Review: MaxToch Mission M12

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giorgoskok
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robo819 wrote:
The lastest 2X was designed in 2016 (the one I did the GB on) … they stopped production because of some crumby drivers the company they were dealing with was turning out…. They went to a different company now for drivers from what I understand and the 2X should be back up on the Aliexpress (Maxtoch) site soon.

Good to know , thanks Wink I thought it was a totally new version .

The Miller
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Heheh despite progress the GT will take a while, too long for I want a thrower yesterday Big Smile

Tom E
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Finally got movement on tracking for the new M12 from BG. In NY last night, moving this morn, maybe couple days now...

Now if only the Eagle Eye X9 from AliExpress will start moving... 

Amanda - again, we've has these discussions before on pricing, but this is a pretty close competitor to the M12 XHP70 for us typical buyers, not law enforcement.

 

E.E. X9:            $61 shipped here

 

M12 XHP70:     $100 shipped here

 

Same:

  • SS bezel
  • exc. AR coated lens
  • type III hard anodizing (EE says "premium type", Maxtoch says Mil-Spec type)
  • LVP indicator on switch
  • maybe approx. same output (need to verify, EE claimes higher at 3800 lumens)
  • full length equal
  • lockout feature

M12 + Features:

  • dual switch input - added dedicated switch for strobes
  • larger head diameter (66 vs 63 mm)
  • lighter: 334g vs. 350g, if listed accurately
  • tripod mount

So it's $39 more for the M12, 64% higher price. It's a big markup for two lights that are very close in specs, features and quality. Granted if the prices were in the same ballpark, I'd buy the Maxtoch because of the features and higher quality, but would I pay $39 more or 64% higher to have those features? It's a tough buying decision for many. Personally I'd go to $75 maybe $80, but $100, sorry but no.

I do believe your type III ano is superior to the Convoy or Eagle Eye ano, it's just that it's hard to test and prove, and for selling it, it all sounds exactly 100% the same.

So before you shoot down the group buy deal or deals, think about the market you're up against.

 

 

 

 

Tom E
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Wait.. Am I goin bonkers? The XPL HD and HI models are list at $75 now on the Maxtoch Ali store: aliexpress.com/MAXTOCH-Mission-M12- XPL HD

Were they this cheap before? If so, didn't realize. Banggood's prices are higher. The M12 XPH70 is listed at $80, which is pretty darn good now.

Did they listen or was I totally ignorant? Maybe a bit of each? smile

 

 

Tom E
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I got the XPL HD version in today. I have to say I have a different impression - it's gorgeous! Way improved design over the old one, and I'm comparing them side by side, one in each hand.

What I like:

  • crazy stock power in lumens: 1,282 @30 secs on one cell (LK) and 3.44A tail on clamp DMM, 1,550 @30 secs on 2 cells (EVVA protected) and 2.55A tail on clamp DMM
  • shorter overall length than the old M12 (thanks to the e-switches), more stable tailstanding with 3 points rather than 2
  • nicely done SS bezel
  • I like the finish and grip - feels grippier than the old M12, and the etchings look fine to me
  • switch UI is fine with me. Really like the feel of the metal SS switches - nothing cheap here
  • the head feels like one mass of metal. Didn't put it on the scale but you can feel it and see it. They must have added weight to better balance it with two cells, because it does balance very well with the extension.
  • really like the added tripod mount. Can be used for other accessories as well.

What is so-so or don't like:

  • throw is under-performing from the specs. I measured 101 kcd at 5m (636m) on one cell, 128 kcd at 5m (716m) on two cells. Close as I could measure the I.D. is the same as the old M12, though the head is measured wider. These are still decent throw #'s for a 63-66 mm class head diameter light. Since I measured throw at 5 meters, you may get 5% or possible as high as 10% improvement outdoors at 10+ meters.
  • the SS bezel is deep, deeper than the old M12 or Manker U21 for example. Not sure if there's an impact, but usually there is - loss of lumens or maybe it effected the throw, not sure.

Just a word about the ano type III finish. I got a U21 in for upgrade/repair and it's finish was pretty beat up - scratches show raw shiny aliuminum, etc. With these Maxtochs, the ano embeds deeper into the metal, hardens the metal so it's harder to scratch and show. The Manker though has the look of better quality, but if you compare smooth surfaces, the M12 is definitely grippier, though is shinier.

robo819
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Thanks for your input Tom. It sounds from the one you got to be a fairly nice light.

