Driver Info: HX-1175b & HX-1175B1 (Pic Heavy)

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ImA4Wheelr
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Driver Info: HX-1175b & HX-1175B1 (Pic Heavy)

This driver was originally used in the UF-T90 and the Lustfire 3U2.  There are some posts about it here and there.  I will attempt to link to them later today.  I modded one in this build.

O.D.: 32mm

Diameter of white line around parameter of components: 28mm

Stock Current in Highest Mode: 7 amps

Modes: 5 (L,M,H,Strobe,SOS)

Memory: Last Mode

Most of the pictures below are the HX-1175b1.  I purchased them from here.  I contacted the vendor ahead of time telling him that I only wanted the HX-1175b, not the "C".  He sent me HX-1175b1's.   They look even better than the "b" in that they have bigger sense resistors.  It appears to be virtually the same as the "b" model except for the large sense resistor bay.  It has 24 gauge silicone insulated wires.  The same vendor sells the in lots of 2 here directly from there web site.

Here are some macros to help anyone that wants to follow the traces.  The toroidal inductor, FET and large diode have been removed to aid in seeing the traces.

Here's one with out the MCU and buck controller.

The two pictures on the right below are of the HX-1175b that is in this Relic thread.  My T90 driver had 2 R068's which also equals .034 ohms.  Layout and components appear to be the same except for the larger Source Bank resistors.  The larger resistors is a great change because that is where most of the heat was generated.  There appears to be a small capacitor ( where I have a resistor labeled 303) next to a larger capacitor, but the circuit in the PCB appears to be the same.

Here is a image from RaceR86 of the HX-1175b (link to post in picture).

Edited by: ImA4Wheelr on 09/20/2015 - 23:14
wight
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Please add bottom pictures. Thanks Smile

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
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ImA4Wheelr
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Bottom picture in mouse over of first picture. I will separate later. Got to go for now.

Ouchyfoot
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I like this thread ImA4Wheelr.
I like these drivers. I have about seven of them. Could you show some pics with the resisters swapped in.
What was the output like wth the R100 resisters, but the stock FET?
What I would really like, is a picture with the FET swap. Does it need programming?

My main problem, is finding hosts that this driver fits in.
I put one in a 2 × 18650 FandyFire STL-V2 triple. It was too big to fit into factory driver placement area in the pill, but it fit inside the head like it was designed to go there. I just had to remove some anodizing where the outer ground ring on the driver sits.

RaceR86
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Sweet!

We needed this thread.

Great high output driver. I hope you or someone finds a recipe on how to customize the UI.

Been waiting 3 weeks since I ordered more of these from this Ebay seller. Still no info on the tracking number... Hopefully they get here, and hopefully they are "B" version. Ill report back.

The time before that I ordered from this aliexpress seller. Got some "C" drivers with bad performance. Avoid!

I noticed that the color of your driver in OP are blue. The one I got from my Lustefire 3xU2 were black. It also came with different resistors. 2xR062 (not 2xR068 like yours in OP). It might be smart to measure output on these instead of assuming something. Could be differences even on the "B" drivers.

I used HX-1175B in the ZY-T08 featured in this beamshot comparison. Driver needed a good amount of trimming on the edge to fit in the stock pill. I also lowered lowered output from what I believe was around 7,5A to 6,4A in order to be a bit more "gentle" to my precious  de-domed emitter ( best de-domed tint I have seen used in that light). Cant remember resistor values.

Good room for this driver in Fenix TK61. Although its obviously not plug and play.

BLF LED database – collaboration spreadsheet and latest news about where to buy LEDs
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/19342

wight
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ImA4Wheelr wrote:
Bottom picture in mouse over of first picture. I will separate later. Got to go for now.
Thanks, that’s what I needed.
  • None of the pictures allow me to see clearly how the ON Semiconductor FET is connected. Can someone take a picture with the FET removed or describe accurately what what the 3 connections are (2 pins and body)?
  • Does anyone have a driver where the small 6-leg IC is not sanded? I would like to know the markings.

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
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ImA4Wheelr
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Ouchyfoot:
No pictures, but I will be repeating the procedure and will take pictures. The FET swap didn’t increase current. I did it because Relic reported that the FET’s get hot and he even attached heat sinks to his. Makes sense as these FET have more resistance. Comfychair’s FET’s don’t get hot. So less heat to deal with and less wasted electricity. Here is a pic of Relic’s heat sinking mod from “this thread”.

EDIT: I don’t remember what current went up to with one R10. I will check to see if I have any notes on that. Probably half way from 7 amps (stock) and 11 amps with 2 R10’s.

RaceR86:
Your cautions about assuming are good. I say I haven’t tested in the OP, but I appreciate the reinforement of the message. Thank you friend.

The blue version above is a HX-1175b1. Seems identical circuit wise base on memory.

It would be very easy to cut in a PWM feed from another MCU. I will do a picture with a mark to show were and test it out tonight, maybe.

Wight:
I will see what I can do tonight about helping on that. It is very hard to tell even with the driver under magnification. I plan on swapping out the FET’s, so I will take pictures then.

I would love if you built a DIY version of this driver. Would love to have custom MCU on something like this.

wight
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Thanks ImA4Wheelr. We’ll see about DIY versions. The specs look pretty similar to the new-version DRY driver. From what I can tell they are using different buck driver ICs though. This thing is interesting to me from two perspectives; either it’s another implementation of the

Oh. I just realized that the ON Semiconductor 35CLG (big TO252 package) is not an FET. It’s just a big 10A schottky diode. duh. Therefore this circuit is definitely not a synchronous buck circuit. That explains why the connections looked weird, but it also makes this driver way less interesting – it’s probably no more capable than the QX5241 based ones. This is just scaled up with a big inductor and big Schottkey diode. Sad

What I’m really looking for is an inexpensive high-power synchronous buck driver IC that’s suitable for drivers like this. That type of buck requires two FETs, but some non-synchronous drivers use two FETs as well. A synchronous buck setup can improve efficiency.

Out of curiosity, what would be your goals with a replacement PCB for this driver?

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
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ImA4Wheelr
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A more efficient driver sounds better as long as it can handle high current well. This guy (The “b”, not the “b1”) is driving a MT-G2 at at least 11.3 amps and not complaining. I don’t know the limit yet on it. I haven’t tested the “b1” version yet, but it looks promising.

I want a custom PCB because this driver may have already been discontinued and because I’d would like a MCU that I can program and flash. I’m going to learn how to program PIC’s, but most folks here like the Attiny13a. I will be piggy backing a Attiny13a on to my drivers in the mean time.

ImA4Wheelr
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That’s interesting. I didn’t notice that was a diode either. When I swapped out the FET’s on my “b”, I think that one had the label ground off. If I remember correctly, I thought it was odd that they ground off one, but not the other. I replaced both units with 07N02 FET’s. It works great that way.

I believe I still have the old components. I will check them out to night and report back on that.

EDIT: I also have 4 more of these “b1”‘s, I will check to see if they also have diodes in that spot.

ImA4Wheelr
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Does that 35CLG diode make sense? It’s supposed to let current flow from either Small Leg to the Big Tab. It appears that both Small Legs are connected to Bat+ and the Toroidal Inductor that flows Bat+ to the L+ Pad. The Big Tab to the Drain for the 06N03 FET. The Drain for the 06N03 FET would be flowing Negative.

So wouldn’t it basically short positive to negative?

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but I have no formal electronics training.

wight
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ImA4Wheelr wrote:
Does that 35CLG diode make sense? It’s supposed to let current flow from either Small Leg to the Big Tab. It appears that both Small Legs are connected to Bat+ and the Toroidal Inductor that flows Bat+ to the L+ Pad. The Big Tab to the Drain for the 06N03 FET. The Drain for the 06N03 FET would be flowing Negative.

So wouldn’t it basically short positive to negative?

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but I have no formal electronics training.


