Fake Trustfire Flames - Death to the general myth

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Aalsen
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Fake Trustfire Flames - Death to the general myth

I read that DX sells fake trustfire flames, at least that they did. I dont know how it is now, but whatever. Also that there are a lot of fake flames out on the market.

This video did not give the flames any better reputation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwtAR1Jmquk
This battery was fake though.

I recently bought some Trustfire 18650 3000mAh from Fasttech, and those are genuine, even though they measure 2500~2600 mAh. (that’s what they write on the info about this batteries on their site) But who cares, it is the best batteries for this price.

I removed the coating, and this is what it looks like, and should look like:

You can see the protection on the yellow tape-thing going from top to the end.

18sixfifty
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Thanks for the info.

I’m a junky, I mod lights so I can sell lights so I can buy more light to mod so I can sell lights to buy more lights to mod.

NightCrawl
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You would have known that its protected without having to take it apart. Just take a close look at the negative end.

Besides, these cells might be "OK" for cheap cells, but there are cells with a better price-performance ratio.

didge
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NightCrawl wrote:
… there are cells with a better price-performance ratio.

Agree, only a couple of dollars more for a pair of Sanyo cells.

tatasal
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I have a seen lot of cheap protecteds, the ones that goes along with clone 2×18650 lights with charger combo. What is more important is the cell being used.

Tecmo
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Prices on the good cells keep dropping and the cheap ones keep going up.

ruffles
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Even if your TFs turn out to actually measure 25-2600, the fact that you got decent ones doesn’t change the fact that plenty of people get crappy ones. And there’s no way to know before they’re in your hands.

Panasonics and Sanyos from reputable sellers for me.


 

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Interesting. That guy trying to find the protection circuit “inside” the battery….

I have been using TF flames for years. No problems.

Yes, Sanyo or other reputable brands… the better

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Aalsen
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Fasttech has better batteries, but the price is double as well. Where can i find better batteries for just a couple of bucks more that ships international?

The sanyo and panasonic batteries ive seen is much more expensive…

didge
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Aalsen wrote:
Fasttech has better batteries, but the price is double as well. Where can i find better batteries for just a couple of bucks more that ships international?

The sanyo and panasonic batteries ive seen is much more expensive…

Fasttech. Trustfire “3000” are $8.78 for two, Sanyo 2600 are $11.03 for two.

$2.25 more expensive.

gen1.3_
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Sanyo 2600mah are better and roughly $2 more with coupon code.

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didge wrote:
Aalsen wrote:
Fasttech has better batteries, but the price is double as well. Where can i find better batteries for just a couple of bucks more that ships international?

The sanyo and panasonic batteries ive seen is much more expensive…

Fasttech. Trustfire “3000” are $8.78 for two, Sanyo 2600 are $11.03 for two.

$2.25 more expensive.


+1 beat me to it Smile

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before you guys say the sanyo’s are better..take a look at the tests..real tf 3k’s are an impressive battery

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pounder wrote:
before you guys say the sanyo's are better..take a look at the tests..real tf 3k's are an impressive battery !http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg100/dave_vega/a8f79bd1-54f6-4773-9b...

You chose wrong one, those are 2800mAh UR18650ZT.

 

This is real one

Aalsen
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The Sanyo cells are just slightly different in execution. I dont know too much about understanding that graph, but to me it looks like 0,13Ah in the difference between those batteries, its not much. If you buy like three pack of those, ill keep my $6,75, and maybe put in another 2 bucks and buy one more pack of batteries Wink

Anyways, to me it was either those Flames, or Panasonic 3400mAh. Between those batteries you can se (and i bet experience) difference in execution. With my budget for now, half the price was doable.
I just dont se why to use more money to buy the “same” batteries. If it was just one pack, sure.

I know, some of you guys dont trust the flames, and maybe had bad experience with fakes ones and stuff, and are only buying from known produsers, but these are genuine and ill just wait and se if i get sweat under the forthskin or not.

Edit: Wait, the Flames did better?

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The peformance of the from HKJ tested TF3000 batteries is really good, no doubt. The sanyo FM is better but it is a unprotected in the test and this makes a huge difference...so we shouldnt think that this is the best ever battery.(if you doubt compare the NCR18650B with the protected NCR18650 at 3A+)

You still doubt?

 

look at that it proofs that the panasonic 3400 are faaaaaar better...

 

Oh wait a moment they aren't so much better

 

What should us say this...? Diagrams lie, you must have the ability to interpret them.

 

 

But the problem is you never know how your TF3000 behaves, there is a lot of difference between the batteries not sure if they are really fake or just bad genuine ones. The sanyos do a much better job in consistency. I bought the TF3000 from fasttech as well and the protection circuit on one cell died, FET burned...after using them on 4A discharge and a bit heat.