Click any link to see MY REVIEWS:

Maxtoch M24 Sniper / Maxtoch 2X Shooter (2016 factory dedomed) , 2X - XHP 70.2 / *** ### ThruNite // Archer 2A V3 / Ti4T / TN4A HI / TH10 / TH20 / C2 Mini / TC12 V2 / T01 / MCC-4S , neutron 2C V3 , TC20 / Catapult V6 / *** ###  Olight // H2R Nova , S10R III / S30R III / H1 Nova / H1 R Nova / X7 Marauder , PL Mini ,  M2R warrior //// Orca T11 / Nitecore EC20 / BLF A6 / Custom Convoy C8 / Lixada Triple 3800LM / Lixada 1000LM / LuxStone X30 / Manker E02 / Manker E14 II / Small Sun ZY-T43 / Warsun X60  //////// ### Thorfire /// PF03PF04 , Upgraded PF04 , C8 , S-50 ,  VG-10 , VG25 , C8s , BL30 , TK4A  , S1 , VG15 S  , TK 18 //// Atactical (Wowtac) // A1S , A1 (original) , A2 headlamp , A3 //// Acebeam L16 /// Massdrop (Lumintop) Brass EDC

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Tom E wrote:

Wait.. Am I goin bonkers? The XPL HD and HI models are list at $75 now on the Maxtoch Ali store: aliexpress.com/MAXTOCH-Mission-M12- XPL HD


Were they this cheap before? If so, didn’t realize. Banggood’s prices are higher. The M12 XPH70 is listed at $80, which is pretty darn good now.


Did they listen or was I totally ignorant? Maybe a bit of each? smile


 


 


The price of M12 HI and HD are always usd75.00/pc. There are four options of different accessory combinations. usd98.00 includes 2 batteries and charger… Innocent
ARsee
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Any chance these will be coming on sale anytime soon?

Maxtoch M24 Sniper | Max Output 1350 Lumens | Max Beam Distance 1100m |
XM-L2 U3 LED | 2x 18650

Maxtoch Shooter 2x | Max Output 1450 Lumens | Max Beam Distance 1200m
XM-L2 U4 LED | Focused Beam | 2x 18650

Tom E
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Of course I couldn't leave it alone. There were obvious candidates for a resistor mod on the driver. The driver is pretty nicely done - thermal pads, thermal epoxy, thick board, sweetest retainer ring I've seen in a while - heavy, large brass.

I could not tell what the limiting resistors are, but there are two large ones in parallel labeled R1. Tried measuring resistance over it, think possible it measured 0.1 ohms, but not sure. So figured I'd try an R100, as shown below:

Well on 2 cells, it sure made a hugh difference!

On 2 protected KP's at ~4.0V, the tail amps on a clamp DMM showed 4.45A, and lumens:

2,050 @start, 1,940 @30 secs

throw: 158 kcd taken at 5m (795 meters)

 

That's a big bump. In amps it went from 2.55A to 4.45A. It might be a little beyond the peak of the XPL, depending on how much amps is really getting to the LED. 7A to 8A is about peak.

On one cell, it bumped it up but not much. Tial amps went from 3.44A to 3.85A on a LK cell, lumens:

1,350 @start, 1,323 @30 secs

I'm thinking bypassing the springs should help in the single cell configuration, and probably make no difference with 2 cells, where it's well buck regulated.

T18
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That is interesting Tom, found out that most issues I’m having with this driver only happen while running it with 2 cells, running it with a single cell the tactical turbo will finally stay on as long as I hold the switch, sounds similar to our German friends issues and who’s replacing the driver, I think it was the two cells he was saying gave him problems also. Amanda said they are having driver issues but wouldn’t say what exactly so that’s not much help really.. ha ha

Tom E
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Ok, with two cells, now I'm seeing some flaky behavior, maybe exactly or similar to T18's. The tactical/momentary does shut itself off shortly, other odd behaviors. Mainly the big issue is the flashing red LED that indicates low battery when in fact the batteries are close to fully charged. I'm thinking the false hit on LVP is the cause of all these problems. I can see the output kick down by itself, and the red flashing going from slow flashes to fast flashes, which means the output will be cut down or cut off altogether.

However since I have my light aggressively resistor modded, I can't be sure my problems are related to the mod or not. I'm willing to take the risk, since my long term plan is to replace the driver with a custom one anyway.

Since T18 is describing something similar to what mine does, and he's referencing other unknown owners (German friends?), and said Amanda admits there's a driver problem, I would not recommend this XPL (HD or HI) version of the light until we can find out more

I would like to know if T18, or anyone else is seeing the blinking red LED around the switch when the cells are not low - if so, then I would feel more confident it's the same problem, and not related to my resistor mod.

