Laser lights to replace LEDs?

[RaceR86]

This might be old news for many, but anyone have thoughts on laser lights?
Im talking about the stuff BMW and probably other car manufacturers are putting in their future headlights… (for all I know, some may use it already)
http://www.bmw-i.com/en_ww/bmw-i8/#laser-light-leading-the-way-to-the-future

I have no idea on specs. But the headlights on I8 sure looks nice. Could some of the upcoming high-end flashlights maybe implement that technology in the future and have benefits that exceeds LED technology?

Laser Light. Leading the way to the future

The BMW i8 Concept is not only fast and extremely fuel efficient, it also leads the way in innovative vehicle light technology… For the first time BMW introduces as part of the BMW i8 Concept the newly developed Laser Light. Headlights that are more efficient than LED lights, highly flexible, ten times smaller, pleasant to the eye and absolutely safe.

By definition, laser lighting is radically different from sunlight, and also from the various types of artificial lighting in common use today. Laser lighting is monochromatic and it is also a “coherent” light source. As a result, laser lighting can produce a near-parallel beam with an intensity a thousand times greater than that of conventional LEDs. Also, the high inherent efficiency of laser lighting means that laser headlights have less than half the energy consumption of LED headlights. Simply put, laser make the BMW i8 Concept even more efficient.
The intensity of laser light poses no possible risks to humans, animals or wildlife when used in car lighting. Amongst other things, this is because the light is not emitted directly, but is first converted into a form that is suitable for use in road traffic. The resulting light is very bright and white. It is also very pleasant to the eye and has a very low energy consumption.
A further feature of laser technology, which has important implications, is the size of the individual diodes. This opens up all sorts of new possibilities when integrating the light source into the vehicle. These size advantages could be used to reduce the depth of the headlight unit, and so open up new possibilities for headlight positioning and body styling.

[Chicago_X]

I bet we see something using that concept in a handheld illumination device within a year, two at the outside.

[scaru]

@Chicago X

I bet we see something using that concept in a handheld illumination device within a year, two at the outside.

I do have a green laser that can be defocused enough so it is kind of spotlightish. :P I think the problem is there aren't white laser diodes.

[Jalben]

Looking into it, they demo’d this tech in 2011, with production estimates for 2013, so should be out soon. Firing the laser into a phosphor and then reflecting the the diffused wavelength shifted light with a reflector mirror, recoil style. Tech demo in this video:

BMW Laser Headlamp Demonstration

[Bort]

there is no information on that link on how it works, and in my experience, concepts like this that extoll virtues but with no explanation of the underlying technology usually evaporate into ether

[Jalben]

I think you’re reply was to the OP and not the video link I provided, but I watched the video again anyways to make sure I wasn’t crazy. For those too lazy to watch the whole 3 mins, here’s the jist: Laser diode off mirror into plate of phosphor, diffused light from phosphor gathered by a lens then reflected recoil style out the front. Laser diode surface area 10x10 microns, which is why they claim brighter than the 1mm square of LEDs.

[SashiX]

Very beautiful and futuristic concept :heart_eyes:

[Bort]

@Jalben

I think you’re reply was to the OP and not the video link I provided, but I watched the video again anyways to make sure I wasn’t crazy. For those too lazy to watch the whole 3 mins, here’s the jist: Laser diode off mirror into plate of phosphor, diffused light from phosphor gathered by a lens then reflected recoil style out the front. Laser diode surface area 10x10 microns, which is why they claim brighter than the 1mm square of LEDs.

you are correct, you must have posted the video while i was writing my reply

[leaftye]

@Jalben

Looking into it, they demo’d this tech in 2011, with production estimates for 2013, so should be out soon. Firing the laser into a phosphor and then reflecting the the diffused wavelength shifted light with a reflector mirror, recoil style. Tech demo in this video:

I'm glad you found that video. I looked this up before I found information saying it shot the laser off of some phosphors. I didn't save the source though.

Since they're still lighting up phosphors, I don't see why this would be inherently brighter or more efficient.

What I do think would be promising is if automotive headlights started using micro motorized mirrors like is used in video projectors and projection televisions. That should allow all the light to be used and directed where it's needed when it's needed, versus using a blockoff plate for the dipped beam and using motors to move the entire beam pattern around. That should net huge OTF gains.

