Help with simple Soldering.

Flashlight Modding and DIY Parts
1

So for the past month I have been watching Youtube videos and reading forum posts, gearing up to try my hand at soldering so I can fix some light i have that are broken.

I have:
-Aoyue 936 (with default pencil tip that comes with it)
-Radioshack 60/40 .032 diameter Rosin Core solder
-Helping hand magnifier

Problem #1:
First, I have cleaned the tip of the solder-iron, but cannot tin the tip. Solder just balls up and falls off. I have my heat set at 700F after failing at 500F

Problem#2:
I clip the driver into the “helping hand magnifer” I place the bare part of the wire onto the “” pad of the driver, then I hold the hot iron on top of the wire in an attempt to heat the pad and the wire. The wire never gets hot enough to make the solder flow correctly to make a joint from the wire to the driver pad. the solder usually globs up and clings to the nearest component. Sometimes the solder stick gets stuck to the components while the solder iron is still applied! I cannot figure out why its poorly heating up the components, but im guessing its due to the fact I cannot tin my iron for proper heat transfer.

Question 1: What do I need to get the solder to stick to the tip of the Iron?

Question 2: What is the right temperature to set the AOYUE936 to to solder typical wires to driver/emitter stars? seems I have to have the tip on the components for over a minute before things start to flow/melt, but its usually melting the stuff that was left over on the pad from previous failed attempts.

Question 3: Am I completely failing because I’m not using Flux, but only relying on the rosin core of the solder?

Question 4: this AOYUE fits hakko 936 tips, right now im using T18-I style sharp pencil tip. SHould I get a small chisel style for faster heating of joints?

I get so frustrated with what seems should be a simple task - ‘Heat components/add solder/done.’ I appreciate anyone who takes the time out of their day to give me a few pointers. thanks!

2

Try cleaning the tip of your soldering iron with a bit of sandpaper (or fingernail file, or emery board...) and see if you can get it to tin properly afterward. You shouldn't need to use flux for normal tasks. Make sure you tin the wire and the solder pad on the driver before attempting to solder the wire in place.

I like using this soldering paste for this type of work as it melts and bonds very easily:

http://www.manafont.com/product_info.php/lodestar-soldering-paste-50g-p-599

3

I second cleaning your tip with sandpaper or something similar. I'll scrub mine with a wire brush (toothbrush size ones available at Harbor Freight, possibly Lowes) when I first warm it up.

-Garry

4

So with this Paste, should I need a Syringe to apply? Im guessing I just add a bead to the driver pad, then I place the wire onto the blob, than add heated iron until it flows and then youre done? Seems much easier than with the hard-solder-coil type solder. Ill definately look into this, and clean the tip with sandpaper.

5

>>>>>I have my heat set at 700F after failing at 500F

500 degrees won’t work. Not hot enough. 600 might barely work, but that’s still too low. These all seem to be symptoms of a iron that is not hot enough. Try 800 degrees F. In fact, crank it all the way up to maybe 1000 and see what happens there. Won’t hurt anything. Well, it shouldn’t. If the dial goes to 1000, then it’s supposed to go that hot. Let it heat up for maybe 5 minutes before trying it.

I mentioned on another thread, that these temp settings can be way off. Not saying they are, but they can be. Solder should pretty much flow immediately when you touch the tip to the solder (not already melted solder on a PCB. That sometimes takes much more heat.) With my weller wtcpt station with an 800-degree tip, I can solder all day without even waiting one second between jobs. I don’t know anything about your station, but just about any station should be able to do the same, or something is wrong.

Be careful about heating up drivers again and again. Those chips are heat sensitive and eventually will fail if heated too many times or too hot. Trick is to get in and out of there fast so nothing on the PCB gets too hot. Practice on something. Do NOT solder on anything you care about the first time. Practice. It will take a few times to get it right and to get a feel for the new station. they all act a little differently.

Do you have another tip? Tips can go south. In fact, with the wtcpt, they only last maybe 4 months. Buh that’s using em 8 hours a day, 6 days a week.

It helps to sand the tip as another poster said, but I have never heard of a tip that didn’t tin immediately without sanding.

6

I should have said that about 800 degrees is what I use for a temp. But once again, just because the dial says 800 doesn’t mean it’s really 800. Like I said, start at the highest temp on the dial. Work backwards, lowering the temp in increments. You’re looking for a temp where the solder melts pretty much immediately when it touches the tip.