I would like to see Amanda respond to this issue directly though, or directly quoted.

 

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Is it possible to do a resistor mod on Maxtoch Shooter 2x XM-L2 U4 LED also?

robo819
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Sledgestone wrote:
Is it possible to do a resistor mod on Maxtoch Shooter 2x XM-L2 U4 LED also?

It is possible yes…….I would advise that you don’t though unless you are going to put a different emitter in the light.
The reason I say this is that the 2X with the U4 1A is performing at about the best it can the way it is from the factory and the U4 emitters will start frying at just above 5 amps from all I have seen on them. The driver is already making about 4.5 amps as it is so any increase will be putting it at the threshold of what it can handle.

Click any link to see MY REVIEWS:

Maxtoch M24 Sniper / Maxtoch 2X Shooter (2016 factory dedomed) , 2X - XHP 70.2 / *** ### ThruNite // Archer 2A V3 / Ti4T / TN4A HI / TH10 / TH20 / C2 Mini / TC12 V2 / T01 / MCC-4S , neutron 2C V3 , TC20 / Catapult V6 / *** ###  Olight // H2R Nova , S10R III / S30R III / H1 Nova / H1 R Nova / X7 Marauder , PL Mini ,  M2R warrior //// Orca T11 / Nitecore EC20 / BLF A6 / Custom Convoy C8 / Lixada Triple 3800LM / Lixada 1000LM / LuxStone X30 / Manker E02 / Manker E14 II / Small Sun ZY-T43 / Warsun X60  //////// ### Thorfire /// PF03PF04 , Upgraded PF04 , C8 , S-50 ,  VG-10 , VG25 , C8s , BL30 , TK4A  , S1 , VG15 S  , TK 18 //// Atactical (Wowtac) // A1S , A1 (original) , A2 headlamp , A3 //// Acebeam L16 /// Massdrop (Lumintop) Brass EDC

Tom E
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Sledgestone wrote:
Is it possible to do a resistor mod on Maxtoch Shooter 2x XM-L2 U4 LED also?

I have the old, maybe original 2X and resistor modded it wayyy back. Also did one for jmpaul320 back then. Most likely the new ones could be resistor modded the same way. They will get hot though, and not sure if the Maxtoch's have any timed or temperature step down.

Ohhh - just saw robo's post - true, the original ones were probably U2's so could take more amps. I've blown dedomed U4's before. XPL's would do much better as well. Didn't measure it, but I'm thinking mine is getting 7.5 - 8.5A to the LED.

ARsee
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Tom, you and T18 have got me wondering now.

I just ordered a Sniper M24 yesterday. 

Do they have these symptoms or known issues?

 

Oh joy. Both the wife and I are home with an intestinal bug of some sort.

Tom E
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ARsee wrote:

Tom, you and T18 have got me wondering now.

I just ordered a Sniper M24 yesterday. 

Do they have these symptoms or known issues?

 

Oh joy. Both the wife and I are home with an intestinal bug of some sort.

Very doubtful. The M12 is new territory for Maxtoch - e-switch drivers are quite different, probably a different design, different firmware.

I wanted the M12 only because of the e-switches, so I can get ramping Narsil in it. Will try to go with a XHP50.2 if I can fit it with a centering piece.

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The M24’s have been pretty much problem free with the new design.

Click any link to see MY REVIEWS:

Maxtoch M24 Sniper / Maxtoch 2X Shooter (2016 factory dedomed) , 2X - XHP 70.2 / *** ### ThruNite // Archer 2A V3 / Ti4T / TN4A HI / TH10 / TH20 / C2 Mini / TC12 V2 / T01 / MCC-4S , neutron 2C V3 , TC20 / Catapult V6 / *** ###  Olight // H2R Nova , S10R III / S30R III / H1 Nova / H1 R Nova / X7 Marauder , PL Mini ,  M2R warrior //// Orca T11 / Nitecore EC20 / BLF A6 / Custom Convoy C8 / Lixada Triple 3800LM / Lixada 1000LM / LuxStone X30 / Manker E02 / Manker E14 II / Small Sun ZY-T43 / Warsun X60  //////// ### Thorfire /// PF03PF04 , Upgraded PF04 , C8 , S-50 ,  VG-10 , VG25 , C8s , BL30 , TK4A  , S1 , VG15 S  , TK 18 //// Atactical (Wowtac) // A1S , A1 (original) , A2 headlamp , A3 //// Acebeam L16 /// Massdrop (Lumintop) Brass EDC

ARsee
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I researched the M24 and 2x Shooter quite a lot and did not find any recent (last 6 months) issues.

