Cree XP-L, XM-L performance in an XP size package

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18sixfifty
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Tom E wrote:

18sixfifty – Are you gonna dedome to fit the optics, or maybe mod the optics? Maybe decide after in hand? I’m goin single for now. Definitely my T10, maybe a zoomie too – might be interesting… Should have ordered more than two.

 

I’m going to wait and see, but chances are I won’t be able to resist trying to de-dome them. :bigsmile:

I’ll let you know when they show up.

I’m a junky, I mod lights so I can sell lights so I can buy more light to mod so I can sell lights to buy more lights to mod.

DB Custom
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I have 2 of the V6 2D and 2 V6 2A on the way from Craig. Intend to use the 2D as is, try to de-dome the 2A. We’ll see. If the tint is good on the 2D I might put one in the new Nitecore HC90 that’s coming with em. We’ll see how that light fares with it’s stock emitter and what it may take to change it.

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Ejected Filament wrote:
Didnt someone successfully even if accidentally dedome as a result of heating the LED via high amps? IIRC, they said the colour did not shift and I was wondering if maybe that might translate to maintaining lumens too?

Maybe the ‘solution’/gasolene is the reason for all/much of the loses and colour shifts rather than dedoming perse?

I’m not too sure, heating up the emitter with a solder iron or by running it at high amps is still going to give you a tint shift after a dedome.

Slewflash 

Tom E
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Ejected Filament wrote:
Didnt someone successfully even if accidentally dedome as a result of heating the LED via high amps? IIRC, they said the colour did not shift and I was wondering if maybe that might translate to maintaining lumens too? Maybe the 'solution'/gasolene is the reason for all/much of the loses and colour shifts rather than dedoming perse?

Well actually heating is how many dedome - not everyone uses gas. XP-G2's I don't believe color shift as much as XM-L2's, so maybe that's why? I dedome using gas and vinh uses heat - I know our de-domed TN31's are very close to the same lumens, and I know his will color tint shift same way. Lot of speculation has gone around, but only known measured lights I've seen #'s on, or seen and measured myself seem to indicate same results.

CalvinIS
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DBCstm wrote:
I have 2 of the V6 2D and 2 V6 2A on the way from Craig. Intend to use the 2D as is, try to de-dome the 2A. We'll see. If the tint is good on the 2D I might put one in the new Nitecore HC90 that's coming with em. We'll see how that light fares with it's stock emitter and what it may take to change it.

Calvin*, Craig is my brother Silly

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DB Custom
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My apologies. Thanks for taking the time this afternoon, really appreciate it.

I’m thinking I’ll try some set-ups with the 2D and 2A, get some base output measurements and then maybe try a de-dome with the 2A and see what changes. If it’ll de-dome clean and not tint shift too much, I’ll try a triple in a 14500 sized light. A Buddy wants another chopped mini-mag, these would be a good candidate to ramp it up a bit. Smile If it acts like an XM-L instead of XP-G then a BLF17DD should allow higher amperage to the triple for bigger outputs, right?

So what do y’all think? Would/should the XP-L in a triple be similar to a triple XM-L? I have a triple XM-L with de-domed emitters, wondering if it should be comparable.

An AW IMR14500 gives over 7A to this triple XM-L set-up through the BLF17DD.

djozz
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I ordered two XP-L leds, can't even remember which of the tints. When they are in I can  do a amp/voltage/output test up to 7A, and when I'm at it I might as well do a dedome (I do that hot) and test it again. And since my vacation money is in (which really is for vacation, but I feel rich now Innocent), I might do a crash test on the other one.

(that leaves me none for flashlight modding Cry )

leaftye
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Just in. Carclo is working on designs for the XP-L.  They found out about it when we did.  

@Tom E, thanks for sharing your dedome numbers.

@djozz, thanks for taking another one for the team.  I can't wait to see the results.  

The low mode should be lower.

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deckart
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What would the xpl do in a sk 98 ?

djozz
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deckart wrote:
What would the xpl do in a sk 98 ?

Nothing much better than an xml2. The hotspot when zoomed in might look a bit funny.

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I’ve got a V5 2A on 16mm Noctigons, one domed and one in the gas. Thinking of using a Convoy C8 and running each through the paces, BLF17DD with a Samsung 20R, find out just what they do.

wight
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DBCstm wrote:
I’ve got a V5 2A on 16mm Noctigons, one domed and one in the gas. Thinking of using a Convoy C8 and running each through the paces, BLF17DD with a Samsung 20R, find out just what they do.
That’s what we pay you for isn’t it? Oh wait… Wink

Break’s over for now. That was a long one! wight catchup Wink Wink Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

djozz
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DBCstm wrote:
I've got a V5 2A on 16mm Noctigons, one domed and one in the gas. Thinking of using a Convoy C8 and running each through the paces, BLF17DD with a Samsung 20R, find out just what they do.

