Saik SA-305 rebuild. The Fat Flooder!

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RaceR86
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Saik SA-305 rebuild. The Fat Flooder!

Ill might update this post with more pictures and stuff, but for now, Ill consider it pretty much complete.

I started the rebuild of the Saik SA 305 some time ago.. Its still not finished 100%, but its up and running.

Stuff done:
I improved the 3AA battery holder by soldiering the springs.
Made the body wider. To fit a Feiling 32600 5000mAh battery. Upgraded the switch (not much.. Typical Omten 1,5A@ 250V switch). Not sure if its better than the stock switch, they looked the same, but no rating on the stock one. It still lives, strangely enough…

Lets start with a behind the scenes.. I have access to a lathe. Cant use it much, but my brother can make threads and stuff. My plan was to use the stock pill and combine it with a larger one. One thing led to another..

..and it was made the proper way…

17-18mm ring from FT (its more than 18mm wide btw). Added some solder around it so that it was perfect press fit into a 20mm hole. Later I drilled some holes so that the pill could be easily screwed into to body… (not pictured)

That is a proper over-sized pill.. Smile

Stock was hollow.

There is actually room for 7 14mm emitters..

But 5 is enough.. Wink As you can see, the whole body is almost full with pill!

Custom made TIR holder.. It looked really nice in the beginning, until i used some plastic glue on the TIR optics.. :Sp Ill need to fix that..

Drivers:
First driver… I planed to use the V10 5A driver.. But it sucked (did not have high enough output) ..And to make a story short. I killed it in hope of improving it. I had no issues with that. Now I don’t have to wonder what to do with it.
I still have a 4A version in another light that will be replaced by a Qlite with some extra 7135s.. Qlites Love

Plans for second driver:
East 092… My first one from FT was crap.. The other one, which only took 47 days to arrive.. was also crap, it was supposed to be a good one, but wasn’t.. Did not even have mode memory. I cant be bothered more with them until someone confirms a good source.

Tried the classic Ultrafire DD driver, from the P60. Some if you may remember it… Tail cap reading was around 7,5A.. To the emitters. 5,3A ?? something?? Efficiency sucked and I was afraid it would fry quite quickly.. And btw.. Stock spring on that driver.. Not meant for 7,5A.. Lets just say its lost its “springiness”

4th driver? I have lost count.. 3A Qlite (8*380) + 2,8A nanjg (8*350). I striped down the nanjg board and connected them togheter. Yes, finally I found use for one of those whiny drivers. Added a beefy spring to the Qlite.. Very pleased. No whine. Nice modes, and a nice low voltage protection. Something I appreciate since the battery is not protected.
Tailcap readings (@4V):
High: 5,77
Medium: 1,58
Low:0,09

3x Eneloop XX
High: Started on 4,1 on fresh batteries.. Down to 3,5A after around 1 minute and still sinking (slowly). After slight use, no higher than 3,5A.
Medium: max 0,9
Low:max 0,06

I did not get very consistent readings with the Eneloops. Sometimes lower readings. It seemed to depend a bit on how much (and hard?) they were recently used. I have not used much time on them though. But with the 32600 the readings were stable…

Emitters:
I ordered 5 CW XP-Gs from FT some time back. Despite that I dont like CW. To my positive surprise they were not that cool. Inside on a wall they were quite similar to T6 3C. Way less cool than typical CW XM-L emitters. Maybe it was slightly due to the reflectors?

At one point I tried to combine one WW (7D) XP-G2 with them. Short story, did not like the start up current. So got back to the others. The CW were ok, but not as good CRI as NW T6 3C.
My goal was lots of light, and the CW XP-Gs does that..
XP-G2s were not easily available when I ordered, and the small light output difference around 1A is not really much visible to the eye.

Due to the head design, I de-domed one emitter by accident.. it lived.. The reflectors sits on the domes.. So when the bezel gets screwed on it have a tendency to press the domes sideways.. I might leave it as it is, or improve the whole front (connect the TIR optics holder thingy to the pill).

The beam:
FLOOOODD… Im using these 20-degree TIR optics.. Not sure if they are 20 degree though. I have some experience with 10,15 and 30 degree XM-L TIR optics. And I did not expect that much flood from XP-Gs combined with 20-degree TIRs.
They sure made this light into a flood monster.. They almost make a P60 XM-L look like a thrower. So effective range if this light is not long. But, in short range its quite awesome!
Anyone know of good alternatives btw?

I think this shot was from the OEM D4/Convoy M1 XM-L 7B@ 3A. Or it was the P60 vintage Daimon 1,5A? Im pretty sure it was the Convoy.

Now, the flood monster.. (same exposure)

For the record. Extreme wide angle was used, but you guys get the idea.. Great for close up stuff. No tunnel vision. Inside caves and WWII facilities you take notice of things you otherwise would miss that could be above you or on your side.

