I made and checked a new reference light for output measurements

When I do output measurements on flashlights or emitters it is the oldfashioned way: with ceiling bounce lux-measurements. For relative output within a measurement series of one flashlight or emitter it works very well. To obtain true output values it is less suitable (the lux-reading is somewhat angle-dependent, therefore a bit sensitive for beam patterns, especially the results for zoomies I do not trust fully) but I believe it works for my personal goal: getting within 5% of reality, I never claim to be more precise than that for absolute numbers.

Like many I am tempted to get my measurements more precise. But that means a lot of investment in time and money. I could purchase a Fluke meter to get the current measurements really precise (500 euro), a really decent power supply for 20A (500 euro), build a integrating sphere (many hobby-hours), get myself a good and calibrated luxmeter that unlike the cheap ones really follows the eye sensitivity curve (540 euro), and obtain a calibrated reference light source for calibration of the sphere (who knows how expensive that is?). I may invest in a new power supply one of these days, but that will probably be it for this year.

For calibration of my ceiling bounce measurements my make-do reference light sources are two flashlights, a Sunwayman D40A (980lm at start according to the manual) and a Thrunite Archer1A (178lm on a fresh alkaline according to the manual), the actual copies that I have of these flashlights do not necessarily have precise those values but at least if I measure them, relative to each other the values match the official specs. I have to say that for my standard set-up I do check the calibration regularly, but the conversion value from lux to lumen measures the same every time, so the set-up is quite robust.

For the Archer I use up a new Duracel battery for every measurement that I want to calibrate, and both the Archer and the D40A suffer some output drop during runtime, not much, they are both well stabilised, but it is there. These flashlights are ok, but not ideal.

So of the improvements that were possible the easiest one was to make myself a reference lightsource with constant known output. Officially that is supposed to be a tungsten lamp connected to a very well stabilised power supply, but that is expensive, difficult and no fun, it had to be a flashlight. A good heatsinked underdriven lineair regulated flashlight should do the job. I made one a few months ago (Ultrafire K10 host, cool white XM-L2 on Sinkpad soldered to brass pill, 2x7135 one-mode driver, Efest 14500 battery) and yesterday I made a second one (Convoy M2, XM-L2 5B1 80CRI on Sinkpad soldered to brass pill, 4x7135 NANJG 101-AK 3mode driver, 18650 battery).

And indeed, they give very nice stable outputs, more stable than the D40A or Archer, but the output is not completely flat unfortunately. I did some runtime tests on the modded Convoy M2, and on the Sunwayman D40A and the Trunite Archer 1A (not on the Ultrafire K10, but it looks like it behaves quite like the Convoy). The Convoy I did twice, first a 40 minutes runtime starting with a full NCR18650B (2200mAh) battery, 20 minutes switched-off for cooldown, then a 20 minutes runtime on the now half empty battery. Here are the results:

As you can see, the output of the Convoy is more constant than both the SWM on Turbo and the Thrunite. But after the temperature step-down to high, after 3.5 minutes, the output of the SWM was really constant, perhaps if the SWM was started on high it is even more constant than the Convoy even in the first minutes, I will test that sometime. EDIT 30/3/2014: it is in post #3

For the use as a reference light, the first minute is the most interesting (you do not want to wait half an hour for the reference light to be ready for calibration), so here's the first 4 minutes of the graph stretched:

So in the first minute the SWM and the Convoy stay constant within my 5% , the Archer does that only within the first 20 seconds. But usually I do the calibration between 10 and 30 seconds after switch-on, the output drops are then: SWM D40A: 0.42%, ConvoyM2: 0.3%, Thrunite Archer: still 4.3%.

Although the 7135 chips should deliver a constant current regardless of the input voltage, there is a slight difference between starting with a full battery and with a half full battery. The graph zoomed-in between 400 and 430 lumen (blue=full battery, red=half battery):

After 4 minutes the two lines as good as overlap again. This reference light works even a bit better if a not completely full battery is used.

Note that both the Sunwayman and the Archer in these tests have a slightly lower output than spec'ed, that is because of the way they were fixed next to the lux-meter sensor: the hotspot is not projected straight above the sensor but a bit to the side. For normal checking calibration I project them by hand, on the right spot.

I'm happy with the new lights, the Convoy probably even makes a useful (but not 'wow' of course) camping light: it is 4000K 80CRI, it is efficient: 74 OTF-lm/W, it has 425 lumen on high with 6.2klux@1meter throw, runtime on a 3400mAh battery should be 2.5 hours, on low I measure 22 lumen (50 hours), on med 132 lumen (8 hours).