At a glance it looks fine to me. I think you have gotten confused though. The small legs are connected to LED-. The big tab is connected to BAT+ and the torroid. So when you apply power and leave the FET switched “off”, no electricity will flow across the diode.

My grasp of this stuff is not good enough for me to explain the role of the diode in this circuit, but it is properly connected. I believe this diode is sometimes called a freewheeling diode and it allows the inductor to discharge it’s energy while the FET is switched off. When you look at the sawtooth graph of a buck converter, the period where the inductor discharges and the diode comes into play is the downward part of the sawtooth. Here is what I consider a very explicit diagram of a nonsynchronous buck converter. See Figure 1. I have not read the article.

I’m afraid that your replacement of the diode with an FET is doing something bad. I can’t quite figure out how the circuit is working without failure right now, but I suspect that it’s hard on one of these 3 things:

  • the FET that replaced the diode
  • the real FET (if the energy from the toroid isn’t being allowed to flow through the normal path then the FET is probably being stressed)
  • the LED (the MT-G2 can take some real punishment as I understand it. Maybe it’s taking a beating from the modded driver and continuing to operate)

I’d definitely put that diode back where I got it. Maybe another member can chime in on why the circuit works at all after the mod.

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

ImA4Wheelr
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Thank you wight. You’re right. I switched the big tab and the small legs in my head. I will check out the circuits on my original “b” and the new “b1” drivers and report back. Sounds like you may have identified a problem I didn’t realize I had or the circuit on the original “b” driver is different (or this circuit is not totally known to us yet and the diode is supposed to be a FET).

So unless there is a surprise under the diode, it looks like we have a flashlight driver that can handle high currents (a rare and good thing), but not as efficient a design as what you are seeking.

Thank you very much for your time on this wight.

Ouchyfoot
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Boy! You guys can really confuse “us” simple folk.

Tom E
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Hhmm - give me a few more applications I can use this driver. Though I hate the classic Chinese 5 mode, the power seems awesome!

It will work for a single MT-G2, single XM-L2 I assume, from 1 to 6 cells, 2 min, for an MT-G2 I suppose? What other lights? I'll have to check my multi-cell, rear switch throwers to see if this driver will fit.

wight
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Tom E – I think the problem is being able to purchase it! It seems that people are often sent something other than this driver when they attempt to order.

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
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Tom E
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Hhmm - I thought this link in the OP: ebay.com/itm/5pcs-5-modes-Led-Driver-Input-3V-18V-7A for qty 5 were for the b1's -- yes, ImA4Wheelr did confirm with the seller first, but those b1's look good so far. Right? $50 is a fairly big risk of course, but of course I've lost that much on a gamble before with drivers... If I were to order 5, I'd like to use like 2-3 off the bat, or give/sell at cost, etc., and check with the seller first like he did.

ImA4Wheelr
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It looks good to me Tom, but I'm just a hack.  I think he sells individual drivers too.

Here is what I did tonight.  Removed the large diode and FET and compared the traces between the "b1's" and the "b".  Every trace I can see looks identical.  I tried to take photos of the "b", but the black pcb reveals very little in photos.  I did get some good photos of the "b1" which I put in the beginning of the OP at full size.  The toroidal inductors look identical too.  Only difference I see is the FET's Source Pin resistor bay allows for much larger sized resistors, but underlying trace for both looks the same.  I did not compare components though.  I will try to do that tomorrow as it's late.  As pointed out in the OP, I do see at resistor where there is a small capacitor on the "b".

Here are the 2 components I thought were FET's that I pulled off the "b".  I can't tell if the one with the label ground off is a diode, but I think it is based on wight's analysis above.

Went ahead and swapped the FET to a 07N02 (Comfychair) FET and added 2 R10 resistors.  Go 11.5amps in high mode and 5.x amps in Medium mode.  There was no Low or SOS mode.  Ran for a about 1 minute on high.  Driver got pretty warm, but is was in free air and isn't pressed into a large brass ring like the T90 driver.

I'm sure I missed something, but I have to call it a night.

