 than most premium flashlight makers manage to get from 1AA. So I wonder if it’s actually more efficient, albeit slightly bigger and more hassle.
To me, the thickness of a “D” light is not the issue. It’s the length of 3 in a row to produce 4.5V. I like having 3.6V-4.5V to properly run a good, bright light and if sticking with primaries I’ll take 3xAA any day of the week over a 3xD light or 3xAAA. Best of all worlds IMO.
If all I wanted was a billy club for night use I'd stick with a traditional 3xD Mag.
But that’s the point entirely. A 3AA light would be no bigger than a D cell tube, but would only need to be 1D cell long. Such a cell setup would give you 3.6v and 2000mAh with NiMh or 4.5v on alkalines. Either way a good usable voltage to drive a light efficiently and more than enough total power to be useful.
There are many XP-G or XM-L drivers that’ll work on 2.7-4.2v and even some that’ll work on 0.9-4.2v. And from what I’ve read on here a boost driver to get a 1.5v D cell to power a higher lumen light simply wouldn’t be efficient.
The other side of the coin is price. AA’s are cheap to buy, D cells are not. And AA NiMh’s are plentiful, cheap and easy to get. Even Tesco’s (local supermarket) stocks AA rechargeable cells and charger. This is not the case with D cells.
Which is great, hence why Mag sell the 2AA Mini Mag I guess :party:
How much does a pack of D cells cost? Not too mention aren’t these also sold in packs of 2, so buying enough for a 3D means buying 4 in total (which was your moan earlier about AAAs).
3x AA is not necessarily ideal voltage unless you’re doing direct drive. It means you need buck AND boost to maintain constant brightness at full blast. 4aa is also better in this regard. The 4aa frogman clone is actually the “best” light IMO of all the cheapies, and its faults are ones with the original lenser design and relatively easy to fix if anyone bothered.
Thanks Johnny, that’s it exactly. I know runtime would reduce (something has to give somewhere). But I think 4AAA or 3AA could still offer up comparable run time to many single cell li-ion lights and good performance.
Also there was the angle on low production costs. At the end of the day Mag could build and do anything from scratch, in much the same way any other company could. But using things they already make you could take the head, reflector, tail cap, lens, switch from existing flashlighs. So all you’d need is a short body tube (maybe just a cut down version of one they already make, so they already have the tooling and raw material for it).
In fact the only new parts would be a battery carrier and a driver board and maybe a heat sink.
D cells must cost more here in the UK then. They aren’t overly expensive, but they aren’t cheap. Buying AA’s is cheaper.
As for run time, not sure my 18650 lights will really do 1 hour on MAX tbh. And a Mini Mag Pro + or XL200 would fail at your requirement. As would every light Mag has ever made I think, and Led Lenser.
