testing a red XP-E, and comparing it to a red XR-C, 22/4/'14: XP-E2 results added in post #32

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CRANK
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Rmm at 1.9a would the red xpe2 make a Roche f12 get hot on high quickly? Or a tank007 e09?

djozz
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I did the red XP-E2 (630nm) test (with big thanks to MRsDNF who sent me a few leds for free, coming from Cutter), above stereo-picture is after the testing. I also re-tested the red XP-E because it was sitting there reflowed on the Noctigon already, and I wanted to re-check everything, now that I use a new power supply. Below are the results. BTW: the XP-E results match reasonably the former results of that same led in the OP, so my two (both lineair) power supplies more or less agree on their current measurement (jay!).

So, another improvement over the the XP-E, although the Vf of the XP-E2 seems to have raised, compared to the XP-E.

But, although I think what I see is mostly the real difference between XP-E and XP-E2, also keep in mind that the XP-E was an unknown bin bought from Fasttech, and the XP-E2 was the top P3 bin bought from Cutter. (EDIT: the Cree tool mentions there is a P4 bin, but Cutter's bin is P3)

wight
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Wow, that’s an impressive difference, even considering that it’s an unknown bin XP-E vs top bin XP-E2. It is fortunate that it started with such a low Vf. I can’t see the higher Vf being an issue for running a single emitter on a single li-ion.

Great work!

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
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RMM
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Your results match what I've seen and what my customers have reported; a very significant increase for sure.  More than what I think we've seen going from XP-G to XP-G2 and XM-L to XM-L2. 

Mountain Electronics : batteries, Noctigon, and much more! What's new? 

Striker
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May I ask why you test voltage, current and lumens? Smile
I think http://pct.cree.com/ can give you this data from all Cree LEDs.
So am I the only one who knows this or did I ignore something?

djozz
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I also did a test on a blue XP-E2 (also from Cutter), but no comparison to a blue XP-E. In short: 390 lumen at 2A, maximum=440 lumen at 3A (the absolute lumen numbers are not worth much when measured with a cheap chinese lux-meter that is especially off in the shorter wavelengths of the visible spectrum). I will post a graph later some time (if there is interest in that at all?). I have no green XP-E2, so no test on those I'm afraid.

djozz
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Striker wrote:
May I ask why you test voltage, current and lumens? Smile I think http://pct.cree.com/ can give you this data from all Cree LEDs. So am I the only one who knows this or did I ignore something?

I have not followed your link now (sorry, internet here is slow at the moment), but the last time I checked Cree's numbers, they had not measured the leds on copper boards, and gave no numbers on the higher currents we like to run the leds at.

Sometimes leds perform better than the manufacturers let us know Smile

EDIT: I had time to look into the Cree tool just now, and they indeed only give numbers for the red XP-E2 up to 700mA. Looking at the tool, a bit odd is that the Vf that they give is a bit higher than what I measured over the led wires (at 500mA it is 0.17V higher). My current setting in these measurements is not more precise than 100mA but still then the numbers that I measure are low compared to the tool (I checked, I did nothing wrong here, my voltmeter is correct within 10 mV, and any set-up inaccuracy would only make the voltage higher, not lower).

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nice, thanks for the results ,now we need to find a place to buy those red xpe2.

islisis
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thank you thank you for these tests! do put the blue one in a thread whereever you see fit =) very very helpful

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islisis wrote:
thank you thank you for these tests! do put the blue one in a thread whereever you see fit =) very very helpful

I will do a blue post Wink

And the test XP-E2 is in my favorite AA-zoomie for the time being, drawing 1.5A from the stock driver with an Efest 14500 battery Smile :

islisis
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nice, a red zoomie, you can become the new cat emperor 0:)
settling with my focus adjustable red laser pointer until i can get around to some new builds for now Wink

hank
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Wow, I’ve been looking for how to make an amber zoomie, just like your red one.
Amber ought to work the same as the red — if an amber is available anywhere.
Oh, please …. pointers welcome any time.

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I have this one : http://www.led-tech.de/en/High-Power-LEDs-Luxeon/Luxeon-REBEL/Luxeon-REBEL-on-PCB-LT-1012_49_85.html

NOT powerful, but really nice tint.

Want DC-fix? PM me!

hank
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Djozz, I love that AA-zoomie you show above. What’s the host and where did you get it?
(I can find what looks like that several places but nowhere that describes what’s inside)
I’d like to put an amber into a host using the stock driver (figured I’d blow up the LED if I tried that with most lights)

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hank wrote:
Djozz, I love that AA-zoomie you show above. What's the host and where did you get it? (I can find what looks like that several places but nowhere that describes what's inside) I'd like to put an amber into a host using the stock driver (figured I'd blow up the LED if I tried that with most lights)

http://www.tinydeal.com/focus-highlight-180-lumens-3-modes-cree-r2-flash...

