MAP or No MAP ? Let your voice be heard

As flashlight enthusiasts (FLASHLIGHT BUYERS in short), I think it’s about time to let our voices be heard about this MAP (Minimum Advertised Price) thing.

I think most, if not all, of these Chinese suppliers are on-line dealers/sellers. They have no physical store to maintain, among other things, if at all. This has changed the dynamics of free enterprise, the essence of business in a capitalistic world. Geographical borders is virtually non-existent today. MAP or no MAP, how can anyone actually enforce this?

MAP is IMO, pro-manufacturer. I am pro-buyer, so I am against any form of interference in the market. Only the strong will survive, I believe. If there is a demand, there is always someone willing to create the supply side.

(The momentum now is that prices are steadily going down. Let us not allow this MAP thing to stop it in its tracks)

Map is pro retailer. No map would mean better prices for us buyers, means more would get sold, means better for the manufacturer. I'm getting sick of these light I want at a decent price just to have the manufacturer step in and f it all up. I had liked crelant, and wanted a few diferent models, but now I think I will just stick to finding a used 7g5 v2 and call it good. I wanted one of those blue pen lights (can't remember the brand or model right now) that fasttech had for a few days. But now the map has stepped in and no way I'm paying that price for a pen light.

These types of posts just serve to promote how clueless some are about how a business model works.

As a generalisation , without MAP’s, a lot businesses wouldn’t survive. This leads to reduced choice of products, suppliers and competition in a lot of cases for us consumers, which is a bad thing.

Clearly if a reseller does not like a suppliers MAP then there is no reason for them to stock the product, and really how stupid are resellers that sell products below MAP then complain or don’t understand why the company pulls them up on it.

It always amuses me to read posts with people saying ‘…I won’t buy anymore of X brand because they have a MAP’, yet these people inevitably own the latest Apple product or another brand that really does screw resellers etc.

I am pro-consumer also and like a bargain, but still prefer to have a choice of brands/suppliers etc so accept companies need to have a sustainable model in order to keep producing product, improving features etc etc.

MAP is a legal version of price fixing, if price fixing or collusion were legal, then MAP would never have existed.

Without any MAP, I’d be lost with all these lights to choose from. :frowning: How would I know what the good lights were? :~

Well, personally, I would not one an apple product.

Please explain how a manufacturer would go out of business without map?

+100 on that. I’d like it explained too.

I don’t think one can be pro-consumer while advocating price manipulation from manufacturer/retailer. If MAP is a requirement for most business to survive so that we will something to buy, what is the choice of the consumer then? Wait for what price that is comfortable for the retailer/manufacturer?

Obviously a very rough example with lots of ignored variables-

Five retailers sell product ‘A’ and all have reasonable turnover
One of them starts selling ‘A’ below the prices of the others, causing buyers to only buy from them.
The other four retailers cannot sell through their stock and so stop buying from product ’A’s manufacturer.
The only remaining retailer having forced the others out, can now charge whatever price they like as there is no more competition.
The Manufacturer now has less distribution channels, less product exposure, less turnover, less profits, reduced product development etc etc etc
Buyers now have less choice and few options if the only reseller has crap service/support.

Oh sorry if my original post sounded harsh, I re-read it and it does sound so.

I don’t condone price fixing by any means, however manufacturers do need a sustainable business model, and one that supports and encourages all it’s resellers to ensure growth of a brand.

so in this case why is price fixing and collusion not legal, they would have the same effects?
I personally think the arguments pro MAP are to avoid its real intent, to maximize profit by stifling competition, as it represents the closest legal method of price fixing.

That scenario is very possible….however,
isn’t it also possible that the 4 other retailers lower their prices to “price-match”, which is what should ideally happen?
If the first one can survive, the others could too.

My 2 cents…

If I want a light - I want the lowest price - obviously.

MAP exists - Manufacturers and sellers can deal with this… I don’t care.

What I do care about is manufacturers/vendors/dealers cluttering up our forum with MAP related drama. We are free to discuss prices here - if these prices violate MAP its not our problem and anyone who doesn’t like this can go to hell.

