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Werner
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I thought I did something wrong, I would definitely feel bad if they would send a 1$ order separately.

DB Custom
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I used the little FET Scott sent me with the then new BLFTiny10 and put it in my Texas Poker, running a bit over 3A from an Efest IMR10440 to a de-domed XP-G2 R5 1A. None of the extra resistors or such was known at the time. I don’t have moon engaged, just running 4 modes. And it works fine. So far. I use it pretty often and in various modes, but usually set it to come on in the lowest mode before shutting it down. After I built it, the issues came into light of the possible mode changing failures. I had considered opening it back up to engage moon mode, but feared it would bring this issue to my driver.

Should I worry about an issue arising? This is an expensive light, one of a kind, and I don’t relish making changes unnecessarily. If something get’s damaged it might not be possible to replace or at the very least will be expensive to do so. With it in working order, should I worry about it?

Pretty sure I’d never go this route again, having the full custom Ti light made turned into quite a more costly venture than expected. With the cost of an Olight SR90 AND Fenix TK61 combined rolled into this 3” Ti light, I’m not eager to make changes to it that don’t need to be made, ya know? I’ve already been into it 4 times with driver changes and one emitter change. As most of y’all know, the more you work on one the easier it is to kill reliability. I initially had requested a second pill, forseeing this potential even a year ago. But, alas, I only have the working light with no spares.

WarHawk-AVG
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Agreed if OSHPark had an “add to cart” deal and you could order multiple boards that would be excellent for sure

Cereal_killer
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Remember its a tiny company. I think it has to do with how they process them once the panels come back from fab, I imagine it can be pretty confusing breaking all the boards apart and packaging them up so if they’ve got a system that works I dont think they need to change it.

I’ve personally placed over 3 dozen orders for over 120 boards and never once had an issue, they’ve got their system down pretty well, other than the strange way you check out for each set of boards at a time it’s a pretty hassle free system they’re running. I’ve said this before but cudos to Lean and the rest of the OSHPark team, they enable so much of what we do here, this flashlight hobby of ours would be a lot more expensive if it wernt for them.

 RIP  SPC Joey Riley, KIA 11/24/14. Now I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.

comfychair
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I think it's almost certain that any board that has re-used the Nanjg's original diode/capacitor layout in the power supply to the MCU suffers from the same overvoltage thing shown in my scope images. Even an original 105C does it, though when driving 7135s it doesn't rise to the level that causes odd behavior.

Move the capacitor at C1. Originally it goes between the diode's output and ground. The boosting goes away if it's moved to between B+ and ground, and then gate/pulldown resistors are no longer needed. In existing designs replace the gate resistor with a jumper. In new designs their pads can be eliminated entirely, freeing up valuable space.

 

Is there a guide anywhere for designing these things? Is there anything that will let you edit the design files from Oshpark?

wight
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Design? No. Layout? Yes. Matthaus posted a thread on layout using Eagle. Learning Eagle is definitely a both-feet-first endeavor.

Editing what’s on Oshpark? Mostly no. Many/most people upload only “gerber” format output files to Oshpark. In an EDA suite such as Eagle you work with it’s native format and then output gerbers as the finished, mostly uneditable product. Think of it as writing a document in MS Word and then printing it to an Adobe Acrobat file. Very similar end result here – while you can mess around with a Gerber, it’s about as effective as trying to make changes to a complex document that’s already been committed to a PDF.

Mattaus and WarHawk-AVG both have the BLF20DD Eagle files IIRC. I believe it was Mattaus’s intention to keep the circulation of the Eagle BRD/SCH files down in order to prevent a flood of minor variants confusing people (or worse, a flood of non-functional variants confusing people). I’m sure one of them can hook you up!

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

Mattaus
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I've been out of the loop but if anyone wants changes made just let me know. The only thing I ask is that we keep the changes to single revisions and preferably single versions of a particular size. I don't want to have to manage 5 (bum plucked number) different versions of the 17DD just so that we can have one with a resistor, one without, one with a slightly different layout, one with extra caps, one with a FET, one with AMC chips, and so on.

I'm pretty bad at revision management as it is, going crazy is a recipe for disaster. The ultimate goal here is ONE perfect DD board.

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I’m up for it Mattaus if you want to send me the brd and sch files….I can tweak what you have and then send em back to you to post to OSHPark…this way the revision stays sane

wight
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wight wrote:
Uh-oh! Those spacer boards seem to be missing the center hole?!?

