Didn't evacuate as told ? Quit crying for help.

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Chicago X
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Didn't evacuate as told ? Quit crying for help.

The stories coming out of the East Coast lately are horrifying.  Among the few tales of neighbor helping neighbor, there are many gut-wrenching accounts of death and destruction.

The most disturbing to me are those on the news crying and blaming the government for not getting them services/shelter/clothing/gas immediately after the weather has passed.  

There was a family from Staten Island (NY) who didn't evacuate, as ordered, and now are badmouthing both the state and federal officials for not having them warm and cozy as yet.  They are begging for emergency generators to power up their homes (which cannot be powered up, due to saltwater damage to the wiring) and gas for their cars (which cannot be driven, either due to flooding or lack of passable roads.)

There is another story of a mother who let her two children get washed away by floodwaters, and she blames everyone but herself for this tragedy.

FEMA was on-site within 36 hours - is it reasonable to expect better than that?  

The first reported death from the storm was a rescue worker, killed by a falling tree branch, responding to a call from someone who failed to heed the mandatory evac order.  They killed this man.

 

This is not a political discussion, and let's not turn it into one.  I would instead like to address the concept of personal responsibility, disaster planning, and listening to those who know better than you what the situation may bring.

 

Any thoughts ?

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JohnnyMac
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I agree with you on all accounts.  I am sick and tired of hearing people scream for the government to wipe their collective @sses when they poop their shorts. They decided not to evacuate when they were told to, so they need to live with that horrible decision and STFU.  Who knows, maybe they figured on some easy looting if they hung back and let everyone else leave.

Tom E
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 Yes - pretty bad, but I wasn't told to evacuate, have no power, no heat and can't get gas. Hhhmmm......

 Also when you pay the big $$$ and get that home on the bay, river or ocean. Paid millions, and your net worth is in the 10's of millions, then you get your gov assistance of couple hundred K, that's disgusting... Of course I know people on the water whose homes are worth the .75 to 1.5 mill but are having a tough time paying their bills. There's always 2 sides...

 

pounder
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yeah I agree..if you are told to get out and choose not to then you accept the consequences of your actions..people hate being responsible when they make a dumb choice..deal with it..

JonnyC
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I agree 100%.  There is tragedy in this world, and it can never be completely avoided.  And if you fail to take certain precautions, only you can be blamed for your sad state.  It's disgusting to see so many people demand the help of others simply because they are in need -- but I despise the morality of need.

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Tom E wrote:

 Also when you pay the big $$$ and get that home on the bay, river or ocean.

Unfortunately government sponsored flood insurance programs help remove the incentive for people to consider the dangers of where they live.  It's sad when people try to ignore the laws of nature.

NightCrawl
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Chicago X wrote:
I would instead like to address the concept of personal responsibility, disaster planning, and listening to those who know better than you what the situation may bring.

 

Any thoughts ?

Welcome to the USA, where you can burn your croth with hot coffee and sue the one who sold it to you.

No, seriously. People dont want to be responsible. They dont want to listen, they dont want to know.

I think 36hours are pretty good. Remember Thailand?

gords1001
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This is similar to a women over here, her young son got on a bus to the airport, got through to a plane and got picked up in Europe. Frantic 24hts for the mother, but guess who was the one person the mother didn’t blame?

I agree that if people were told to evacuate and chose to ignore it, they only have themselves to blame, I also believe from the news we have seen over here that the government is doing all they can.

What does bug me is the continued reports of this being “the worst storm in history”, I guess 1800 dead in New Orleans does not count…..

GottaZoom
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I don’t disagree. But, I understand and still feel for the people who made mistakes.

Have a sister who lost 2 homes and 2 businesses to Ike with no help from FEMA because they (formerly) had too much. All of their property and customers were spread across a wide swath by a wall of water. They had no where to go but family and find a new life elsewhere. I’m sure glad they evacuated because they didn’t during Katrina.

NY population, city, and state all appear to have handled the disaster very poorly versus what they saw in TX.