I have to say, body heats up really fast and nicely. Its quite impressive. Smile

When it comes to weight..425g total (with battery)! And I used aluminium for the pill. That is heavy for such a small light. Hence the name Fat Flooder, or Flood Monster, or Fat Flood Monster.. Cant decide.. Its fat and floody, thats for sure! Smile

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Edited by: RaceR86 on 05/08/2013 - 13:31
jacktheclipper
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Nice .

garrybunk
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I LOVE it!  Thanks for sharing!

-Garry

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JohnnyMac
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What an awesome job!  Can we see a pic of the completed head with all the emitters peeping out like a mini-Apex?

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awesome, I love your mods r86 8)

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Thanks guys.. That is nice to hear. Smile

JohnnyMac wrote:

What an awesome job!  Can we see a pic of the completed head with all the emitters peeping out like a mini-Apex?

Ill post more build pictures if I come across some of the ones I think are lost..
Anyway.. I just took a new one for you (guys). Smile

It used to look quite good (I know, its hard to believe). But the plastic glue made it look very ugly and uneven, especially around the TIRs. I can fix it fairly easy though. I also think (painted) black plastic would look better. When that is said. I got some nice brushed aluminium that I could use instead if the plastic lens. Would be better to redo it with that. Would look sweet and have better heatsinking. Especially if i made some aluminum rods to the pill and JB-welded it togheter. No issues with de-domed leds.. Silly

Maybe others have recommendations for alternative TIR optics that I can try?
I have this one.. It was so cheap, I had to buy it.. 0:) But would probably need 10mm MCPCBs that needed to be modified. And specs says 40-degree, which is probably best suited for indoor spotlights. Im looking for more throw, not less.

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Ficken awesome creation!

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Very nicely done.

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Very nice build RaceR86. You certainly have made a flood monster. l think if you could get a 10 degree TIR it would still have a heap off flood with a bit more throw. I have just received the heavy springs from IOS which I havent tested yet but I reckon they would handle this current ok.

 

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wow! nice

Would you mind keeping the wrong flashlight?
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It looks like youve put that lathe to good use. Great mod!

RaceR86
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MRsDNF wrote:
Very nice build RaceR86. You certainly have made a flood monster. l think if you could get a 10 degree TIR it would still have a heap off flood with a bit more throw. I have just received the heavy springs from IOS which I havent tested yet but I reckon they would handle this current ok.

Do you know of a (good) source for 10 degree XP-G TIR optics?
Anyone?

Yeah. I used one of the ones I mentioned in the the spring thread.
http://www.cnqualitygoods.com/goods.php?id=1127
Very beefy. I doubt it should have any issues. Looks to be the same as the “A” spring from IOS.

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Carlco should carry something for the XP-G. I use the 10 degree from Fasttech (for XM-L), but they seem to work fine for Nichia and XP-G too.

Who puts five leds into a single light? Surprised You modders are crazy.Tongue Out

If you get the TIRs to fit tight in the holder, you can lay it upside down and run some epoxy around them. It's thick enough that it should not leak if the seams are fairly tight.

 

Great build. Keep 'em coming!

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Old-Lumens wrote:

Carlco should carry something for the XP-G. I use the 10 degree from Fasttech (for XM-L), but they seem to work fine for Nichia and XP-G too.

Who puts five leds into a single light? Surprised You modders are crazy.Tongue Out

If you get the TIRs to fit tight in the holder, you can lay it upside down and run some epoxy around them. It’s thick enough that it should not leak if the seams are fairly tight.

 

Great build. Keep ‘em coming!

Thanks for the suggestion and info Old-Lumens.
Carlco carries lots of stuff, but I don’t know a good place to buy their stuff.
I browsed their webpage, was not able to find anything within about the same size (small enough to fit 5 emitters in my light) that I would consider.

Old-Lumens, you meant the 10 degree XR-E optic?? Or do you see something I dont see.
http://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10001329/1108201-10-degree-angle-opti...

I see they also have 8-degre optics (with holders)
http://www.fasttech.com/products/1606/10001329/1250300-8-degree-angle-op...
But both of the above are much larger then the ones I used.

Yesterday I had the opportunity to use it outdoors at night. After that my conclusion is, I will keep the TIR optics I use! Smile
The flood is just fantastic. Perfect for walking in the nature. Even great for indoors use and caves and stuff. Everything around you lights up nicely. Normally you have to point a flashlight around. Even a P60 type reflector gives you a tunnel vision. But the Fat Flooder just lights up everything in front of you like it was daytime. Its not like any other flashlight I own. Quite a game changer!

I just have to redo the front and do some changes to it, I think it will become quite sweet and unique once its properly finished (It could take some weeks, since I have several other small projects running). Until then Ill enjoy it as it is. Smile

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This lights are very close to the wall, but I think it shows the floody nature compared to a SRK.
Notice the tint difference. SRK is typical XM-L CW (not very nice). The supposedly CW emitters from FT are basically 5000K NW. Im not complaining on that, but just shows that Fasttech is not the most trustworthy source for bin/tint. These emitters were described as 6500-7000K. Silly
Im glad they wasn’t. Smile
When that is said, the TIR optics used could possibly do wonders, but im a bit skeptical that they can improve tint that much..