Oh, and while I was at making reference lights, I have asked a company that does light calibrations (lichtconsult.nl) what it costs to measure the true output of my two reference lights for me in their sphere, say after 10, 20 and 60 seconds. They were really nice, answered that they could do one measurement for me with an official certificate and email the two other numbers off-the-record for free as well. It was 230 euro's for the first flashlight and 40 euro's for the second one. Hmm, I think I will stick to my usual 'just about' way for a while ;-)

230 euro’s? Holy crap!

I recharged the eneloops and did a runtime output graph of the SWM D40A on high. I sort of expected that it would be a perfect flat output, but the output did gradually drop a bit during the 30 minutes runtime, it is about as good as the Convoy light in maintaining output.

The graph looks more dramatic than it is, it is zoomed in between 535 and 565 lumen to show the slope well.

djozz nice testing and graph as usual. I have an M 2 too and i like it very much, still don’t know how much lumens it is. its an U2 at 2.8A stock. I wanted to ask u just put the light and the light meter 1 m from the ceiling and what u read is actual lumen output?

That question has no straightforward answer that can be used to measure your flashlight. It assumes that my cheap chinese luxmeter is reading the same value as your (assumedly) cheap chinese luxmeter and that our ceilings have the same reflectivity. So that adds extra uncertainty to my numbers that are already an estimate.

I will give you the numbers at exactly 1 meter from my white ceiling, but to illustrate the uncertainty, I also did the same measurements pointing the luxmeter to my wall, also exactly 1 meter distance (thank you for making me do this, I was actually quite curious about what the difference would be). As I do normally, I kept the flashlight right next to the meter, with the top of the flashlight a few cm above the top of the sensor (to prevent direct light going to the sensor), aiming for the highest lux-reading.

My ceiling is a bit rough, and white latex-painted, the paint has been there for many years. My walls have been newly plastered 2 years ago, no coating, I don't smoke, and are as smooth as plaster can be.

ceiling bounce lux @ 1 meter wall bounce lux @ 1 meter

SWM D40A Turbo (~980 lm) 273 lux 306 lux

Convoy M2 reference light (~425 lm) 120 lux 138 lux

Ultrafire K10 reference light (~220 lm) 63 lux 72 lux

So the wall bounces more light than the ceiling, that can be because it is whiter, or smoother, or whatever. There may be one thing in favour of this attempt of transferring an already rough calibration by internet , I suspect that the internals of many if not all common cheap chinese luxmeters are exactly the same, at least the same detector, the same colour filter in front of it. But already the shape of the diffuser can make the detector react differently on light coming from an angle, making the beam-shape a factor involved.

I was just rereading your post and I think I now understand the question.

The answer is: no, a luxmeter used to measure light bounced off the ceiling does give you an indication of the output in lumens, but only compared to other lights. So you need a flashlight with known output (there's the need for a reference light) and do the same measurement, and calculate the output from there.

My main reference lights are some Phillips and Sylvania LED bulbs in MR16/PAR20/PAR38 sizes. I let them warm up and stabilize for around 1 hour before taking measurements. You don’t have to worry about battery droop with these bulbs. The readings that I get are within 1-2% of their bulblised specs.

But, newer bulbs of the same types seem to be producing up to 10% more than their published specs… looks like emitters are getting better, but they are not upgrading their specs for the bulbs.

Here in my country the latest Philips led bulbs have identical purple packages with the same specs, there is only an indirect hint somewhere on the packaging that it is either 87% or 90% energy saving, the 90% costs 1 euro more.

Awesome…

Great testing there, plenty of data collection

hmm, I think that for an known material with an known reflecting properties we can go somewhere, trying to replace an integrated sphere. for example if u have an known reference light and make an measurement in one known material like an white A4 paper at an known distance (like 1 meter) and share dhe coefficient we can use that in our flashlight all over the world :slight_smile:
to be more clear lets make again an excample, u have fenix tk75 and at one meter u get 800 lux and we know that tk 75 is 2400 lumen u get a coefficient of 3 in a A4 format(or maybe a litle biger superfice). evry other person which make the same measurement will get approximate result. also if I try to measure my flashlight I can easy use your coefficient , if I get lets say 400 lux from 1 meter distance from the white paper, only have to multiply with 3 ( the coefficient u obtain from the known flashlight) and get 1200 lumen from my flashlight.

Nice idea Djozz!

I have a small spread sheet with ceiling bounce lux numbers as well.

and its quite interesting to see that the older XML Sunwayman lights produce a lot less lux than their recent successors.