If a price discussed here violates MAP its a problem for someone…

I realize that the worst that can happen is a vendor will pull a light if they get complaints on a MAP violation… I guess its up to the vendors/sellers discretion how they chose to advertise a price and us if we decide to discuss it.

MAP isn't the best way for business and competition in the market.
In Germany most stores have the same (or similar price - maybe a small difference of 1-2€) for brand flashlights like Fenix, Olight, SWM, Nitecore etc. and if you want the flashlight in 2-3 days, 24 months warranty (every shop in Germany has to give a warranty of 24months by law) you accept the high price (I think it#s the MAP in Germany).

Of course this is good for each shop, because now the shops with good service can make the purchase. But for us as a customer who want the best price and have the knowledge to repair small defects it isn't the best. If I have to pay 20-30% less [the german prices are high for example the Fenix TK35 XM-L U2 cost 100€ + shipping (round about $130 + shipping) or the Olight M3X Triton XM-L2 109€ + shipping (round about $145 + shipping] you can do a lot for example built in a other driver. To have no warranty (to send it back to HongKong, which need 2 weeks and wait 4-8 weeks to get a repaired back) is acceptable if I can save 20-30%.

The idea that a free market will squeeze out all but one dealer who will then own the market and raise prices sky high is Mostly nonsense.

The dealer with the monopoly based on low price still has to compete with other brands with similar Products and with dealers who offer better service etc.

I have no problem with the MFG setting the price. If it's not fair? then I just don't buy it. Especially something as frivolous as a flashlight.

If a retailer agrees to MAP fully knowing they will break the agreement, then that retailer is a liar and cheat, since they knew ahead of time they would not honor the agreement. No honor among thieves is about right.

But you are not taking into account that the retailer can sell the item A for the price he wants. The retailer just can’t advertise the price. They can give you a 50% off coupon or some other discount, they just can’t advertise the final price. So there are cheaper retailers out there they just have to follow the manufactures rules to keep the other retailers happy.
That’s where we come in. We can discuss the final price. But as others already mentioned that was some how against the rules to. You can post a great deal on a item all over the internet for millions to see, explaining how you get the good deal. You just cant post the final price. Makes no sense to me, how many people do you think are not going to add that item to the cart and apply the code just to see what the price is. I do it ever time, It gets me curious just to find out what the final price actually is. So it may actually work against the MAP policy sometimes.

I used to use a MAP, but I find the GPS much better.

What?…….Oh, never mind!

one could argue they are acting like robin hood, thats not my opinion, i’m just throwing it out there

I think its because some dealers buy in bulk and can sell for less than other dealers can buy their stock for. That means only the sellers with the most money will be making more money because the others can’t compete and might as well close down, then the when the big sellers are the only ones left they can charge high prices because they have no competition.

For most of my flashlight purchases I have contacted the seller and negotiated a price that we are both happy with which is usually way under MSRP

Of course I don’t like high fixed prices but its nothing a a email or coupon code can’t fix.

If you view the advertised price as the the starting point for negotiation then 90% of the time you will get a better deal.

MAP is not price fixing. The acronym stands for Minimum Advertised Price.
You can sell it for whatever you want to, just don’t advertise below a certain number. The problem is, it leads down a path of temptation towards antitrust (true price fixing).
Any supplier-retailer MAP (or non-MAP) agreement should be in writing and up front, and carefully written. Retail Price Maintenance is illegal in some countries.

On this and any other forum, we can post reseller advertised prices until the cows come home. The MAP-bound price is on the seller’s site, not BLF.

We can post after-coupon prices as well, although this may lead to the seller getting heat from the supplier. Even though they did not post the price, it is now advertised somewhere.
My suggestion is to post the advertised price and mention the coupon and discount percentage.

Some examples given above are not that realistic and are more-or-less taking place in a vacuum (assumes only one manufacturer). A single manufacturer may try to fix it’s prices, but another can take the opportunity to walk in and undercut them with their own product. Note that selling below cost with the intent to drive a competitor out of the market is illegal as well.

MAP-Minimum Advertised Price
GPS-Get Price the Same
What.