Wavien RLT™ LED Kit

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Pulsar
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Wavien RLT™ LED Kit
nitro
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i bought one but its not worth that much

Cowboysnavy
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Find a really small Christmas ornament cut the end off so you have a parabolic mirror cut a small hole in the top and glue it in place “your done”
I tried it and it works $.50 not $60
Just my take on doing this on the cheap

Pulsar
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Yeah, I know its not worth a Benjamin... But, hopefully we see some Chinese knockoffs soon Tongue Out

comfychair
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Maglite C/D incan reflectors. You have to play around a bit and find the height where they focus back onto the die. The opening at the base is already the right size so you don't have to worry about messing up the plating. Where you cut them to set the height it doesn't matter if the plating gets a little boogered up, as that will be down against the heatsink and any light that far down can't be re-reflected anywhere useful anyway.

http://www.zbattery.com/Maglite-D-Cell-Reflector-108-036

 

(still needs to be cut for final height, probably somewhere around the Sharpie mark)

http://75.65.123.78/Dsc06382.jpg

Pulsar
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does it change the focal length of the LED?

comfychair
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I don't see how it could, as the die is still in the same location, only brighter.

With a LED on a pedestal or something small enough that you can drop the reflector down around it, power the LED at a low enough level so you can look at it, then move the upside-down reflector over it. You can see the light reflected back down and get an idea of the height where it will focus best back onto the die.

Plastic Mag reflectors are cheap enough you can use the first one as a test mule, cut it in small increments until the focus gets better, better, better, then worse... note that dimension just before it started to get worse, then cut the reflector you're actually going to use to that height.

I cut them with a small Dremel cutoff wheel in the drill press and slide the reflector around face-down to make the cut, it's the least destructive way I've found and it gives a perfectly flat and square cut line that only needs the burrs scraped off afterwards. Like this...

http://75.65.123.78/3xp/tr801/Dsc06126.jpg

That's not a plastic reflector, but you get the idea. Use a low enough speed that the plastic doesn't melt. Smile

LinusHofmann
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Interesting stuff, I always figured the real waiven collar uses some king of a retroreflective coating to maximize effeciency. Is that the case or is it all in the ideal collar profile, ie a spherical reflector.
Using an inverted incan reflector is a neat idea though I’ll have to give that a go, I’m sure it makes quite a bit of an improvement once the focus is dialed in. Thanks for the tip Smile

And what about a tiny chrome plated hemi-sphere with a hole in the top sitting right on the emitter? A waiven dome for a dedome emitter if you will Silly

Cowboysnavy
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I’ve used old tiny Christmas bulbs a few time on dedomed xmls and as far as I’m concerned you get a nice little increase if you did a good job dedoming and didn’t take off any phosphor
I cut them off at the top where trees already a hole and just clean it up
I’ve also tried using reflectors my experience with those are that there very thick so you can’t make as clean of a cut due to melting the plastic
But the use of a drill press does sound like a winning ticket
I wish I had one

vestureofblood
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comfychair wrote:

Maglite C/D incan reflectors. You have to play around a bit and find the height where they focus back onto the die. The opening at the base is already the right size so you don't have to worry about messing up the plating. Where you cut them to set the height it doesn't matter if the plating gets a little boogered up, as that will be down against the heatsink and any light that far down can't be re-reflected anywhere useful anyway.

http://www.zbattery.com/Maglite-D-Cell-Reflector-108-036

 

(still needs to be cut for final height, probably somewhere around the Sharpie mark)

http://75.65.123.78/Dsc06382.jpg

 

 

Hey Comfy,

 

May I ask what percentage increase in lux you typically see by doing this? 

In Him (Jesus Christ) was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
http://asflashlights.com/ Everyday Carry Flashlights, plus Upgrades for Maglite.

comfychair
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No idea, never measured it.

In this first pic the Mag reflector is centered, the reflected light is going back down onto the die...

http://75.65.123.78/1226/Dsc06591.jpg

Moved off center, you can see both the reflected spot (off the lower right corner) and also that the die is no longer washed out, you can see detail there that wasn't visible with the reflector centered. Both pics were with camera in manual mode, same settings for both, so the differences between the pics are real and not caused by the camera auto-adjusting.

http://75.65.123.78/1226/Dsc06589.jpg

M4D M4X
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which lens is used when using a collar?

find all available items in this list

i launched my new blog - all deals for members without MAP B$ Wink

find a short description about my idea here

 

if you want to buy a flashlight or battery for a better price: just send a mail - i will try to save you money!