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This driver with an attiny13a piggybacked would be pretty cool.  

Wight, I've been searching for a long time for a good PWM dimmable synchronous buck IC...haven't found one yet that fits the bill.  I have had a few ideas about converting some other board designs but as always time is an issue.  

Mountain Electronics : batteries, Noctigon, and much more! What's new? 

ImA4Wheelr
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I'm thinking the large diode is going to be the weak link for very high currents.  Last night after reinstalling it, heat was generated in that part of the driver (Running at 11.5 amps with 3S King Kongs).  It will probably be fine if heat sinked, but it is only rated for 10 amps.  I may piggy back another low voltage drop out diode on top of it for the time being.  Anyone have a high current diode recommendations?

ImA4Wheelr
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The I just found out this vendor sells this driver directly from their website too.

http://www.topledlight.com/led-driver-input-3v18v-for-phlatlight-luminus...

wight
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What is the overall diameter of the toroid used on this driver?

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
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ImA4Wheelr
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Best guess is about 1 inch.  I will measure tonight.

wight
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ImA4Wheelr wrote:

Best guess is about 1 inch.  I will measure tonight.


Thanks. I’m sure you realize this, but what I’m really looking for is the smallest diameter tube the toroid will fit into. So anything that can be sqeezed in doesn’t count, but measuring the shortest side also doesn’t help.

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ImA4Wheelr
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Diameter ranges .805" to .825" on the sample I measured.  They're make of the typical copper wire around a rubber doughnut.  So it's slightly compressible if needed.  Don't forget to for the LED wires and a rubber/Kapton tape barrier (if you are like me and don't totally trust the enamel coating).  Just in case, but I'm thinking you already have all that covered.

wight
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Thanks! I figure if worst comes to worst the LED wires can go through the middle of the toroid. Are you sure the doughnut is rubber & not ferrite ?

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
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ImA4Wheelr
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OK, I'm even more of a dufus than I thought.  It must be some kind of ceramic coated/impregnated ferrite material.  Magnet definitely grabs it.  I take it that is needed for a magnetic field?.  For some reason it felt squeezable.  Guess it was just he copper wire giving way.  Sorry for the mis information and thank you for catching that.

Going to crawl under a rock now.

wight
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Heheh. I’m sure I thought they were made of something else for years, the colors are misleading. Big Smile

So yeah, frankly I do not have a handle on exactly what the core does, but it is there for it’s magnetic properties. It is my understanding that this is the part that ‘saturates’ under certain circumstances in our buck drivers, this causes unhealthy voltage/current spikes or maybe DD.

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
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ImA4Wheelr
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OK, want to splice in a Attiny13a tonight.  With the meter, I get a 123Hz at the FET gate and as the top pin closest to the circle/divit on the MCU.  Does it make sense that that particular pin is connected to ground via a 30,000K resistor?

Another question.  I would prefer to pull the stock MCU off the board.  I don't mind if I lose voltage monitoring (if it even has that).  I don't think that should interfer with the bucking function.  Anyone feel differently?

ImA4Wheelr
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Here are my voltage readings (with 2S King Kongs).  Pin 1 is at divot and then they count down the side and then over to the other side and then up (so clockwise).

1  -0-        10   .618V

2  4.86V     9   4.86V

3  -0-         8   4.85V

4  4.86V     7   4.86/4.87V

5  -0-          6  -0-

EDIT:  Corrected pin readings. 

So pin 10 can be used for voltage monitoring, if desired.  I plan on pulling the MCU, and wiring an Attiny13a to pins the HX-1175b pads 8 (+ in), 3 (Grd), and 1 (PWM).

wight
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I’m having trouble figuring out exactly what’s going on.

I guess I’d just remove the MCU and then probe with the DMM to find out which pad is VCC for the MCU. Once I found that, I’d pull Pin1 high and low. If I can turn the buck circuit on and off that way then I’m good to go. Pin1 certainly looks like the PWM pin.

EDIT: As far as I can tell, neither Atmel nor Microchip have an 8-bit MCU with 10 pins.

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

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