In reference to MRsDNF’s post #1046 – I made an error on my layout for the v13 contact-ring/adapter boards. I knew better, so it was just an oversight on my part. I will post a new version very soon, but not tonight.
Werner wrote:
I thought I did something wrong, I would definitely feel bad if they would send a 1$ order separately.
Dan @ OSHPark had this to say on shipping:
Quote:
PS: If you want to make a post on there with regards to shipping, send those fellows here: http://support.oshpark.com/support/solutions/articles/123330-shipping-in... We do have a nice system in place for handling the shipping, but it’s pretty complicated when we try to shuffle boards between panels. So, for small orders on different panels, it’s totally worth it for us to just ship them separately. So Werner is guilt free!

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

Mattaus
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Credit goes to WarHawk for fixing the boards up. I've removed the old 17/20DD boards and repalced them (and added a 22) with VERSION 1.0 of them. I've started fresh because the revision  numbers were going all over the place. I'll need a BOM provided for these as well. I will then add them to the description.

https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/IHvO85FY

https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/SNtRM4Vs

https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/D2dJbbBm

Cheers,

- Matt

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Nice Matt! Like'n the rev # - hopefully easier all around to track. Thanks Warhawk and of course, comfy! comfy has been amaz'n on this mod, plus I really like we now have other FET options.

wight
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I’m not going to keep beating on it, but as I said in comfychair’s thread I do not think that this is the ideal layout. My understanding is that C1 should be as close to MCU pin 8 as possible for best decoupling. Since we are putting C1 before D1, that means that by proxy D1 should also be as close as possible (to allow C1 to get closer).

comfychair clearly demonstrated that the board works as laid out now in the new v1’s, but that doesn’t mean that we won’t run into a scenario later where it’s a problem.

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

comfychair
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D1 is pretty dang close to pin 8, isn't it? It's closer than in the revision using gate resistors, the diode no longer has to move aside for the gate in/out vias. C1 physical location no longer matters as it's no longer filtering pin 8 directly (there's now a diode in the way), it's filtering battery voltage instead, which is where the big spike used to be.

The old boards with longer traces and jumpers all over work fine with the cap relocated, I am having a hard time imagining a scenario that would bring about anything like the issues you got with the old circuit.

wight
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Let me throw this at you: doesn’t that thought process apply to almost every decoupling cap? (“Just filter the supply voltage and there is no longer a need for the decoupling cap/caps!”) Yet they are still used and necessary.

EDIT: and I could have been more clear about D1 – I don’t care where it’s at. Getting C1 closer to pin8 is all I care about, D1 just happens to be in the way! So D1 has to get closer for C1 to get closer.

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

DB Custom
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Probably totally irrelevant, but I’ve not had any issues in some 20 lights I’ve built with these 17mm drivers. None. All work perfectly and almost every one is maxed out which is what they’re for, right? Since the extra resistors came into the picture I’ve just been building them all with the pull-down and gate resistors both, no issues anywhere. And I’m using a 200 ohm gate with the 10,000 ohm pull-down (I think that’s what the pull-down is, going on memory which is known fallible)

I don’t take measurements and readings and oscilloscope pictures, I assemble and use. Probably missing something somewhere but my stash of FET’s is dwindling, again, and everything I’ve used them in works. No complaints and very happy to have had the opportunity.

So, flawed or whatever…I still say thanks to all involved in making these happen! :bigsmile:

comfychair
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I don't understand this stuff well enough to see why C1 has to be in any particular spot in relation to pin 8. So I'm not saying it doesn't matter, I'm saying I don't understand why it matters. If D1's cathode were physically touching pin 8, and C1 tee'd directly off the anode to ground, how would it be different? It's still filtering the input to the diode and not the output. What would the positives of effectively zero-length traces be, compared to negatives of the trace lengths on the latest version?

I'm really not trying to argue you out of your position, just trying to understand what the improvement would be and/or what could go wrong.

comfychair
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DBCstm wrote:
Probably totally irrelevant, but I've not had any issues in some 20 lights I've built with these 17mm drivers. None. All work perfectly and almost every one is maxed out which is what they're for, right? Since the extra resistors came into the picture I've just been building them all with the pull-down and gate resistors both, no issues anywhere. And I'm using a 200 ohm gate with the 10,000 ohm pull-down (I think that's what the pull-down is, going on memory which is known fallible) I don't take measurements and readings and oscilloscope pictures, I assemble and use. Probably missing something somewhere but my stash of FET's is dwindling, again, and everything I've used them in works. No complaints and very happy to have had the opportunity. So, flawed or whatever...I still say thanks to all involved in making these happen! :bigsmile:

Yeah, but... the MCUs are still running at or over 6 volts, and the signal to the FET is really nasty and leaves the FET in the bad 'not really on and not really off' state for far too long while switching. The gate resistor only softens the spike when the FET turns off, which has the side effect of not spiking the MCU and causing it to shut down. It makes them function, but doesn't cure the initial root cause - that being the arrangement of diode+capacitor which creates an unintentional boost circuit.

wight
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comfychair wrote:

I don’t understand this stuff well enough to see why C1 has to be in any particular spot in relation to pin 8. So I’m not saying it doesn’t matter, I’m saying I don’t understand why it matters. If D1’s cathode were physically touching pin 8, and C1 tee’d directly off the anode to ground, how would it be different? It’s still filtering the input to the diode and not the output. What would the positives of effectively zero-length traces be, compared to negatives of the trace lengths on the latest version?