comfychair
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This doesn't affect the lens or focal length, it just recycles some of the wasted spill and uses it to make the die brighter. Aspherics are really projectors, so if the die is brighter the projected image will be brighter as well.

nikosb
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Could not one use a 3D printer to print a hemispherical collar with an opening, and spray that with a high reflective coating?

totilde
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Are you related in any way to marinebeam? that first post sounds a bit like commercial seller advertising…

Mooooooo

riskama
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Hey Comfychair, thanks for the Wavien hack. It’s a bit of an old forum post, I was wondering if you’re still on it.
I’m trying it out right now, ordered the same Maglite reflectors and using a cree xml2 LED. I see a slight difference in brightness. However, I have the Wavien assembled prototype version next to it and that seems still brighter.
The Wavien is more of a yellow LED and mine is blue-ish, so bit hard to tell, optically.
And there seem more slight differences, the Wavien version is more parabolic for example, I can imagine this gives a better result?

I was wondering if you ever tested the results with exactly the same LED’s with a Wavien collar compared with your setup?
I wish I could do, but the wavien collar is glued to its base, cannot easily take it off.
Also wondering if you got any further results in general?

tnx

Jerommel
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Cowboysnavy wrote:
Find a really small Christmas ornament cut the end off so you have a parabolic mirror cut a small hole in the top and glue it in place “your done”
I tried it and it works $.50 not $60
Just my take on doing this on the cheap
Awesome!
Pics or it didn’t happen. Silly
(edit: in 2014 or before apparently…)

Btw, it’s a spherical mirror, not parabolic (at least, it should be).

Looking for:

5” parabolic reflector (for recoil light)

Jerommel
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riskama wrote:
Hey Comfychair, thanks for the Wavien hack. It’s a bit of an old forum post, I was wondering if you’re still on it.
I’m trying it out right now, ordered the same Maglite reflectors and using a cree xml2 LED. I see a slight difference in brightness. However, I have the Wavien assembled prototype version next to it and that seems still brighter.
The Wavien is more of a yellow LED and mine is blue-ish, so bit hard to tell, optically.
And there seem more slight differences, the Wavien version is more parabolic for example, I can imagine this gives a better result?
The maglite reflector is parabolic, a wavien collar is spherical.

Looking for:

5” parabolic reflector (for recoil light)

Jerommel
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…and welcome to the forum, riskama, landgenoot.

Looking for:

5” parabolic reflector (for recoil light)

ClusterFlux
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Riskama,

If your beam is still blueish it means that the recycling is not occurring, or is not happening very effectively. When the light is recycled back onto the phosphor correctly, the remaining blue wavelengths are re-emitted in warmer wavelengths. thus the warmer light you see on the original Wavien prototype, even though its emitter is ~6500K (quite blue before the recycling process).

The Wavien reflector is not parabolic, but rather perfectly spherical, and so the wasted light is retro-reflected directly back to the emitter.

The asphere lens and its NA also affects the ultimate Candela output and throw, and the Wavien and Marinebeam RLT lights use a custom and expensive lens.

Jeff

riskama
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This is great info. Thanks Jeff! Interesting.
I’m using the prototype without lens btw.
And it’s true that with this maclite reflector positioned right it becomes just slightly more yellow, but just not enough.
Wavien stopped selling, or they’re transferring their company to another business and -model atm, so – beside theirs are very expensive – I now feel the need to DIY one [while I need multiple in the end]. Looking for ways though, christmas is far away still ;), but will try to find some shiny balls…

rdoc613
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riskama wrote:
This is great info. Thanks ClusterFux! Interesting. I’m using the prototype without lens btw. And it’s true that with this maclite reflector positioned right it becomes just slightly more yellow, but just not enough. Wavien stopped selling, or they’re transferring their company to another business and -model atm, so – beside theirs are very expensive – I now feel the need to DIY one [while I need multiple in the end]. Looking for ways though, christmas is far away still ;), but will try to find some shiny balls…

Lol he called you ClusterFux. I’m sorry, I’m having a teenage giggling moment this afternoon.

ClusterFlux
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Yes, the Wavien components are expensive, but they are quite low volume, very specialized (borosilicate with specialized coatings dialed in for the specific wavelengths) and with very tight tolerances. Very difficult to manufacture the RLT correctly and consistently, and currently impossible from worldwide vendors to get an outer datum to reference accurately enough to the inner reflective sphere to make a drop together flashlight. It is then quite time-consuming to actively align to <0.1mm in 3-axes and permanently fix in place in a flashlight that must then pass the FL1 drop tests, etc.

A fun project for sure, but it might be hard to pull off economically.

Jeff

Jerommel
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I assume the wavien collar is a ‘cold reflector’, reflecting only visible light, not IR (heat basically).