Nice, and I'm jealous, still haven't received them, for a my flashlight hobby it is not advantagous to live in the EU  Sad

DB Custom
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When the XM-L changed to XM-L2 we saw some differences in the face of the die. Here we go again. There seem to be dots arranged in a spiral pattern on the face of the die. Odd.

The XP-L V5 2A on a 16mm Noctigon in a Convoy C8 with BLF17DD and running an Efest 35A at 4.21V fresh off the charger shows 5.71A for 1252 OTF lumens at start, 1145 OTF at 30 seconds. I haven’t measured Vf, just put one together to see how it looks and acts. The tint here is nice, almost pure white actually. The hot spot anyway, the aura around the hot spot drops in intensity and is warmer. I don’t have any XP-G sized centering rings, so it’s in a standard butterfly centering ring and fiddled with when screwing the bezel down until I got it centered.

The beam profile is perfectly acceptable, I’d be willing to keep this light as is.

I tested the XM-L2 T6 3C on Ryans pill before I put this one in and with the cell at 4.15V it drew 5.93A for 1490 lumens and 1394 at 30. So, even the standard T6 is making more lumens.

I’ll be back to collect my check after I get some more things done, the other emitter should be ready to come out of the gas directly. Wink

DB Custom
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This is from about 15’, camera settings adjusted to show the hot spot.

And the other one de-domed clean in 1 1/2 hours, at 90º F.



DB Custom
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I put the de-domed XP-L in a SupFire F9, very close to being the same as a C8. This one, with a fresh 35A at 4.21V pulls 5.78A for 1363 OTF at start, 1301 at 30 seconds.

Here’s a side by side photo of the hot spot. Camera got the white balance odd, the de-domed looks about right but the domed one shows much more blue in this pic than the eye sees. Go figure.

leaftye
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That's disappointing, but it's still putting out more lumens than XP-G2, so it's still a win if you're okay with more flood.

The low mode should be lower.

Reviews: Efan IMR18350 700mAh 10.5A, <a href="http://

djozz
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Thanks for the pictures. That die does look very familiar. So the story sofar is that indeed it seems like an xml2 die on a smaller substrate, leading to a somewhat worse heatpath and a bit lower output?

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I’m sure you’ll be able to get more accurate and clear readings on em.

This is good news for the small triple crowd though. Considerably more lumens and higher current capability, doing a fair job of maintaining tint. If Carclo gets those TIR Triple Optics done I’d like to see these in the V5 2A bin. I have a couple of 2C as well, not sure I’ve got stars for em. Had to disassemble working lights to put these in, lol.

To my eyes the domed 2A looks nice in tint. The de-domed is considerably warmer, orangy yellow by comparison, but not green at all so that’s a big plus. There may be that bit of a blue or light lavendar to the 2A, it’s still pleasing in actual use. The de-domed tint is pretty nice, especially in the lower modes.

So, it’s not difficult to get em focused in a reflector, but you would do well to have some XP sized centering rings that I do not have.

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Thanks Dale!

Not as impressed as I hoped to be.

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I get the distinct impression that Cree designed these for arrays, making them easily capable of butting up against each other with the square sides. As such, they’d be awesome in that context. For us, there’s only a few instances they’d be of major gain…excellent in those places but not pre-empting the XM-L2 emitter for general use.

comfychair
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With more die area than substrate, imagine a single row of them a few feet long... 8)

leaftye
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comfychair wrote:

With more die area than substrate, imagine a single row of them a few feet long... 8)

Get these and we can start fighting the sun with photon wars.

The low mode should be lower.

Reviews: Efan IMR18350 700mAh 10.5A, <a href="http://

DB Custom
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How about if they were arranged like the mini-dies in an MT-G2…72 of em in a solid pattern…90,000+ lumens of awesomeness! The “die” base would be about 4” in circumference, oh yeah, that would be impressive. Build one Comfy! lol

comfychair
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In a single row, that's 87 LEDs per foot... 296 volts @ 3A, 888 watts...

DB Custom
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The actual die measures .15” square.

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It's bigger than XPG2's substrate?

DB Custom
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All I know is that my digital calipers say .15” measuring the square base.

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I measure XPG2 as .1365" side to side, .190" corner to corner. So, is this one using a bigger substrate just with the same XP pad layout on the bottom?

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I took a bit more care measuring and got .13” or 3.5mm. My caliper doesn’t go to the 4th digit.

Don’t know how much these can be trusted. El cheapo plastic ones from Harbor Freight.

I like the de-domed XP-L V5 2A enough to put it in my Sinner Ti, where it draws 5.71A from a Sony C5 at 4.21V for 1345 OTF.

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