[Jalben]

@leaftye

Since they’re still lighting up phosphors, I don’t see why this would be inherently brighter or more efficient.

Lasers are more efficent than LEDs, with some in the 600 lumen/watt range compared to Cree LEDs which are still doing well over 200 lumen/watt. And putting that much brightness out of a 10 micron square surface guarentees more originating lux, since it’s a laser.

But you are right to question, since they are seperating that from the fact of going thru a phosphor. I’d have to imagine that it acts like a diffusing film if nothing else so the lux is gone, which they clearly indicate in the video by saying it’s safe now to look directly into post reflection. I’d be very interested in some OTF numbers with ANSI ratings.

[scaru]

@Jalben

@leaftye

Since they’re still lighting up phosphors, I don’t see why this would be inherently brighter or more efficient.

Lasers are more efficent than LEDs, with some in the “600 lumen/watt”:Sam's Laser FAQ - Diode Lasers range compared to Cree LEDs which are still doing well over 200 lumen/watt. And putting that much brightness out of a 10 micron square surface guarentees more originating lux, since it’s a laser. But you are right to question, since they are seperating that from the fact of going thru a phosphor. I’d have to imagine that it acts like a diffusing film if nothing else so the lux is gone, which they clearly indicate in the video by saying it’s safe now to look directly into post reflection. I’d be very interested in some OTF numbers with ANSI ratings.

Yes, but one of the reasons lasers are so efficient is because green lasers (555 nm) are at the peak of what our eyes perceive.

[Slim_Pickens]

@scaru

Yes, but one of the reasons lasers are so efficient is because green lasers (555 nm) are at the peak of what our eyes perceive.

Exactly. I haven’t actually looked into it myself, but I doubt efficacy has anything on a modern LED once you include phosphor conversion efficiency.

[Tecmo]

Beamshots or it doesn’t exist

[leaftye]

While color the laser color is will likely depend on which is the most efficient in itself, or which is most efficient at exciting the phosphors.

This reminds me of a recent thread about reflecting light in a zoomie back to the LED to further excites the phosphors. It also reminds me of the way CRT's work, and that led me to learn about LPD's, laser phosphor displays.

When I first heard about this, I thought it'd be about something like this, which I do think could be more efficient.

http://ledsmagazine.com/news/8/7/6

[Jalben]

@Slim Pickens

@scaru

Yes, but one of the reasons lasers are so efficient is because green lasers (555 nm) are at the peak of what our eyes perceive.

Exactly. I haven’t actually looked into it myself, but I doubt efficacy has anything on a modern LED once you include phosphor conversion efficiency.

I think this has confused me. Because it’s spectrum is narrower, 600 lumens of green is less than 200 lumens of white?

[chrisc]

I’m actually planning to buy a 400mw combined laser that is an RGB laser that looks white. No idea what I’ll use it for but it looks cool.

$140 ish to the door seems rude not to!

[djozz]

Perhaps after the conversion by phosfors this concept may not be much more efficient than a led, but I can imagine the surface brightness of this light source can be made much higher, making this a leap forwards for directed light applications (in BLF this equals: throwers )

[veer (vēer)]

@Jalben

I think you’re reply was to the OP and not the video link I provided, but I watched the video again anyways to make sure I wasn’t crazy. For those too lazy to watch the whole 3 mins, here’s the jist: Laser diode off mirror into plate of phosphor, diffused light from phosphor gathered by a lens then reflected recoil style out the front. Laser diode surface area 10x10 microns, which is why they claim brighter than the 1mm square of LEDs.

Wasnt it more like this - laser reflects back from that front thingy into the mirror from which then the light is being reflected outwards /towards the enivronment? And theres phosphor between that front thingy and the laser.

[RaceR86]

I have been following this car a bit since 2011. Was not into LEDs back then though…

Not sure if the production model will have those lights though. Current test mule does not have that fancy looking design… So maybe the I8 will not utilize laser light technology either…

……Either way. The laser light technology might have some potential…

[veer (vēer)]

@leaftye

I think the front thingy was the phospher in the LED position of a recoil flashlight.

Yeah, might be, I probably misunderstood it because at first he used piece of phosphor that he was holding in his hands.