MT-G2 - Lets measure throw

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ImA4Wheelr
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MT-G2 - Lets measure throw


This thread is to gather throw readings on the MT-G2 in various reflectors at various currents to better understand how to get this emitter to throw. I will periodically summarize all contributions in this OP.

KD 86mm x 90mm SMO w/o Lens – (Post 1) – 87kcd at 5ish amps

Ultrafire T90 – (Post 4) – 51kcd at 5ish amps

Ultrafire-T90 – Dedomed – 198kcd at about 11.3 amps

Small Sun ZY-T08 – (Post 7) – 35kcd at 5 amps

Small Sun ZY-T08 – (Post 10) – 78kcd at ? amps

Trustfire X8 Clone – (Post 8 ) – 21kcd at 7 amps

KD 86mm x 90mm SMO w/o Lens – Dedomed (Post 9) – 119kcd at 6.3 amps

Illumination Machines LUM 5-90 – Dedomed (Post 10) – 54kcd at 6.3 amps

Defiant Super Thrower – (Post 11) – 52kcd at 4.5 amps

Defiant Super Thrower – Dedomed (Posts 12, 17, & 26) – 38kcd at 2 amps, 60kcd at 3.5 amps, and 71kcd at 4.8 amps

Defiant Super Thrower – Dedomed (Post 36) – 94kcd at about 6 amps

Defiant XML Spotlight – Dedomed – (Post 22) – 250kcd at 5.6 to 6 amps

Defiant 3C MT-G2, 4 × 26650 custom build – 47kcd at 5.5 – 6amps

Digital Projector Spotlight – Dedomed – 213kcd at about 6 amps

Dereelight Xsearcher – ~70-75kcd at 4.4A

Dereelight Xsearcher – Dedomed – ~110kcd at about 5.25A

100 mm Aspheric LensDedomed in DST – 399kcd at about 6 amps

TN35vn – 150kcd at about 7 – 7.5 amps

Crelant 7G10 – Dedomed – 163kcd at about 9 amps

FmC’s Scratch Build w/ 110mm FT Reflector160kcd DD w/Samsung 25r’s 2S2P

Edited by: ImA4Wheelr on 01/06/2015 - 07:45
ImA4Wheelr
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Using the deep KD reflector (link below} measured 87K lux (peak) at 1 meter. Direct drive with 2 unprotected NCR18650’s (date code 9926). Current before measuring lux was 5 amps. Emitter Domed.

http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S021796

EDIT: I didn’t play with focus. Reflector resting on MCPCB. I will be testing at least 3 other reflectors. Illumination Machines ST90, Defiant XML Spotlight reflector, and the WideShine Spotlight reflector. I expect the IM reflector to be quite a bit lower and the Defiant reflector to be higher based on seeing them in action. I haven’t received the WideShine yet, but expect it to be higher than the Defiant.

EDIT2: Reflector reviewed here.

18sixfifty
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I’m surprised to see it that high. I would estimate my ultrafire-T90 mod to be much less than that. It was pushing 7amps through a 70mm reflector.

I’m a junky, I mod lights so I can sell lights so I can buy more light to mod so I can sell lights to buy more lights to mod.

bdiddle
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What host?

Newb

relic38
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UltraFire T90 (TrustFire X6 copy), 73mm dia. x53.8mm length
Driven at 5A ish
Intensity: 51kcd in one large smooth hotspot.

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ImA4Wheelr
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Host? It has 1/4” thick walls and aluminum pill (pressed in) topped with copper sheet (forget thickness). Copper emitter base reflowed to copper sheet. 3” PVC pipe is snug and holds what ever position I put it in.

I’m new to measuring lux. For reference, my TN31 measured 13460 (peak again) at 10ft when it was stock.

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Subscribed. Thanks for all of your determination in trying to make good use of the mtg2.

relic38
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Small Sun ZY-T08 , 57.7mm dia. x 38.5mm depth
Drive current (estimated): ~5A
Intensity: 35kcd
Note: Intensity measured after installing DRY driver instead of the one in the mod post.

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Ultrafire clone of TrustFire X8
Drive current: ~7A (driver = piece of wire, definition of Direct Drive Wink )
Intensity: 21kcd

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ImA4Wheelr
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This reading is likely not representative of a dedomed MT-G2. This emitter has been to hell and back several times. It has been reflowed no less then 7 times. Some of them at excessive temperatures on huge copper pills that hold the elevated temps for too long. It has also had wires soldered to it too many times to count. This emitter is one tough hombre.

Worse though, it accidentally touched a black plastic reflector (Defiant xml Spotlight reflector) while it was on once. It instantly melted the plastic and some stuck to it. It was fused to the emitter and I finally had to just let it burn off. There is permanent black residue on the phosphor. Most of the emitter’s hot spot is darkened by this residue. It is clearly visible on white walls and in measurement.

Similar up as in post 1, except Panasonic CGR18650CH’s and emitter at 10 feet because the hot spot is too small. No lens over reflector.

Peak reading 12,790 lux (118.8kcd)

ImA4Wheelr
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Illumination Machines LUM 5-90

http://www.illuminationmachines.com/products.php?id=9&catId=1

This reflector with the MTG2 makes the most useful, beautiful beam I have ever seen. Wider diameter that a SKR, brighter spill than a SRK, but also has very nice throw. Really lights up an area with beautifully tinted, decent cri light. I have used it with domed and dedomed MGT2. To me, the beam is best with a domed emitter.

Used same damaged Dedomed emitter discussed in Post 9 and 2 Panasonic CGR18650CH’s direct drive. Amperage was measuring 6 to 6.5 amps. Lets call it 6.3 amps. 10 feet with no lens:

Peak reading 5,810 lux (54kcd)

ImA4Wheelr
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Defiant Super Thrower – 52.3kcd at 4.5 amps

2 NCR18650 laptop pulls in direct drive. Read 4.5amps before lux measurement. AR lens. All my set ups posted in this thread so far have been on Noctigon copper bases. Peak lux reading was 5,630 at 10 feet.

ohaya
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ImA4Wheelr wrote:
Defiant Super Thrower – 52.3kcd at 4.5 amps

2 NCR18650 laptop pulls in direct drive. Read 4.5amps before lux measurement. AR lens. All my set ups so far have been on Noctigon copper bases.

That’s pretty good! I’m getting 38010 lux with my shorty DST, DD, with 2xSiebele 18350 IMR, but I have a 0.5 ohm resistor. Tailcap is ~2 amps. Maybe I should remove the resistor :).

Edit: MT-G2 is also on Noctigon.

ImA4Wheelr
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At what distance Ohaya? I would like to post you’re measurement in the OP. Each one will contribute to understanding this hard to throw emitter.

relic38
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ohaya, I’m doing direct drive with a piece of wire from 2xPANA18650PD high drains, resistance mods for all springs. I get ~7A, which the MT-G2 sees comfortable with on copper.
I’m quite confident you can get rid of the resistors safely. J)

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ohaya
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ImA4Wheelr wrote:
At what distance Ohaya? I would like to post you’re measurement in the OP. Each one will contribute to understanding this hard to throw emitter.

I measure the lux at 39 feet, then calculate back to 1 meter, so the number that I posted was at 1 meter (calculated).

Jim

P.S. Thanks for doing this!

ohaya
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relic38 wrote:
ohaya, I’m doing direct drive with a piece of wire from 2xPANA18650PD high drains, resistance mods for all springs. I get ~7A, which the MT-G2 sees comfortable with on copper. I’m quite confident you can get rid of the resistors safely. J)

Yes, I understand. I was being safe when I added the MT-G2, but I just haven’t had time to remove the resistor yet.

Thanks,
Jim

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ohaya wrote:
ImA4Wheelr wrote:
At what distance Ohaya? I would like to post you’re measurement in the OP. Each one will contribute to understanding this hard to throw emitter.

I measure the lux at 39 feet, then calculate back to 1 meter, so the number that I posted was at 1 meter (calculated).

Jim

P.S. Thanks for doing this!

sorry, forgot to mention – dedomed and original lens.

ImA4Wheelr
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Thanks Ohaya. Please update us if you change anything. I think your dedomed emitter is probably the best one out there right now.

TrakTuned
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Bummer. I was hoping for a lot more from the lum 5-90…. havent even played with mine..

BLF members are hilarious:
“That’s like saying “My car has top-speed of 200k millimiles per hour”. Why not to just say 10 Ah?”

ImA4Wheelr
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Don’t get bummed. Keep in mind that I was using a wounded emitter. I think the numbers will be better when I try it with a health domed emitter. It’s definitely not a dedicated thrower, but that IM reflector and a domed MTG2 is a thing of beauty. Better flood and far better throw than a SRK. I don’t recall if you are looking for a good thrower for biking. I can’t think of a better setup for biking. I’m working on building a flashlight host for it now. It’s going to be redneck at first, but I can tell you that it will be my go to light for most outdoor situations. It just lights up a big area in front of you with smooth, wonderful light. You don’t realize it immediately, but then you start noticing that you see all kinds of stuff you don’t see with other lights.

EDIT: I will still need my SRK’s though. More compact and longer run times. Gotta love them. Like everyone else, I’m anxiously awaiting texaspyro’s driver.