It is optically identical to a lot of 18650 zoomies, but with AA-size battery. The lens is a larger diameter than the sk68, so it throws a bit better, and IMO it is better looking too. The build quality is very decent.

hank
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(are you overdriving that red XP-E2 at 1.5A, or is the driver protecting the LED? getting hot? don’t know what driver is in it, obviously, I’ll get one and try)

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hank wrote:
(are you overdriving that red XP-E2 at 1.5A, or is the driver protecting the LED? getting hot? don't know what driver is in it, obviously, I'll get one and try)

The driver in this flashlight is a standard budget AA boost driver that goes sort of direct drive on 14500 li-ions. On li-ions the current is limited by resistances in the system, including on the driver board. 1.5A is ok for the XP-E2, as you can see in the graph above, I would like the led to be driven at 2A so I may swap the driver sometime, or put the led in another host (I have a C8 host doing nothing yet...)

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hank wrote:
if an amber is available anywhere. Oh, please …. pointers welcome any time.

Maybe the Osram Oslon SSL 80? I found them here: http://www.led-tech.de/en/High-Power-LEDs-Osram/Osram-Oslon—SSL/OSRAM-Oslon-SSL-80-amber-on-Star-LT-1970_206_207.html
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> Osram

mA typ.: 350 mA
mA max.: 1000 mA
V typ.: 2 V
V max.: 2.6 V
Watt: 0,7 W

That’s a higher maximum than the Cree — searching for that available near me.

While searching, that led me to a wonderful collection of LED spectra:
http://www.1023world.net/diy/spectra/

that may be useful for comparisons (much in Japanese I can’t read

islisis
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oh wow, great site! should come in handy Smile

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Thanks once again for your testing!

What type of use are red emitters most useful for? Besides beeing   8)

BLF LED database – collaboration spreadsheet and latest news about where to buy LEDs
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/19342

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Red is the least hard on night vision and penetrates fog and smoke best.

Flashlight designers should look at lighthouses and pottery.
这些谁设计的手电筒应该看灯塔,以及在陶器。

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Got one of those Cofly AA-zoomies you recommended,
swapped in an amber emitter
(XR-E on 16mm base from
http://www.fasttech.com/products/1609/10001863/1134700-non-white-cree-xr... )

I, er, accidentally de-domed it, while soldering the leads to it.
Fell right off. Guess I got the base too warm.
Oops.
Used it anyhow.

Result is a lovely amber zoomie, smooth flood, nice image of the emitter at zoom.

Now I want to try, I guess an XP-E2? Mouser has the colored Crees — XP-E, XP-E2, and XP-C

Hm. around $2 for XPEBAM-L1-R250-00901
around $5 for XPEAMB-L1-0000-00901 danged if I can tell the difference.
Same pattern for reds and other colors. Time to study more.
Ack.

Any source for amber and red XP-E2s already mounted on a good base?
Else, I’m going to have to learn how to do surface mounting.

penumbra
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inll-outdoor Wink

wight
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hank wrote:
Got one of those Cofly AA-zoomies you recommended,
swapped in an amber emitter
(XR-E on 16mm base from
http://www.fasttech.com/products/1609/10001863/1134700-non-white-cree-xr... )

I, er, accidentally de-domed it, while soldering the leads to it.
Fell right off. Guess I got the base too warm.
Oops.
Used it anyhow.

Result is a lovely amber zoomie, smooth flood, nice image of the emitter at zoom.

Now I want to try, I guess an XP-E2? Mouser has the colored Crees — XP-E, XP-E2, and XP-C

Hm. around $2 for XPEBAM-L1-R250-00901
around $5 for XPEAMB-L1-0000-00901 danged if I can tell the difference.
Same pattern for reds and other colors. Time to study more.
Ack.

Any source for amber and red XP-E2s already mounted on a good base?
Else, I’m going to have to learn how to do surface mounting.


The first order code you posted is for a Gen1 XP-E (XPEAMB), the second order code you posted is for a Gen2 (XPEBAM). Cree uses the letter B in their order codes to designate Gen2 emitters, I think that’s across all their lines.

penumbra wrote:
inll-outdoor Wink

I think not. intl-outdoor doesn’t even sell amber emitters.

I’m not aware of anyone selling amber emitters on good stars.

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

hank
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there’s one: discount code ‘dealsmachine’ and make sure to unselect insurance on checkout
http://www.dealsmachine.com/best_141829.html (sorry for the distraction).
Ok, I found Oldlumens’ video on surface mounting a tiny LED, I guess I can do that.

Thanks for clarifying, I’ll get one or two XPEBAMs and Noctigons and follow your lead.

hank
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er — XP-E2 goes on the same Noctigon base as the XP-G2?
(I think so, the E2 is not stated explicitly at Mountainelectronics listing)

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Yes it does.

Want DC-fix? PM me!

hank
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here’s their index for the two different vintages for those amber LEDs; just a slight difference in forward voltage (tenth of a volt) and power rating (half a watt) between the first and second generation:

http://www.mouser.com/Cree-Inc/Optoelectronics/LED-Lighting/LED-Emitters...LEDs-Single-Color/_/N-8usfnZscv7?P=1z0yt0uZ1z0wueaZ1yzs6ioZ1yzs65w

now for a magnifying glass ….

wight
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Cree’s XP-E and XP-E2 datasheets do not show a performance difference between the two generations of red LED that djozz tested (as far as I can tell). Unlike the white gen2 series where 85c is used to test Gen2 instead of 25c on Gen1, yielding roughly similar flux numbers, Gen1 and 2 of color XP-series LEDs is shown at 25°c.

What’s interesting here is that when djozz tested a gen1 vs gen2 red XP-E, the Gen2 was still better.

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

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