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Nice tint! Can you provide a link to the exact XP-G2's from FT?  I'd like to pick some up (and I'm pretty sure they're cheap). 

-Garry

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I also want a good supply of nw xp-g2’s, I want to do something with a dry host and some copper. 8)

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Nice Giveaway!

I´m in!

Just joking ^^. I love that beam

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garrybunk wrote:

Nice tint! Can you provide a link to the exact XP-G2’s from FT?  I’d like to pick some up (and I’m pretty sure they’re cheap). 

-Garry

They were CW normal XP-Gs (description said 6350-7000K btw)
I just bought them because they were cheap. At the time I ordered them, (1. March). There were no cheap XP-G2s.
Nor was there any very cheap XP-G NWs. In case i decided to rebuild the light with other emitters/reflectors or anything I did not want to buy 5 emitters that was not “budget”.
The XP-Gs were 2,17$ a piece, and my initial plans was 5A max (1A to each emitter). When looking at charts from Match the difference between XP-G and XP-G2 @ 1A is only 25lumen (325 vs 350) which is not visible to the eye.
So for this particular light, they turned out nice. I might still improve on them though.

The cheapest XP-G2s now are these CWs from FT.
I ordered one along with some other stuff a month ago, but still no sign of that package.
Ordered 3 more a week ago. I have heard from others they are CW though. But I have possible de-dome plans and such..
I also have 3 NW XP-G2s from IOS (5000K) on the way. Already have one 4200K (LCK-LED), and some 3000Ks (LCK-LED/LEDDNA). Nice to have experience with most of the spectrum.. Silly
Ill finish a few basic “part swap lights” once I get more Qlites and copper MCPCBs from IOS.
I have a feeling these , would be my favorite XP-G2s though. But they were not available when I ordered the 3C NWs.
All my XP-G2 lights will be hard driven, either single emitter or triple.. 0:)

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MrCG wrote:
Nice Giveaway!

I´m in!

Just joking ^^. I love that beam

Big Smile

Ill take that as a compliment.. Just consider. The SRK looks like a thrower on that picture, so flood is insane. Its not only the hotspot though, the spill is wider in real life than the picture shows. If used from a 3m distance there is no defined hotspot.
Its quite cool though. But a bit useless if you want to light up something at a 40+ meter distance wit a decent amount of light.. Silly

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RaceR86 wrote:
Old-Lumens wrote:

Carlco should carry something for the XP-G. I use the 10 degree from Fasttech (for XM-L), but they seem to work fine for Nichia and XP-G too.

Who puts five leds into a single light? Surprised You modders are crazy.Tongue Out

If you get the TIRs to fit tight in the holder, you can lay it upside down and run some epoxy around them. It's thick enough that it should not leak if the seams are fairly tight.

 

Great build. Keep 'em coming!

Thanks for the suggestion and info Old-Lumens. Carlco carries lots of stuff, but I don't know a good place to buy their stuff. I browsed their webpage, was not able to find anything within about the same size (small enough to fit 5 emitters in my light) that I would consider. Old-Lumens, you meant the 10 degree XR-E optic?? Or do you see something I dont see. http://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10001329/1108201-10-degree-angle-opti... I see they also have 8-degre optics (with holders) http://www.fasttech.com/products/1606/10001329/1250300-8-degree-angle-op... But both of the above are much larger then the ones I used. Yesterday I had the opportunity to use it outdoors at night. After that my conclusion is, I will keep the TIR optics I use! Smile The flood is just fantastic. Perfect for walking in the nature. Even great for indoors use and caves and stuff. Everything around you lights up nicely. Normally you have to point a flashlight around. Even a P60 type reflector gives you a tunnel vision. But the Fat Flooder just lights up everything in front of you like it was daytime. Its not like any other flashlight I own. Quite a game changer! I just have to redo the front and do some changes to it, I think it will become quite sweet and unique once its properly finished (It could take some weeks, since I have several other small projects running). Until then Ill enjoy it as it is. :)

https://www.fasttech.com/products/1187501  15 degree

https://www.fasttech.com/products/1606/10002020/1144800   30 degree

CNQG had the same thing only 45 degree.

 

Nope, probably won't fit five without shaving them down a little.

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RaceR86
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yes, those are the 15 and 30 degree optics I have tried. I like the 15-degree version. Got 5 spares lying here. They sit nicely around an XM-L (unlike the 10 degree stuff I got from another place).
But even if I were to file away that small ring around them they would still be close to 17,7mm wide..
It should be possible to fit 4 of those though. Something I will have in mind if building a different light..

I know 4 emitters @ same current would be better for slightly more throw, and those tighter and larger optics would help too. But I have come to like the little fat flood monster and its beam. Smile Its unique and got character, quite different from other “floody” lights. Very useful for lots of close up stuff..

BLF LED database – collaboration spreadsheet and latest news about where to buy LEDs
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/19342