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I dedomed another MTG2 last night with heat while reflowing my Defiant spotlight. Well, I should say partial dedome. I removed all the silicone except for a small layer that is right over the diode array. I was afraid I would remove some of the phosphor with it. Partially dedoming with heat seems pretty safe. I didn’t have any phosphor lift off with the silicon. The remnants of silicon over the diode array will cause some artifacts, but at least the light will be emitted from a much smaller surface area.

Next time I will use the heat of the led and be more bold. Maybe the heat will create an air bubble in that area before I even start. Working in baby steps here.

Hopefully, I get the spotlight to a point that I can measure lux tonight. I am concerned a little about the emitter. It had a colder tint than expected in the previous light I was using it in. Before removing it from it’s base, I notice it had at least a partial gap to the base’s thermal pad. When I unsoldered it, there was not much solder on the pad. Hopefully, the emitter was not hurt by that. Here it is. You can see there are is some silicone over the diode array. There is also a fairly wide phosphor layer surrounding the diode array. I really want to get the last remaining silicone off. I hope to attempt that soon.

ImA4Wheelr
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Defiant XML Spotlight w/Dedomed MTG2 – 250kcd at 5.6amps

Used newly dedomed emitter discussed in Post 21 and 2 Panasonic CGR18650CH’s direct drive. Amperage was measuring 5.6 amps before taking lux reading. 10 feet with glass lens:

Peak reading 26,900 lux (250kcd).

The beam below is on a beige wall. Also, my camera settings always create a very yellow tone. You don’t see the yellow ring in real life. Actually, in real life it is difficult to look at the hot spot at all.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that the emitter is off center for now. The pedestal pill I built has a lot of mass and takes time to cool down. I apparently did not set it level when I put it aside to cool which would have allowed the emitter to slide. Also, I did not that reflector has been handled a lot and has some scratches and other damage. Here is build thread. There have been some changes since and the build is still in progress.

I took the light out for bit last night. The emitter needs to be focused because the hot spot diverges too much. I had adjusted the pill to raise the height of the emitter, but it appears to be too far into the reflector now. Maybe it is the out of center condition. I’ll get it worked out eventually and report back.

Not sure how much the above would effect throw.

relic38
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Nice! I’ve been looking at the Defiant Spotlight for a while, and was tossing around a dedomed XM-L or an MT-G2. Dedoming the MT-G2 scares me, that looks very yellow in the pic, is it like that for real?

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TrakTuned
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ImA4Wheelr wrote:
Defiant XML Spotlight w/Dedomed MG-T2 – 250kcd at 5.6amps

Used newly dedomed emitter discussed in Post 21 and 2 Panasonic CGR18650CH’s direct drive. Amperage was measuring 5.6 amps before taking lux reading. 10 feet with glass lens:

Peak reading 26,900 lux (250kcd)

EDIT: I forgot to mention that the emitter is off center for now. The pedestal pill I built has a lot of mass and takes time to cool down. I apparently did not set it level when I put it aside to cool which would have allowed the emitter to slide. Also, I did not that reflector has been handled a lot and has some scratches and other damage. Here is build thread. There have been some changes since and the build is still in progress.

I took the light out for bit last night. The emitter needs to be focused because the hot spot diverges too much. I had adjusted the pill to raise the height of the emitter, but it appears to be too far into the reflector now. Maybe it is the out of center condition. I’ll get it worked out eventually and report back.

Not sure how much the above would effect throw.

OH MY…..I do believe this is a record for the MTG-2!?
I may be on spotlight richer very soon…..

And no, I regret to inform you that it was not I who was looking for a bike light. That would be the perfect situation, I on the other hand wanted some throw from this.

BLF members are hilarious:
“That’s like saying “My car has top-speed of 200k millimiles per hour”. Why not to just say 10 Ah?”

ImA4Wheelr
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Quote:
relic38 wrote: Nice! I’ve been looking at the Defiant Spotlight for a while, and was tossing around a dedomed XM-L or an MT-G2. Dedoming the MT-G2 scares me, that looks very yellow in the pic, is it like that for real?

For some reason, it is much more yellow in the picture. The tint does warm up. Color rendition seems to be better with dedome. I like the dedoomed tint better.

The Defiant Spotlight is nice, but it has an all plastic body. I think the Wideshine’s (search Aliexpress) would be a better host because they have an aluminum body. It could be used to help shed the heat. They also have a bigger reflector and look even more focused. Also, the Wideshine (AKA Digital Projector) reflector is aluminum. I think they can be had for about $40. I should be receiving mine in a day or two. Here is a thread on it:

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/17520

I think the emitter might not be in focus. Here is a picture of the whole beam:

ohaya
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Updates on my short DST (dedomed MT-G2, direct drive).

