Review: 4 way 16340 Test

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old4570
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Review: 4 way 16340 Test

100_3041.jpg

 

Been sitting on these batteries for a while , waiting for some spare time to do the testing [ quite time consuming ] , and I had some time today , so better late then never.


Soshine 16340 unprotected - 16.3mm Dia , 33.9mm Long - I got these two from Don some time ago , and with nothing to test them against , they sat around doing much of nothing . Discharged both cells @ 0.5A with the Imax B6 and they returned 414mA and 448mA [ claimed capacity 700mAh ] . Now in the runtime test there was no protection circuit to to cut discharge bellow 3v and I ran it down to 2.9v @ rest [ there you go ] and therun time test went for 30 minutes . [ Came from 4 pack sold at Manafont ] 


Fireworm 16340 protected - 16.5mm Dia , 34.8mm Long - I purchased these as I was some what impressed by the Fireworm 18650's I got some time ago , but I guess you cant judge a 16340 by the performance of a 18650 . Discharging both cells @ 0.5A returned 341mA and 364mA [ 1000mAh claimed ] , the runtime test was terminated when the protection circuit cut in at 28minutes and 15 seconds . [ Ebay ] 


Xtar 16340 protected - 16.4mm Dia , 35mm Long - Again , purchased these on the reputation of the 18650's . Discharging both cells @ 0.5A returned 437mA and 451mA [ 600mAh claimed- I needed a magnifier to see it ] , the runtime test was terminated when the protection circuit cut in at 33minutes and 30 seconds .

[ Xtar on Ebay ] 


graph-1.jpg


Th run time test was done in a single mode L2m with a low voltage drop in [ Solarforce 0.8-4.2v ] . You can see the Soshine boost seriously as it drops below 3v , the other batteries were stopped by the protection circuit , so I have given them a 0 value . 


graph2-1.jpg


Discharge capability test .  3 different lights were used , my good XR-E R2 [ L2M 18650 ] , L2m with SSC P7 , and my Ultrafire A20 XM-L T5 .


Conclusion : 

If there is a conclusion to be drawn from this , its that Solarforce really needs to put the V2 16340 on the market , other than that , the other batteries were simply disappointing . The capacity of all 3 test subjects were very low , if Solarforce can make a 16340 that tested at 721mA @ 0.5A I cant see why 600mA capacity should be out of the question . 


 Always remember , the easiest thing in the world to do , is to expel hot air from your lungs and through some vocal chords ..
The resulting sound may , or may not be worth listening too ….

 

Edited by: sb56637 on 08/26/2014 - 17:47
Match
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That's good news about the solarforce V2.  Currently the only ones I've had any luck with are the IMR 16340's.  Then again, the only other ones I've ever used are the flame trustfires, which have been complete and utter crap for me (only with these two particular 16340's).

old4570
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Dont know why , but seems a good 16340 is a rare find , so the search continues . 

 Always remember , the easiest thing in the world to do , is to expel hot air from your lungs and through some vocal chords ..
The resulting sound may , or may not be worth listening too ….

 

2100
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Match, I just measured the full bore current dump of my unprotected trustfire flames, it was 13.7A.

It was a honest mistake, i meant to measure voltage but did not check that it was wired for current.  LOL!  I was like wow, 13.7V.   2 seconds later I felt the battery went warm and immediately pulled the plug after realising what I have done.

Yeah, my DMM leads can do 13A.  Cool

old4570
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Did you measure a Short ?  

 Always remember , the easiest thing in the world to do , is to expel hot air from your lungs and through some vocal chords ..
The resulting sound may , or may not be worth listening too ….

 

2100
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old4570 wrote:

Did you measure a Short ?  

Well I did not actually mean to measure a short, but yeah technically I just measured a short.  It was an accident.  I was like WTF 13 volts?  Oh...13A.  Uhh...why is the battery going hot within 2 seconds?  Abort abort abort!  Sealed

Battery is still fine. 

 

Yes, the whole Li-Co actually did go warm within like 2 seconds. You can feel the temperature difference by just a 2 seconds short between this and another unshorted 16340.

old4570
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you were measuring the prelude to a boom .  

 Always remember , the easiest thing in the world to do , is to expel hot air from your lungs and through some vocal chords ..
The resulting sound may , or may not be worth listening too ….

 

2100
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old4570 wrote:

you were measuring the prelude to a boom .  

Yep....  so we can say that 2 seconds does not make Li-Co go boom.   I think we need like a minute?  Like that Trustfire X6 on DX case.

Temperature has a part in it as well i guess / thermal runaway is 180 deg C.  But 0 to 2 seconds, it raised like from 28 deg C to 35 deg C.  The heat gradient was instantly "feelable".

Not too bad, I don't think 16340 can blow fingers apart. I had blown 7.2V NiCd before. 

Big packs here : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMy2_qNO2Y0

Lower velocity : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQjudHKh-bI&feature=related

Microwave heating Lipo : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRwyiR-FnhQ&feature=related

Burning 2S1P 700mAH which is 2X of our case. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnbarHvBpLo&feature=watch_response

Gh0st
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old4570 wrote:

Conclusion : 

If there is a conclusion to be drawn from this , its that Solarforce really needs to put the V2 16340 on the market ......,

 

+1

 

I've been looking to buy some 16340's for a couple of weeks now. I searched, and searched, and searched, but couldn't find the SF V2's any where. Frown

I've almost pulled the trigger on some protected AW's multiple times, but haven't yet, and keep hoping the SF's hit the market soon.  (Or someone will tell me where I can find the buggers?!)

 

old4570
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I contacted Solarforce , and they told me there wont be any more :

Seems that after the first batch there may have been some negativity about there size .

So Solarforce has decided not to produce the V2 16340  ..

I did suggest that the cells were too good not to bring to market , and maybe they should be marked as 17360 so that folks dont think they are a direct replacement for CR123A  and to give buyers a idea of there true size .. 

The ones I have wont fit every light [ 1x16340 ] , but they will fit ones with a little extra wiggle room for a 16340 . 

Oh well , I hope Solarforce will reconsider ..  

 Always remember , the easiest thing in the world to do , is to expel hot air from your lungs and through some vocal chords ..
The resulting sound may , or may not be worth listening too ….

 

fishinfool
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Thanks for your hard work Matt!  

 

Don wrote:

"But as I said long ago, you are more likely to be killed by a dead fish dropped by a seagull in the Sahara Desert than by a lithium ion

okwchin
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marketed at 17360 would work. Theres a known market for 18340s, which we know are longer with protection. Oh well. 

 

Im still using my trustfire flames, which i havent done a discharge test on yet. But i do put in 500-550 mA back, so it cant be more than 500mA capacity...

"like everyone else - I’m looking for my next “last” flashlight" -  ohnonothimagain

2100
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That's a shame, I have 4pcs of the V1 and they are pretty good.  V2 would fit L2m really nicely.

Budgeteer
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Thanks for the test. Pretty disappointed in the XTAR which i had great expectations. Did you had only 1 sample? Anyway not looking good for cosistency in any case... :/

Still pretty hard to find a good 16340...

kragmutt wrote:

They're gonna send you a green redcat with a black LED.

Hrvoje
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Just tested 2 unprotected "flame" Trustfire. Discarge current 0.5 A, cut off at 3 V. One cell returned 619 mAh, another 597 mAh. Not bad, I think these batteries are still the best value for money.

old4570
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I need to buy some Flame trustfires , I have a pair , but there getting old now .  

 Always remember , the easiest thing in the world to do , is to expel hot air from your lungs and through some vocal chords ..
The resulting sound may , or may not be worth listening too ….

 

tbenedict
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I know they aren't exactly budget, but how do the AW ones compare?  I need to either get a pair or 17670 for my unbored 6P.

mitro
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tbenedict wrote:

I know they aren't exactly budget, but how do the AW ones compare?  I need to either get a pair or 17670 for my unbored 6P.

I'll have to verify it later, but I remember them being ~550mAh when I tested the pair I have @ 0.5A.
old4570
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 Always remember , the easiest thing in the world to do , is to expel hot air from your lungs and through some vocal chords ..
The resulting sound may , or may not be worth listening too ….

 

Don
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Most 16340s are junk. I speak from bitter experience.

 

But a few aren't. Matt (old4570) is the guy to ask about which ones aren't garbage.

 

The numbers from my light tests are always to be found here.

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0ApkFM37n_QnRdDU5MDNzOURjYllmZHI...

old4570
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Don is right , finding a good 16340 is like finding gold ...

Even I have a few AW16340 ....

There on about 2 years old , so finding something newer ? 

 Always remember , the easiest thing in the world to do , is to expel hot air from your lungs and through some vocal chords ..
The resulting sound may , or may not be worth listening too ….

 

mitro
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I'm starting to wonder why people bother with 16340 lights (particularly single cell ones). Is it more of a primary thing (the cr123 @ 3v is more efficient/brighter than a single lithium AA) or is it that people don't realize how weak most 16340's are?

It seems that at best a great 16340 is equivalent to a run of the mill 14500. Besides that, you have a lot more primary options/availability in the AA size.

That Solarforce, while being the best of the bunch, is also the biggest. I could see there being issues with it fitting some lights. If you are using them in an 18mm light you going to get more capacity from an 18350.

agenthex
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I think it's mostly a historical thing. Traditionally, the only way to get "lithium power" was with cr123a's. That's why you see big lights that only fit 2x 16mm, instead of the safer and larger 18650.

I personally prefer 14500/aa's, too.

 

The really hard thing though is getting a cheaper light that is well regulated for both. The only one I have is the ITP c7t, only 0.6A on 14500 and quite bright, and like 1.5-2A (forget which) on AA, instead of 1A+ on DD xr-e's, and 1.5A on xp-e's (which I don't even use w/ lithiums for fear of burning them up). An xp-g DD on a good boost regulator might be good though.

Reading this makes you smarter: http://lesswrong.com/

mitro
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agenthex wrote:

I think it's mostly a historical thing. Traditionally, the only way to get "lithium power" was with cr123a's. That's why you see big lights that only fit 2x 16mm, instead of the safer and larger 18650.

That was my first thought: legacy. I agree that most drivers leave a lot to be desired when using more than one chemistry (especially in the budget realm).
old4570
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There not that bad , the thing is , folks like power , and the 16340 is not the best option if you want power ..

How many are happy with a 350mA to 500mA RCR123A light that would offer over one hour on high ? 

100Lumen is plenty of light , but many of us want all we can get , and for that the little 16340 is limited .

We are starting to push the envelope with the 18650 as well , so it looks like battery technology needs to catch up . 

 Always remember , the easiest thing in the world to do , is to expel hot air from your lungs and through some vocal chords ..
The resulting sound may , or may not be worth listening too ….

 

2100
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Well, I guess some really need the smallest size they can get, stuff like Tank007 M10. Such 16340 lights linger in the size realm of 65mm-75mm length, and 20-21mm dia. For close up work, 100 lumens is more than enough, if its XP-G 200+ lumens is good for fun though.  14500 would make it 95mm length and also significantly heavier.

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I know this is an old thread, but I wanted to post that Solarforce is once again offering batteries 18650, 16340 and CR123’s for sale to the U.S. Currently they are offering the old White 16340’s plus the Green & white 16340’s (I assume the V2 as tested above).

I had another Hong Kong vendor ship me batteries via air mail and I received the order including the batteries in 11 days. So I asked Solarforce if they would consider shipping batteries to the U.S. again and now they are. I asked Solarforce to consider shipping batteries to the U.S. again because of how well the Solarforce V2 did in this test. I normally use the Xtars and have no complaints with their 16340 or the 18350’s. But if the Solarforce are as good as they tested here then I want the Solarforce 16340 880’s.

Thanks for doing this review.

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Thanks again for this test. I just received my first order of Solarforce Green & White 16340’s (really 17360’s) 3.7v 880mAh.They charge slower than a 16340 600mAh, more like my 18350 850mAh’s but seem to work fine. They also have some of the older only white 16340’s available.Plus some old and new 18650’s.

It took 12 calendar days from they time I received the order confirmation email until they arrived at my door on the East Coast of the U.S. Solarforce non battery orders usually arrive in 8 calendar days. Non battery orders usually fly to JFK in NYC and then to me via USPS. The battery order came via Singapore Post and flew into San Francisco and then to me via USPS. No additional charge for the battery shipping just the normal $2 tracking fee.

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Oh yeah? Did you buy direct fro solarforce? I’m interested but there could be fitment issues at 17mm.

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Yes direct from Solarforce sales. hey now have a catagory for batteries and chargers that show their rechargeable and non rechargeable batteries. I thought the rechargeable 16340’s would be close to my Xtar 16340’s but when I put one into my Trustfire L2M it was a snug fit and then I looked at the battery spec’s on the Solarforce website and saw that although they are listed as 16340’s they are really 17360’s with the protection circuit. For me it works out fine because the Trustfire L2M’s can’t take a 18350 because it is not bored out as much as the Solarforce bodies are but these 17360’s fit just right without rattling and have 33% more capacity than the Xtar 600mAh’s.

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One year later and Solarforce is still selling these. Measured 611mah and 624mah at about 0.2A
So not as good as previous tests it seems.

Overall they seem kind of cheap (the wrap job, the seams)

Glad most lights dont use this size anymore

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