I wanted to buy them forever and after it seemed to be "genuine" good cells on Fasttech I ordered instantly. So if you want consistent quality go for brand batteries, if you want cool looking batteries go for TF3000. Everyone should make this decision by them self.

And at all
The thread OP doesnt make any sense to me. How does this proof that they are genuine? I tell you it doesn't... You really haven't won anything with ripping the wrap, but you have lost the coolest wrap on earth. Oh man they look awesome, if someone would cell this wrap i would buy 10m at least and wrap everything(including salami) in it.

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From my experience with trustfire batteries. I use to think all those guys at cpf were crazy spending that much money on a AW cell when TF’s where half the price, They always seemed to perform quite well for me.
They where at one point decent batteries for the money and you found a good set looks like and time will tell how good of a set you got. Its my understanding that they are recycled cells. Someone correct me if I’am wrong.
I use to use trustfire’s with flame’s all the time. They consistently where decent performers. Not the best battery but maybe the best for the money.
Then not to long ago I received some flame trustfire’s from KD that were crap. I fully charged them then proceeded to discharge them to find out what the true capacity was. Set the charger to 3 amps discharge, when the charger hit 3 amps it suddenly stopped with the 3v cut off point. Well, thought maybe I received a bad cell so I done the same with another KD trustfire. The charger cut off without even hitting 3 amps. These brand new trustfire’s that I had just ordered would not even hold 3v at a 3 amp discharge. Pretty much useless in a single cell XML light.
I will not buy any TF again as long as they are sanyo’s and Panasonics at places like fasttech for a few dollars more than the TF’s. You will save money in the long run by buying quality batteries. They will outlast, over the years and out perform cheap cells. Just my 2 cents.

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The dude in that vid is a tweaker.

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Aalsen
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Werner wrote:

The peformance of the from HKJ tested TF3000 batteries is really good, no doubt. The sanyo FM is better but it is a unprotected in the test and this makes a huge difference…so we shouldnt think that this is the best ever battery.(if you doubt compare the NCR18650B with the protected NCR18650 at 3A+)

You still doubt?

 

look at that it proofs that the panasonic 3400 are faaaaaar better…

 

Oh wait a moment they aren’t so much better

 

What should us say this…? Diagrams lie, you must have the ability to interpret them.

 

 

But the problem is you never know how your TF3000 behaves, there is a lot of difference between the batteries not sure if they are really fake or just bad genuine ones. The sanyos do a much better job in consistency. I bought the TF3000 from fasttech as well and the protection circuit on one cell died, FET burned…after using them on 4A discharge and a bit heat.

I wanted to buy them forever and after it seemed to be “genuine” good cells on Fasttech I ordered instantly. So if you want consistent quality go for brand batteries, if you want cool looking batteries go for TF3000. Everyone should make this decision by them self.

And at all
The thread OP doesnt make any sense to me. How does this proof that they are genuine? I tell you it doesn’t… You really haven’t won anything with ripping the wrap, but you have lost the coolest wrap on earth. Oh man they look awesome, if someone would cell this wrap i would buy 10m at least and wrap everything(including salami) in it.

I dont doubt a bit that the Panasonics are better Silly
And i do not know exactly how to read this graphs, or interpet. Dont know much about batteries at all actually, just a little.
“I bought the TF3000 from fasttech as well and the protection circuit on one cell died, FET burned…after using them on 4A discharge and a bit heat” – You mean that the protection died after charging them with 4 amps? Im waiting for a Soshine 4 amps charger (4 slots) The batteries will be charged with 1 amp each. Do you think that would kill the protection circuit or the battery? (Flames batteries)

Edit: And by the way, will the charger charge 4amps to the battery if i only have one battery in it?

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moderator007 wrote:
From my experience with trustfire batteries. I use to think all those guys at cpf were crazy spending that much money on a AW cell when TF’s where half the price, They always seemed to perform quite well for me. They where at one point decent batteries for the money and you found a good set looks like and time will tell how good of a set you got. Its my understanding that they are recycled cells. Someone correct me if I’am wrong. I use to use trustfire’s with flame’s all the time. They consistently where decent performers. Not the best battery but maybe the best for the money. Then not to long ago I received some flame trustfire’s from KD that were crap. I fully charged them then proceeded to discharge them to find out what the true capacity was. Set the charger to 3 amps discharge, when the charger hit 3 amps it suddenly stopped with the 3v cut off point. Well, thought maybe I received a bad cell so I done the same with another KD trustfire. The charger cut off without even hitting 3 amps. These brand new trustfire’s that I had just ordered would not even hold 3v at a 3 amp discharge. Pretty much useless in a single cell XML light. I will not buy any TF again as long as they are sanyo’s and Panasonics at places like fasttech for a few dollars more than the TF’s. You will save money in the long run by buying quality batteries. They will outlast, over the years and out perform cheap cells. Just my 2 cents.

Thank you for sharing your experience Smile
Next time when my budget allows, i will defenitely go for the better brands one. Panasonic 3400 is in my mind.

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I just thought I might add one more thing.
The quality cells will give a higher current tail cap reading than the cheap cells. They have a lower internal resistance which allows more current to flow. In return giving you more light than when using cheap cells.

pounder
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M3TAL_L0RD wrote:

pounder wrote:
before you guys say the sanyo’s are better..take a look at the tests..real tf 3k’s are an impressive battery !http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg100/dave_vega/a8f79bd1-54f6-4773-9b...!

You chose wrong one, those are 2800mAh UR18650ZT.

 

This is real one

the protection circuitry is the only thing that brings the tf 3k down..unprotected vs protected isn’t really a fair fight..the one I compared to was the 2600mah in the pulldown..the one you showed was right above it and was the unprotected version..the one I showed had pv after it which I assume is a protected model of the sanyo 2600..

I run panasonics mostly, but really can’t fault the trustfires that I have..I run them in my Dry and they deliver 5+ amps on a full charge..pretty impressive..

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moderator007 wrote:
I just thought I might add one more thing.
The quality cells will give a higher current tail cap reading than the cheap cells. They have a lower internal resistance which allows more current to flow. In return giving you more light than when using cheap cells.

This is often true in a single cell light, but it is not always the case. Some exceptions are:
1. In a light with a buck or boost driver. These are power converters and if the battery voltage drops (like a bad cell would), the battery current would increase to compensate and keep the power the same. In a properly regulating boost or buck circuit with cells at the same starting voltage, a lower tail cap current indicates a better cell.
2. Lights with linear regulators may give the same drive current initially. In this case (everything else being equal), the cell that begins to give reduced current first is the weaker cell.
3. There are probably others but me brain is no worky good right now… Tired

Direct drive (unregulated emitter current) circuits are the one case where higher current will indicate a stronger cell.

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Just too much inconsistency in between the good ones. I don’t trust the “fire” cells. And they don’t perform as good when looking at the overall picture. Lots of bad cells out there too. The lottery aint worth it.

On a side note. Tesla Roadster use 7000 (SEVEN THOUSAND) 18650 Panasonic cells in a battery package (for Model S ).
They offer 8 year warrany on their battery packages. The price they get are of course vital to which manufacturer they choose.
But Tesla have 3 crucial demands. High capacity, high performance combined with long lasting life. They choose Panasonic cells.

With a production of say 20.000 cars that will be 140.000.000 Panasonic cells every year!
If they deal with such numbers and need the best performance and best battery life and swear by Panasonic to give them the performance they need, then its probably good enough for me too. They have done a lot of testing for many years. For a company like Tesla the life of batteries are crucial, or else they will get warrany issues (or maybe Panasonic will get warranty issues depending on how deals are made.)

I can not say that Panasonic (or Sanyo cells) will last longer compared to Trustfire.. I dont have good facts to back it up. I only have reason to assume so based on the reputation of the cells they have produced in the past and based on things like the warrany Tesla (/Panasonic?) can give on their batteries for the future.

Bang for the buck are not only what you pay and how the batteries perform on paper when they are brand new. Its also vital how many years they can perform good.

My 2 cents..

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Relic38 I guess I should have been more clearer. Smile
Yes in a buck driven light you may not notice any difference besides run time. If its a CC driver it doesn’t really care if its a quality cell as long as its voltage under the load is over the vf of the led + the needed head room for the driver.

  1. The linear regulators is where I noticed the biggest difference. Like a amc7135 driver. The 2800mah driver is suppose to give you 2.8 amps. When I measured with my TF they only drew 2.5a. When measured with the Sanyo’s I got just a hair over 2.8a.
    I read about this many times at cpf. I never really new there was much difference until I started using quality batteries. This is not a one time test I done this has been tested several times by me over the years and by many others.
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moderator007 wrote:
Relic38 I guess I should have been more clearer. Smile
Yes in a buck driven light you may not notice any difference besides run time. If its a CC driver it doesn’t really care if its a quality cell as long as its voltage under the load is over the vf of the led + the needed head room for the driver.
  1. The linear regulators is where I noticed the biggest difference. Like a amc7135 driver. The 2800mah driver is suppose to give you 2.8 amps. When I measured with my TF they only drew 2.5a. When measured with the Sanyo’s I got just a hair over 2.8a.
    I read about this many times at cpf. I never really new there was much difference until I started using quality batteries. This is not a one time test I done this has been tested several times by me over the years and by many others.

No problem, that’s why I felt that I should post to help clear things up a little.
Knowing how these things work is why I went with Sanyo cells; they hold a higher voltage during the discharge curve. The linear regulators do not drop out as early. For buck and boost drivers, they draw less current which can result in a slight improvement in efficiency (less current in the springs, wires, traces, threads, etc. means less loss there).

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