WEAR SAFETY GLASSES. Solder can spit molten metal everywhere without warning. Not big pieces, but enough to mess up an eye if it gets in there. I also always wear cotton shirts or a work apron. It’s surprising how far that solder can pop. If you wear a synthetic shirt (nylon or whatever), you could end up with many tiny holes on it where the solder landed. Found this out the hard way. Took me a while to figure out that microscopic moths were not attacking my synthetic-fiber-mix shirts. It was solder eruptions.

And as with anything hot, BE CAREFUL.

Hope this helps.

7

The type of solder you’re using has one helluva effect on results. Get leaded 63/37 solder like PtkPilot advises. That man knows what he’s talking about, no? Then play with yer temps. I find that I don’t need to crank up the iron to max (which can be bad for your tips especially) or anywhere near it. I’m soldering at about 680 to 715 and it’s just dandy or even less than that. Btw, when yer just tinning the tip 250 - 300 is adequate. Or at least that’s what I’ve discovered.

Just sayin’…………………….

8

[quote=Blinders] So with this Paste, should I need a Syringe to apply? Im guessing I just add a bead to the driver pad, then I place the wire onto the blob, than add heated iron until it flows and then youre done? Seems much easier than with the hard-solder-coil type solder. Ill definately look into this, and clean the tip with sandpaper. [/quote]

I use a toothpick to apply a tiny bit where I want the solder to lay down, and then touch the tip of my iron to it and it melt and make a nice shiny patch of solder to adhere to. Use a tiny bit to tin the end of your wire, then place the tinned wire on the solder that was already added to the driver pad and touch your soldering iron to the wire. It should very quickly melt and flow together with the solder on the driver.

It melts at low temps which helps keep you from overheating the components on your driver like was mentioned...

Because it has so much flux in it, it can spit and pop when you heat it, so be careful... Safety glasses are always a good idea when soldering...

9

Let me make these suggestions.
For problem 1….
Go back to the shack and get one of these. Back your heat off to 650 F or so, clean the tip on your sponge to get everything off you can, stick it in this stuff ( see image below) and roll it around…sort of scrub the tip on this …. I think it will tin. … THEN….

For Problem 2… Put a little flux on your wire…. tin the wire… do that by just adding a little solder to your tip and hold it on the wire… it should take the solder.

Do the same on the pad… a TINY BIT of flux and tin the pad. Then do what you have been doing at about 650 and it should work. If not… tell me what it is doing and I’ll try to help. Good Luck. Dan.

Edit… Keep your fingers off the bare wire after tinning it. Your body oil can make it not solder well. Also… if you are trying on the same driver that you tried before… clean the pad with a little alcohol and a Qtip before tinning…it is most likely dirty.

10

+1 on getting the tip tinner.
+1 on good solder. If I’m using lead, I like 63/37.
+1000 on using some flux. I don’t know if Rat Shack sells them, but any good electronics place (or eBay, etc) will have flux pens like this:

http://www.kester.com/SideMenu/Products/HandSolderingMaterials/FluxPens.aspx

The 186 is a basic RMA flux that is very good for general purpose electronics soldering.

11

+1 Have to agree with the Radio Shack Tip cleaner/Tinner. It works fantastic.

If solder balls up and falls off after using the tip cleaner, there's a problem with the tip itself. Change the tip. You can sand it and clean on it, or you can just get another tip. Also there is a small chance that your unit is not functioning properly. If it is going to maximum temperature, even though you have set it to a temperature, the solder might not even stick on the tip. There is such a thing as too hot and solder will not migrate on a too hot surface. If it were too cold, it just plain would not melt.

I use 60/40 rosin core .023 wire and never use any flux for anything, just the rosin in the wire. I have never had a problem soldering any copper with that, or any star pad, but I will say that it will not work well with some wire. I use only silver plated copper wire and it takes solder like a dream, (because of the silver plating). I don't use anything else. The cost difference is just not worth the hassle. It's cheap and can be gotten on ebay. I use ebay seller navships. Silver coated copper wire with teflon insulation.

It really does sound to me that your soldering unit is faulty. With a temperature of 700 degrees (better off at 600 or 650), solder should flow to a wire almost instantly and flowing solder onto a star pad should take only seconds. I would check out the whole unit first. Is the cord loose in the holder? Is the tip loose in the holder? Can you double check temperature? If not, then I would remove the tip, clean the end that goes into the iron, reinsert and tighten it back down. Try again. If no go, then change the tip out. If no go, then there's probably a problem with the unit, or with a runaway heater, or a bad thermocouple (if there even is one).