It`s nice to compare the lights, and see which ones are actually brighter, even they don`t always seem to differ that much by eye.

As I said, it is tricky with the cheap meters we use, but well, within 10-15% it should work. Above you find some numbers for white plaster, but I do not think copier paper is a good idea: it has too much direct reflection (too shiny, too far from a true 'lambertian reflector'), and it has optical whiteners in it that convert far blue light into cyan, so it is too sensitive for led-tint.

I see. still we need an standard material that can relatively easy be obtained by all people around the world. I have to think something about it.

white plaster is something, and again thank you for your data, I have not much time lately but will do some measurements and report back with the data. it looks like your white plaster have a coefficient that vary from 3.5 to 3.1 . the value of this is that now i can use this coefficient and measuring my M2 in my home and if i get let say 350 lux multiply this with 3.3 =1155 lumes for my M2 flashlight. so even that I don’t poses an reference light I can still get some numbers using your coefficient and assuming we have comparable white plasters in our homes.

after the result anyone with an integrated sphere and an M2 can confirm the results. I think it will be interesting experiment.

still if we find some white materials that can vary as little as possible in attributes will give us even more precise results.

You must realize they cater to companies not individuals, if you take it that way you will see the price is not that high (not that would be totally cheap that way either)

djozz, you do not really need 500Euro for a decent power supply. You can buy one really good made in Europe for 250Euro on Ebay, used but worth 700Euro . There are some power supplies for 1-2months sitting there and no one buys them, eventually the seller quits.

Thanks for the tip :-) , but I just bought one new (see 'whatyou got today'), a huge dent in my savings, it was almost 500 euro, so it is too late now for a second hand one. I know it can be bought cheaper, but it had to be robust, had to do 20A, and I wanted a lineair power supply rather than a switched mode one (is that the old-fashioned me or is a lineair power supply indeed more stable and longer-lasting?). I hope it is a good power supply, any ideas?

Oh I see you already got one. After 500 euros that's about it with power supplies, the specs look good, sense inputs. I personally really want at least 2 decimal places rather than one, even so we should not rely on the last digit on any device.

What I saw were 2 AIM-TTi power supplies. one for 200GBP and one for 250GBP. One of them was TSX3510 (10A) and the other one was 20A (can't remember which).

On my power supply I really like about it that I can get the 500.0mA range where I can also set 0.1mA and still have 3 decimal places voltage display. But now I really fell like 5A is too low and I should have like 10-20A available. Tell that to a regular electronics guy and he'll say, what you need more than 1A for?

djozz, maybe you can post a series of photos with the internal build of your linear power supply. It would be really interesting to see, especially for a German linear power supply

Ervin, I’m wondering about that 1155 lumen M2, must be built up quite nicely if that’s a true estimate of it’s output. What have you done to modify it?

Also, while the industry recognizes lux at 1 meter, the lights are almost never focused at that range. Standard practice is to measure at 5M and calculate. Some lights need even further distances to accurately allow focus, usually in a thrower. 1 meter distance is too close to measure, far too much glare from spill mixed in with the hot spot. And ceilings are typically coated with a texture to diffuse light, spread it, enabling a single ceiling fixture to better illuminate a room. Skewing results for this type of testing.

We look for absolutes, while purchasing budget equipment. Funny, isn’t it?

Hi, DBCstm
1155 lumen was just an example prior of me doing any measurements, sorry if i was not more clear but you know English is not my native language. In fact some years ago I start playing around in some phone forums and if the first objective was electronic discussion and passion about hi tech in general, the sec one was to try and learn English.
Said this, I find interesting playing around with this stuff, measuring, deducting experimenting and so on. That photo of your profile looks very interesting too, is that cooper right there where heat should flow? If yes, nice work!

Now some measurements: all are @ 1 meter from white ceiling (half plastic painting) both light meter and sensor

Well if I use djoz qoeficient I get too low values so I think:

1. The white paint in my ceiling is different material with different properties in reflecting and absorbing light. By how much? Well for this reason I test uf502b with xre in 500 mA. From what I understand I should get around 120~150 lumen best case scenario? Judging from this I took the coefficient 5 which gave me the acceptable 110 lumen in uf502b. and also more acceptable values generally. If white painting properties toward reflecting light differ so much I see is as a problem racording different readings across the web.
2. Lux meters that are cheap are not so accurate …? Hard to believe they are so badly calibrated IMHO.
3. The differences on the surfaces maybe play a role in readings.
4. I am making a mistake somewhere :stuck_out_tongue: