Just testing the water to see if this is even feasible:
Basically what I want to do is have a number of LED copper boards (100-1000?) for XMLs 32mm in diameter and 2mm thick made up (same size as many of the larger single XML torches and able to be ground down to the right size for smaller hosts).
I am hoping that these can be made to the same quality with better thermal properties then the 16mm ones that come per-mounted with XMLs from LEDtech. The idea being that you can give something like the STL-V2 a 10% boost in performance (or run-time) and the ability to take allot more current with a simple <$5 board swap (I see a STL-V2 with a de-domed XM-L2 at 5 Amps…).
The challenge from here is getting enough interest to make doing this worth while, finding a company able to produce them to the right specs and cheaply enough. If I can get them done for less then $3 each (no profit on my part) I will be in for 20 or so…
First of all, I think a smaller diameter board would be better and more versatile. I also remember seeing some data on the size of boards that showed that there is not that large of a difference between a 16mm board and a 100mm board, the important thing is a good connection to the heatsink.
Second of all, the set up costs to make metal pcbs is very high; at least that is what PPTK told me.
But if you do find a way to successfully do this, count me in!
Although I know pure copper is not hard to cut, working with parts this small is a PITA. All the lights I would want to upgrade use a 16mm star, so that’s where my vote would go.
I’m in for at least 5, regardless of size. Heck, smaller ones will be cheaper if they’re all Cu.
Edit- 33 to 33.16mm would fit snugly (a good thing) in most D Mags. On the bright side, a 26mm PCB should cost less while being a perfectly snug fit in C Mags made after 2001. Thoughts from your friendly, neighborhood madman
Looks like an X9, but a couple of other thrower style lights have that same design...
I'm very interested in copper LED PCB's, maybe a couple of 32's, but more of a need for 20's and 16's. Of course the thickness is an issue. I'd be interested for the minimum impact - I can reflow LED's but handling height issues with reflector/lens mods is mostly beyond me for now. Of course this may be difficult to accomodate everyones needs, but in general, I thought copper PCB's were superior but why aren't they available anywhere? It would be great if you can get them in the various sizes we could use directly.
Looks like the X9 to me too although I think there are quite a few larger XML torches with them (I think the STL-V2 / SN6X-2 use them), in fact I saw those boards for sale somewhere not to long ago.
To be honest I am surprised there is no decent readily available 16mm copper boards on the market as I think they would sell very well. LEDtech sells the copper mounted XMLs for €1 more then the normal one and even assuming no markup I am sure there would be the right demand needed to sell 1000 or so in a short enough space of time given a price tag of say $3 each.
The problem at the moment is I haven’t a clue about where to find a company who can make them to the right specs, would a normal PCB producer be able to make them if they were supplied with pre-cut disks?. As for material costs: a disk of copper 32mm across and 2mm thick weighs in at around 15 grams so even assuming a high price for high purity copper I can’t see material costs being higher then $0.5 per 32mm disk. Will do a bit more surfing and see what I find.
EDIT: Found something that looks promising.
These guys do copper PCBs and others and they are also US based which would make things easier as that’s where most demand will probably be. Will flick them an email inquiry to try sound out prices / feasibility etc tomorrow morning (midday Monday for those in the US)
Right…. have sent a inquiry off to the above company regarding 16mm (1.5mm thick) and 32mm (2mm thick) boards for the XM and XP footprints. Will let you guys know what I know once I know anything.
Another thing to consider if this does go ahead is that it may be easier if these are shipped to someone locally / in the US and then distributed from there (costs to ship to and from NZ aren’t very favorable).
btw, is it only me or someone else thought that having 7xXP-G(2) R5 on
32mm base would be very interesting :bigsmile: something like scaru’s bazuka
but wiht XP-G’s!!!
P.S. I really hate situation when something cost for example 4-5-6$ and shipping to me is like 40-70$
so the led could cost 3$ (excellent price if you ask me) but if shipping is 200%/piece then I am off
Just mod'ed an X9 for someone, reflowed a U3 1C and put in a KD V2 driver at 3.8A - wow, what a difference in that thing! Love the host. Ordered the look-alike from WallBuys on the 50% Xmax eve deal for myself. I was a bit concerned about the LED PCB, but it's big and thick (think 2.1mm) - sort of equivalent to an aluminum housing, but it has a ton of space in the cavity below. That would definitely benefit from a copper PCB replacement!!
It happened... At work now, but I did before/after ceiling bounce measurements and the difference was significant. Don't think I got pics of the actual mods though. Wasn't setup for beam shot pics -- just got wall beam shots setup yesterday, did the X9 mod bout 2 weeks ago, just before xmas.
Ohh, found the PM, here's a snippet:
"For the X9, decided to go with 3.74A (KD V2 3.04A + 2 7135 350ma). On a ceiling bounce got 154 lux, compared to 98 lux before the mods. This puts it above my HD2010 (w/U3 1C) and not so far off from my modded Crelant 7G9 at 162. A short test outdoors confirmed those numbers – better than the HD2010, close to th 7G9. The X9 appears to have less spill than the 7G9, so it’s distance should be well up there. I ran the tests with a Panasonic unprotected (short) cell. Still need to do the switch mod to shorten it, making more room for the battery. Also did a 6 minute test, standing the light by itself – it gets pretty warm – was hoping it would do better. If you have the light in your hand, the temp is tolerable but there is heat build-up near the top end of the battery compartment. Now if you held the light for the 6 minutes, the heat build-up would be less because your hand actually helps pulling away heat. I left the small spring on the driver because it offers some compression and protection of the driver, so need to reduce the tail cap end by 2-3 mm’s. I’ll let you know when it’s all done, just thought these test results were interesting — the light is doing real well with the 2 mods – emitter and driver, and has an excellent beam pattern. I used Arctic Ceramique on the star mount and used 22 gauge wires, heavier than originals."
Update: the more I think about it, a copper PCB in this light would be a killer. Run it at 4.5A, under the copper PCB, mount another circular hunk of copper pressed/epoxied/thermal greased into the frame of the host, and wow, perfect setup for a serious budget based thrower with a dedomed XM-L2 U2!! Maybe can compete with the 1StopThrowUp (1Stop De-Dome) shop...
Get those copper PCB's, please!! I will take a bunch!