Those are my thoughts, for what they are worth.

12

Use more flux. It is absolutely the beginner's best friend.

13

Alright! Thanks for the tips so far guys! So Old-Lumens, I checked my tip (as this is a brand new stations, ive only tried to use it three times now) and the Tip holder part was in fact loose. Not really loose, but it was threaded wrong, and I could move the tip holder from side to side, fixed that.

I think the wire im using might have something to do with my problems. I could not get solder to flow to the wire itself no matter how long I held the iron to the wire. Heres what im doing: Im using some old (but never used) thin speaker cable, appears to be copper. I clip off some of the wire sleeve and use my fingers to twist the wire. Then I attempt to heat it by putting the wire into the “helping hand” and holding the solder in one hand while holding the iron against the wire. I put the solder against the wire, and not the tip. It never flows. but the instant i touch the solder to the tip, it balls up and drops right off.
I’m thinking a mix between finger oils, and the wrong wire are my problem there?

So, I went to the shack, bought a small jar of rosin flux just in case, sanded the tip of the iron down really good (was black now is silver), bought some 63/37 lead rosin core solder, screwed everything in tight with the iron… Unfortunately my RShack didnt have tip cleaner/tinner.

Now I’m looking for the wire you suggested, Old-Lumens. Seems NAVSHIPS only has 22 AWG of silver plated oxygen free copper wire with kynar insulation, Will this work? If so Im going to buy a 25ft roll. Is 22AWG too big?

The only thing now is to wait for my LED’s and new drivers to come in, because I destroyed the old ones.

I really appreciate the info everyone has given me.

[edit] by the way, while i was at the Rshack, i found this Thermal Wire Glue, that resembles a tube of superglue, but says its able to withstand heats of over 500°C or about 1,000°F. Says its perfect for small electronic soldering jobs. Do you think this graphite glue would have too much resistance? I readin another thread a similar paste was used to glue the driver to the pill seat with success in a Sipik. Nogo for a actual solder joint wire to pad?
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=12925060
[/edit]

14

Try this link to all his stock, he has a bunch, from 18ga to 26ga and from 5' to 25'

Most of what he has is titled silver teflon wire 19 strand.

15

thanks for your expertise!

Just purchased this:
25 feet 26 AWG Silver Teflon Wire White Solid 1 Strand From Navships, Hopefully the 1 strand and 26AWG wont be too resistant. Sorry, I’ve got flashlights and very little knowledge of current flow. Im thinking it will be fine.

16

I had problems with a wireless solder iron myself, it would heat up like normal and melt the first batch of solder and overheat or something and won’t get back to temps to do any re-soldering or melt any more solder. I would hold or reinsert the AA batteries and redo the whole procedure. I thought it was the pencil tip being coated etc… I tried scratching using sandpaper which helped but didn’t’ solve the ‘not melting the solder’ point.

Then went and bought a generic 10 dollar one. Plug it in, let is sit on stand for 10-15 minutes on it’s stand. Put solder on the part u want it to adhere to. Then use the soldering iron to heat up solder and hold it in place for a second and wah lah! Place Iron back to stand and let it cool. If you’re not melting solder near instantly it’s not hot enough.

Melting solder into balls and dropping them to place can be done but not recommended for hug globs cuz they could fall off. I would just use the hold and press method. Worst comes to worst work at a clean workstation with gloves & eye protection.

17

Dip the wire tips in flux. Then apply heat+solder.

18

Amen ....

I've said it a thousand times ... hardcore professionals will say you don't need it ..Shouldn't use it etc ..blah blah blah

I don't know what's in soldering paste but my guess is ....flux

tin everything and then add flux or soldering paste back on anything you plan on soldering ..tin your tip and keep it clean . i dip my tip in flux whcih immediately cleans it and then add solder to it than go to the work .. I've heard not to sand or file on tips .. I've never had to except on really old crappy soldering irons and never on irons I've used te way i just said to ..

Rojos right .. flux is the beginners friend

you should learn to love the pssst sound the tip makes when you dip your tip in flux

19

Why is everyone straying from rosin core? Whats the issue with the stuff, everyone seems to use paste flux as apposed to rosin core….I love the stuff and have just started soldering just curious why it isnt reccomended.

20

The OP is already using rosin core, but he's having trouble, which is common for beginners, so we recommended that he use additional flux.