CheapThrills
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Very stupid IMO not to evacuate when told.
Yet again, I would not mind my charity pennies to go for people in the biggest need – no matter how stupid they are….

DARCANGEL
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A little common sense goes a long way,those who were told to leave should have listened.An absolute tragedy that worker died because of stupidity of others.I saw an 8year old boy was killed by a falling tree and an elerly couple as well as well as many other stories that make you wonder why people make poor choices.I can not get over the fact of how many people think the world owes them something,they are sadly mistaken.Some tragedies are self inflicted and avoidable.If it were my family,I would have heeded warnings and brought them to a safe place.

DON KIDIK
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From a none USA resisdent looking in.
What i think STINKS ,Lack of outside of the USA support[International support],i havent read or noticed any .International help,be it moneys or releif.An International disaster fund.Seems pritty standard reaction when countries are hit hard for the International community to help.Seems weird to me ther isnt any other than the expected agencys like the red cross doing ther great work..The USA is usually first inline helping others in disasters.Seems good form for others to help the USA.Im sure if 10million £ was raised by outside countries/charitys and given to the borough of queens[lets say] it would help.

As for the folks that stayed.I get the stop moaning and you made your bed so lie in it,but ther humans in need,ther part of the disaster surely.They Will need more help than most. DON… hope thats ok now Smile
NightCrawl
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Don.. your posts really lack structure.. and proper spelling.

I dont quite understand your point tho. I dont think the USA need help from any other country. Only a small part is affected and help from other parts of the USA will be there much faster than from other countries. I'm sure they would get help if needed.

Old-Lumens
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a damned sore point with me. Anyone refusing mandatory evacuation, should get no assistance or help from emergency services during the disaster. NONE. People do not want to take responsibility for themselves any more and that is WRONG. You may say it is not, but it is wrong, wrong, wrong! I am so sick and tired of people doing whatever they feel like, with no responsibility for themselves or their families and then crying for help and if they don't get it.... It's all the world who's at fault, but not theirs. I would personally like to... never mind. I'm old school and brought up in a different world than this one. I don't fit in & don't belong to it any more.

If you decided to stay, then take your beating quietly. You asked for it.

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I, on the other hand feel that even if people complain about these services they should still receive help. These are human lives and we are not living in the age where natural selection exists. We should protect other people because they are like you and me – only desperate and unable to cope with their emotions of fear and loss.
On the brighter side, if less people die, there is less mourning.
But having never worked in service before I do not know what it is like to have people berating me 24/7. I know it’s easy to say, but when it comes down to human lives no expense should be spared to save them.

Slewflash 

fnsooner
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The NYC Marathon has been cancelled. At least symbolism is still alive.

CheapThrills
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If you have nowhere to go or nothing to transport you, what can be done when you should still evacuate?
Is there public transportation to some shelters in safer area or how does it work?

scaru
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CheapThrills wrote:
If you have nowhere to go or nothing to transport you, what can be done when you should still evacuate? Is there public transportation to some shelters in safer area or how does it work?

An area a few miles from me was evacuated and they had buses running to a emergency shelter that had a generator. 

scaru
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While we're talking about Sandy if anyone has any info on Cone (other than name/email) please PM me. A number of us have been trying to track him down to make sure he's alright as he hasn't logged onto BLF or EDCF since monday night. (When he abruptly stopped replying to a conversation I was having with him)

All's good with Cone, they lost power but they have plenty of supplies to last it out. A house near them still has power, heat, and running water so they have been going over there. The house is fine so Cone is doing fine. Big Smile 

AlexGT
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Has everyone that regularly posts here from that region been accounted for?

scaru
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AlexGT wrote:
Has everyone that regularly posts here from that region been accounted for?
IDK, Gnarly just told me he is on the phone with Cone's wife. I'll update as soon as I get more info. Big Smile

Edit: Updated my posts a few posts above this one. Big Smile 

leaftye
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fnsooner wrote:
The NYC Marathon has been cancelled. At least symbolism is still alive.