I’m really not trying to argue you out of your position, just trying to understand what the improvement would be and/or what could go wrong.

Fair enough. Unfortunately… I don’t understand my position that well myself. As you know, my understanding is that we want to put capacitance very close to sensitive but low-draw devices. The idea, as I understand it, is that in the event of a “problem” in the power supply the PCB traces provide enough resistance and/or inductance to allow the cap to smooth power for the nearby device “before” other factors can affect the cap.

If I’m way off base I hope some of our more knowledgeable folks will swoop in and point us to good explanations!

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

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A lot of what you guys write I just get the gist of but don’t fully comprehend. Is it possible to run the traces differently on the 17mm drivers so that a momentary switch can be used on the tail of a flashlight and not run a lead or wire alongside the battery? I would like the ability to use a momentary switch on the tail of a light using the FET, Star OS without making a jumper to the switch. In my imagination it’s possible but I lack the knowledge or skills to imagine how or write it out for Oshpark. Before I get too into this, is this possible to do?

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not."

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scottyhazzard wrote:
A lot of what you guys write I just get the gist of but don’t fully comprehend. Is it possible to run the traces differently on the 17mm drivers so that a momentary switch can be used on the tail of a flashlight and not run a lead or wire alongside the battery? I would like the ability to use a momentary switch on the tail of a light using the FET, Star OS without making a jumper to the switch. In my imagination it’s possible but I lack the knowledge or skills to imagine how or write it out for Oshpark. Before I get too into this, is this possible to do?

Well with the Small Sun ZY-A629, the driver plate at the front of the flashlight (where our drivers currently sit) is a simple contact plate with a resistor bridge to ground, the actual driver that controls the flashies and stuff are on the clicky end. It would be possible to design the clicky end to be the “driver” by having the electronics be on that end, but the architecture (space for batteries/springs) would be incredibly difficult from flashlight to flashlight.

Imagine a C8 (or many of our favorite lights) that was end cap driver driven

Sorry for the derail

comfychair
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scottyhazzard wrote:
A lot of what you guys write I just get the gist of but don't fully comprehend. Is it possible to run the traces differently on the 17mm drivers so that a momentary switch can be used on the tail of a flashlight and not run a lead or wire alongside the battery? I would like the ability to use a momentary switch on the tail of a light using the FET, Star OS without making a jumper to the switch. In my imagination it's possible but I lack the knowledge or skills to imagine how or write it out for Oshpark. Before I get too into this, is this possible to do?

For that hardware/firmware, you just have to ground pin 2 to control it. The switch can even be on a remote 2-wire cable.  On some it would be easier than others (ZY-T08, with batteries side by side, leaves space for a wire down the middle). Doing it in a way that the tube can still unscrew from the head without messing up the switch connection is the part where it gets not so straightforward.

Cereal_killer
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I know this has been covered but there are currently several different threads on the subject and its almost impossible to find info, as is with the new design with the CAP on Batt+ to GND and no gate resistor does the AOD510 FET work properly?

 RIP  SPC Joey Riley, KIA 11/24/14. Now I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.

Cereal_killer
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Mattaus wrote:

Credit goes to WarHawk for fixing the boards up. I’ve removed the old 17/20DD boards and repalced them (and added a 22) with VERSION 1.0 of them. I’ve started fresh because the revision  numbers were going all over the place. I’ll need a BOM provided for these as well. I will then add them to the description.

https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/IHvO85FY

https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/SNtRM4Vs

https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/D2dJbbBm

Cheers,

- Matt

What is the [what looks like an 0805 pad] marked 4 connected to MCU pin2?

Also on this board where would the zener diode go?

 RIP  SPC Joey Riley, KIA 11/24/14. Now I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.

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This is like quantum mechanics, the more I learn the less I know. Glasses My goal is to plug it all together in something like a convoy S2 or Sinner’s copper 18350 host. How thin could the wires safely be? They don’t carry the full amps that the light will be using if I understand correctly. Then if I run a wire to the switch through the body, how do I change the battery of a single cell light without having to remove the wire?

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not."

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I guess we need Matt to have success with his little switch. That would probably be the easiest. (For me)

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not."

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scottyhazzard wrote:
This is like quantum mechanics, the more I learn the less I know. Glasses My goal is to plug it all together in something like a convoy S2 or Sinner's copper 18350 host. How thin could the wires safely be? They don't carry the full amps that the light will be using if I understand correctly. Then if I run a wire to the switch through the body, how do I change the battery of a single cell light without having to remove the wire?

Yep, those are the obstacles you'll have to figure out and the solution will be different for different lights. And on some it may well turn out to not be possible (or practical).

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Cereal_killer wrote:
Mattaus wrote:

Credit goes to WarHawk for fixing the boards up. I've removed the old 17/20DD boards and repalced them (and added a 22) with VERSION 1.0 of them. I've started fresh because the revision  numbers were going all over the place. I'll need a BOM provided for these as well. I will then add them to the description.

https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/IHvO85FY

https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/SNtRM4Vs

https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/D2dJbbBm

Cheers,

- Matt

What is the [what looks like an 0805 pad] marked 4 connected to MCU pin2? Also on this board where would the zener diode go?

Resistor at pin 2 is for the off-time 1uF/10v capacitor. Zener diode would go anywhere on the trace from the D1 pad (resistor instead of diode, on a zener-mod driver) and MCU pin 8. Most convenient would probably be to put it between one of the vias and to ground.

http://75.65.123.78/ii.jpg

wight
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Cereal_killer wrote:
I know this has been covered but there are currently several different threads on the subject and its almost impossible to find info, as is with the new design with the CAP on Batt+ to GND and no gate resistor does the AOD510 FET work properly?
This should be no problem.

Mattaus wrote:

Credit goes to WarHawk for fixing the boards up. I’ve removed the old 17/20DD boards and repalced them (and added a 22) with VERSION 1.0 of them. I’ve started fresh because the revision  numbers were going all over the place. I’ll need a BOM provided for these as well. I will then add them to the description.

https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/IHvO85FY

https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/SNtRM4Vs

https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/D2dJbbBm

Cheers,

- Matt

I see what you are talking about – the old version numbering definitely went pear-shaped. We had these things:
  1. Original Gangsta
  2. v2 / Rev 2 / V2.0 / etc?
  3. V3.0 (BLF15DD V3.0 )

All of the old boards had the same silkscreen info between versions (such as “BLF17DD” for example). I see that the silkscreen has been updated to include the V1.0 on the latest boards. For telling physical boards apart this functions, but for discussion on the forum it seems that we still have a nomenclature problem, depending on how you plan to increment that number and how many iterations we have. I assume that you plan to iterate by 0.1 (so the next version is V1.1). As long as there aren’t more than 9 more revisions it shouldn’t be an issue. I’d have gone with a different, zero-overlap, scheme such as as starting at “r100”.

scottyhazzard wrote:
How thin could the wires safely be? They don’t carry the full amps that the light will be using if I understand correctly. Then if I run a wire to the switch through the body, how do I change the battery of a single cell light without having to remove the wire?
Very, very thin. If you were determined to make this happen in a regular host, I can only think of one solid way to make it work. Choose an oversize host (Solarforce L2i springs to mind, or any 26650 host) and run it on an 18650, two 18350’s, whatever. Now you need a battery sleeve setup with two coaxial rings on it, to carry the signal from the switch PCB to the driver. (probably easiest to do this with two copper sheets rolled into concentric cylinders with an insulator on the inside, the between side, and the outside) The special driver will have (semi eliptic?) springs to contact the coaxial rings, so will the switch PCB or a contact board attached to the switch PCB. Remember that you’ll also need to get the battery shorted to GND. This is all doable, but I’d say neither you nor I really want to go through all the work.

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

comfychair
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Yes, AOD510 works with no gate resistor after relocating the cap.

wight
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comfychair wrote:

Cereal_killer wrote:
Mattaus wrote:

Credit goes to WarHawk for fixing the boards up. I’ve removed the old 17/20DD boards and repalced them (and added a 22) with VERSION 1.0 of them. I’ve started fresh because the revision  numbers were going all over the place. I’ll need a BOM provided for these as well. I will then add them to the description.

https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/IHvO85FY

https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/SNtRM4Vs

https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/D2dJbbBm

Cheers,

- Matt

What is the [what looks like an 0805 pad] marked 4 connected to MCU pin2? Also on this board where would the zener diode go?

Resistor at pin 2 is for the off-time 1uF/10v capacitor. Zener diode would go anywhere on the trace from the D1 pad (resistor instead of diode, on a zener-mod driver) and MCU pin 8. Most convenient would probably be to put it between one of the vias and to ground.

You are thinking of MCU pin 7 (aka PB2).

Cereal_killer is asking about PB3 (MCU pin 2). The pad is a 0805 and it’s there for the offtime cap. When used with the ontime firmware this is also called “Star 4”.
EDIT: Clearly that’s exactly what comfychair said. I was confused about what he said, even though he said it quite plainly. He was correct and I just repeated what he said!

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

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