First, I removed the 0.5 ohm resistor I had, and got:

Tailcap current: 3.46 amps
Lux at 1 meter: 60477 (60.47 Klux, measured at 39 feet and calculated to 1 meter)
Batteries: 2xSibeile IMR 18350, fully-charged

I thought that I’d read that the Sibeile IMRs were NOT behaving as IMRs somewhere, so I then switched to 2xEfest IMR 18350, fully charged, and got:

Tailcap current: 4.81 amps
Lux at 1 meter: 71216 (71.2 Klux, measured at 39 feet and calculated to 1 meter)
Batteries: 2xEfest IMR 18350, fully-charged

The light is stock, other than re-wiring the pill for direct-drive, using the original driver as a contact board and the original driver-to-emitter wires. I have not done any braids on the spring yet.

Per request on another thread, here’s a pic of the dedomed MT-G2 inside the DST reflector:

Some pics of the emitter+Noctigon outside the light are here:

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/22987#comment-425102

Jim

ohaya
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relic38 wrote:
Nice! I’ve been looking at the Defiant Spotlight for a while, and was tossing around a dedomed XM-L or an MT-G2. Dedoming the MT-G2 scares me, that looks very yellow in the pic, is it like that for real?

relic,

At least for myself, and for one other person, when the MT-G2 was dedomed, the tint went cooler instead of warmer. Here’s a whitewall I just took with my DST with dedomed MT-G2 (about 1.5 meters, I guess):

I have notes about dedoming the MT-G2 in gasoline on the “Accidental dedome” thread:

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/22987

All I did was use the point on a tweezer, and carefully poke a couple of holes in the dome, then soak the emitter+PCB in gasoline. That worked for me, but maybe I just got lucky (only did it once).

Jim

EDIT: I just noticed the title for this thread was misspelled, which is probably why I a hard time finding it.

MG-T2 should be* MT-G2*

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Thanks Ohaya. I’m in awe of the close up pictured of your dedome. Those pictureds and the dedome are amazing. They also show a lot of the anatomy of the emitter. My dedomes are not clean like yours. Mine are really partial dedomes. I think you have the only successful, fully dedomed MTG2.

That must have been a challenge assembling the head without a dome to help center the emitter. That DST reflector likes to wobble around when while the bezel is screwed down. So it looks like your reflector is basically resting on the emitters pcb. Same as my domed DST. So we both have about the same height placement. I get the feeling we are not focused yet. I think the emitter needs to be a little lower, but that will be a challenge to accomplish. I don’t think I will get around to playing with that any time soon.

I’ll update the OP first and then I better crash.

EDIT: Thanks for catching the header typo. Fixing.

EDIT2: Ohaya, did you see that CNG now carries an AR lens that fits the DST? That might give you a nice little bump in lux. Post 38:

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/23231?page=1#comment-440120

ohaya
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ImA4Wheelr wrote:
Thanks Ohaya. I’m in awe of the close up pictured of your dedome. Those pictureds and the dedome are amazing. They also show a lot of the anatomy of the emitter. My dedomes are not clean like yours. Mine are really partial dedomes. I think you have the only successful, fully dedomed MG-T2.

That must have been a challenge assembling the head without a dome to help center the emitter. That DST reflector likes to wobble around when while the bezel is screwed down. So it looks like your reflector is basically resting on the emitters pcb. Same as my domed DST. So we both have about the same height placement. I get the feeling we are not focused yet. I think the emitter needs to be a little lower, but that will be a challenge to accomplish. I don’t think I will get around to playing with that any time soon.

I’ll update the OP first and then I better crash.

EDIT: Thanks for catching the header typo. Fixing.

Actually, I didn’t have any problem centering with the dedomed MT-G2, but I did have problems when it was domed… as you said it would “wobble”, and everytime I screwed the head on, I was afraid it was going to chop the dome off.

But, since dedoming… no more wobble. I just screw the head onto the pill, and I got what was in the pic I posted.

EDIT: I noticed that the updated results after changing to the Efest batteries isn’t in the OP?

Quote:
Tailcap current: 4.81 amps Lux at 1 meter: 71216 (71.2 Klux, measured at 39 feet and calculated to 1 meter) Batteries: 2xEfest IMR 18350, fully-charged
ohaya
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ImA4Wheelr wrote:
Defiant Super Thrower – 52.3kcd at 4.5 amps

2 NCR18650 laptop pulls in direct drive. Read 4.5amps before lux measurement. AR lens. All my set ups posted in this thread so far have been on Noctigon copper bases. Peak lux reading was 5,630 at 10 feet.

Hi,

It looks like we’re getting almost exactly the same tailcap current now!! What body/tube are you using with your DST? I had asked awhile ago on the DST thread about a body for 2×18650, but didn’t get any responses, so I’d be interested!

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