 

Workers were understandably upset about getting tasked to prepare the area for a marathon instead of helping those in need.  Some hoteliers have already refused to honor reservations for marathoners if any local resident needed their room for temporary lodging.

The low mode should be lower.

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SecaRob
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JohnnyMac wrote:

I agree with you on all accounts.  I am sick and tired of hearing people scream for the government to wipe their collective @sses when they poop their shorts. They decided not to evacuate when they were told to, so they need to live with that horrible decision and STFU.  Who knows, maybe they figured on some easy looting if they hung back and let everyone else leave.

Well said JMac!

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JohnnyMac wrote:

I agree with you on all accounts.  I am sick and tired of hearing people scream for the government to wipe their collective @sses when they poop their shorts. They decided not to evacuate when they were told to, so they need to live with that horrible decision and STFU.  Who knows, maybe they figured on some easy looting if they hung back and let everyone else leave.

Well, I wouldn’t have used those exact words but I absolutely agree with you, JohnnyMac. We live in a world where this attitude is increasingly commonplace, unfortunately.
One thing that was drummed into me ever since I was a young ‘un is, “the world doesn’t owe you a living”. We owe it to ourselves and others to take responsibility for our actions. Always.

Lights out! That's when things get interesting...

pretzy
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every man did that which was right in his own eyes.

While I agree in principle that people should evacuate when told, I also know there can be many reasons why some people won’t do so, foolish as that may seem to others. And it isn’t just a matter or some won’t leave, some cannot, or feel they cannot.

In a disaster of this scale, there will be casualties. It is pretty much unavoidable. Whether it is unacceptable to ask emergency teams to help them is probably not for us to say. I think is is standard protocol not to place such teams in immediate danger, but I am sure many would volunteer to do so themselves.

What matters most now is getting on with the cleanup, helping those affected to put their lives back in order and doing what we can to help, and to make sure if possible that in the future we will do a better job.

Sure, mistakes were, are and will be made. Hopefully we can learn something from that.

Sandy was a much larger storm than Katrina, but there has been a tiny number of casualties in comparison. One is too many, but less than 75 so far is nothing short of a miracle in the circumstances.

Please, let us not be angry at others, but thankful for what we have and those who were spared.

The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

leaftye
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With the looting the occurred after Katrina, I could empathize with those that were reluctant to abandon their homes.

The personal responsibility issue extends to those that built their homes in storm prone areas without adequate insurance.  It's even worse for the expensive homes.  Their insurance is the federal government.

The low mode should be lower.

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fucked They know that area is prown to weather problems. If they choose to live there it is ON Their OWN dime! Why should we pay to clean up for their problems? We pay higher insurance on our homes to clean up their mess? They were told to leave and they stayed. I once lived where tornadoes were comon, then moved solved my own problem! J) J) J) J) J) J) J) J) J) J) J) J) J) J) J)

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phosphor
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People bitch when under stress and their world is turned upside down. It ain't pretty when humans come "unglued". I can cut them some slack. I just looked in the mirror...and didn't see perfect.

People even bitch about other people bitchin'. Go figure. It's human nature.

Staten Island, by the way....it's an entirely different universe there. The normal rules of logic don't apply. No offense intended to SI'ers.

pretzy
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Yes, that would work. NY is not such a safe place to live, we think you should all go live somewhere else…

The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

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Chicago X
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Thanks for the comments and varying viewpoints.

There has been support, either pledged or actual, from other countries - as was there after Katrina.

Longtime allies, such as the U.K., Germany, and Australia have offered their help, with Australia's assistance package to be in the $10Mil USD range, IIRC. 

Some pledges will be turned down, as was the generous Bangladeshi-offered assistance of $1Mil USD, after Katrina.  In addition, the offer of 'assistance' from groups such as the Taliban's is not welcome here.  

 

I was very impressed in the insistence of the New York officials that pets would be welcomed to evac shelters.  This lack of a similar response was a noted factor in past storm evacuations.

 

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