Looking for:

5” parabolic reflector (for recoil light)

Enderman
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ClusterFlux wrote:
Yes, the Wavien components are expensive, but they are quite low volume, very specialized (borosilicate with specialized coatings dialed in for the specific wavelengths) and with very tight tolerances. Very difficult to manufacture the RLT correctly and consistently, and currently impossible from worldwide vendors to get an outer datum to reference accurately enough to the inner reflective sphere to make a drop together flashlight. It is then quite time-consuming to actively align to <0.1mm in 3-axes and permanently fix in place in a flashlight that must then pass the FL1 drop tests, etc.

A fun project for sure, but it might be hard to pull off economically.


Wavien has gone dark and is no longer manufacturing anything or replying to contact requests.
Other than finding collars on the used market, the only option would be to buy a custom electroformed reflector, which would be really expensive because no company has a spherical mandrel already made of that size.

Hey, how are you? :)

ClusterFlux
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Not exactly the case. Marinebeam is still an active licensee, and is still manufacturing the RLT collars for its own commercially available products. Because of licensing restrictions, however, Marinebeam will not sell the components individually at this time.

Jeff

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ClusterFlux wrote:
Not exactly the case. Marinebeam is still an active licensee, and is still manufacturing the RLT collars for its own commercially available products. Because of licensing restrictions, however, Marinebeam will not sell the components individually at this time.

How do you know that?
It seems to me that they just bought a bunch of stuff when wavien still existed and are just reselling what they have.
Even the other wavien collar flashlight that wavien produced is no longer sold by marinebeam, probably because they ran out of stock and don’t get any new ones.

Hey, how are you? :)

ClusterFlux
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You can easily read the whole explanation on the Marinebeam website. Marinebeam was originally purchasing housings from Brinkmann, which was the same supplier Wavien had previously used for their proof of concept flashlights. But, Brinkmann went bankrupt more than two years ago, and Wavien’s backer Metro Media pulled the plug on Wavien shortly thereafter. All of the IP was sold to another entity, Meadowstar. Meadowstar was also a licensee that builds a non-lethal light weapon for the military using the Wavien RLT technology. In the meantime, Marinebeam is an active licensee, and has been designing, building, and selling two different versions of their own design using their own suppliers for the optical components. Marinebeam did not buy any surplus components from Wavien, or from Meadowstar. It did, however, buy surplus branded housings from Brinkmann (originally destined for Home Depot).

Jeff

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ClusterFlux wrote:
You can easily read the whole explanation on the Marinebeam website. Marinebeam was originally purchasing housings from Brinkmann, which was the same supplier Wavien had previously used for their proof of concept flashlights. But, Brinkmann went bankrupt more than two years ago, and Wavien’s backer Metro Media pulled the plug on Wavien shortly thereafter. All of the IP was sold to another entity, Meadowstar. Meadowstar was also a licensee that builds a non-lethal light weapon for the military using the Wavien RLT technology. In the meantime, Marinebeam is an active licensee, and has been designing, building, and selling two different versions of their own design using their own suppliers for the optical components. Marinebeam did not buy any surplus components from Wavien, or from Meadowstar. It did, however, buy surplus branded housings from Brinkmann (originally destined for Home Depot).

If they are designing and build everything then why aren’t they selling the collars just like they sell their other optical components…

Hey, how are you? :)

lampyris
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Enderman wrote:
If they are designing and build everything then why aren’t they selling the collars just like they sell their other optical components…

Post 26 explains why.

If you spent more time reading posts instead of concentrating on your passive/aggressive replies, you might learn something Enderman.

ClusterFlux
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The answer is pretty simple to understand. The RLT is a patented invention, and Wavien is a licensing company. Just like you can’t go out and make RLT reflectors, and sell them commercially (without owning the IP), neither can Marinebeam. IP licenses are very restrictive for very obvious reasons.

To help you better understand it, let’s say that Marinebeam (or any licensee) had the unlimited right to sell the RLT components that they manufacture, and Maglite wanted to use the RLT technology in their high-volume LED flashlights. Maglite could easily avoid the half-a-million dollar licensing fee, as well as a per flashlight royalty to Wavien, by simply buying the RLT collars directly from the licensee. That would be great for the licensee (and Maglite), but not so good for the company trying to continue to license the IP to others.

Contrary to what one may assume, Wavien was primarily interested in selling licenses, not individual components to modders and hobbyists. They made and sold very modest amounts of the RLT modules and hand-built flashlights only to generate some buzz, and as proof-of-principle to potential licensees that the technology worked.

Jeff

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