It seem, you, T18, and robo are the main users of Maxtoch here on the forum that I've seen most. So figured to ask.

Did not mean to get headed off topic!

robo819
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There are a number of people in the forum who have had a good many dealings with Maxtoch over time actually , TomE has in the past and recently also and he is also well informed with the Maxtoch brand.

I am not affiliated with them as far as any kind of pay or monetary reimbursement though as it may seem I might be at times……lol

I have just always really liked their products and feel they make some very good quality lights and they always stand behind their product. One of the few that really listen to what is said in the forum and try to work with us as much as they can.

Click any link to see MY REVIEWS:

Maxtoch M24 Sniper / Maxtoch 2X Shooter (2016 factory dedomed) , 2X - XHP 70.2 / *** ### ThruNite // Archer 2A V3 / Ti4T / TN4A HI / TH10 / TH20 / C2 Mini / TC12 V2 / T01 / MCC-4S , neutron 2C V3 , TC20 / Catapult V6 / *** ###  Olight // H2R Nova , S10R III / S30R III / H1 Nova / H1 R Nova / X7 Marauder , PL Mini ,  M2R warrior //// Orca T11 / Nitecore EC20 / BLF A6 / Custom Convoy C8 / Lixada Triple 3800LM / Lixada 1000LM / LuxStone X30 / Manker E02 / Manker E14 II / Small Sun ZY-T43 / Warsun X60  //////// ### Thorfire /// PF03PF04 , Upgraded PF04 , C8 , S-50 ,  VG-10 , VG25 , C8s , BL30 , TK4A  , S1 , VG15 S  , TK 18 //// Atactical (Wowtac) // A1S , A1 (original) , A2 headlamp , A3 //// Acebeam L16 /// Massdrop (Lumintop) Brass EDC

Tom E
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Have you heard anything much more bout the M12 issues? She had 2 posts here, but otherwise hasn't been active for 11 months.

I'll try pm'ing her, but understand there's the May Day Chinese holiday from 4/29 to May 1st.

robo819
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Tom E wrote:

Have you heard anything much more bout the M12 issues? She had 2 posts here, but otherwise hasn’t been active for 11 months.


I’ll try pm’ing her, but understand there’s the May Day Chinese holiday from 4/29 to May 1st.

I have actually sent her an email about the driver on the M12 to see if she has any news about it already Tom.

EDIT: forgot about the holiday…………

Click any link to see MY REVIEWS:

Maxtoch M24 Sniper / Maxtoch 2X Shooter (2016 factory dedomed) , 2X - XHP 70.2 / *** ### ThruNite // Archer 2A V3 / Ti4T / TN4A HI / TH10 / TH20 / C2 Mini / TC12 V2 / T01 / MCC-4S , neutron 2C V3 , TC20 / Catapult V6 / *** ###  Olight // H2R Nova , S10R III / S30R III / H1 Nova / H1 R Nova / X7 Marauder , PL Mini ,  M2R warrior //// Orca T11 / Nitecore EC20 / BLF A6 / Custom Convoy C8 / Lixada Triple 3800LM / Lixada 1000LM / LuxStone X30 / Manker E02 / Manker E14 II / Small Sun ZY-T43 / Warsun X60  //////// ### Thorfire /// PF03PF04 , Upgraded PF04 , C8 , S-50 ,  VG-10 , VG25 , C8s , BL30 , TK4A  , S1 , VG15 S  , TK 18 //// Atactical (Wowtac) // A1S , A1 (original) , A2 headlamp , A3 //// Acebeam L16 /// Massdrop (Lumintop) Brass EDC

Tom E
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Ohh - ok, shoot - just pm'ed her. Well we got her covered by email and pm then smile

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I am sure she will get back to one , or both of us ASAP then.

Click any link to see MY REVIEWS:

Maxtoch M24 Sniper / Maxtoch 2X Shooter (2016 factory dedomed) , 2X - XHP 70.2 / *** ### ThruNite // Archer 2A V3 / Ti4T / TN4A HI / TH10 / TH20 / C2 Mini / TC12 V2 / T01 / MCC-4S , neutron 2C V3 , TC20 / Catapult V6 / *** ###  Olight // H2R Nova , S10R III / S30R III / H1 Nova / H1 R Nova / X7 Marauder , PL Mini ,  M2R warrior //// Orca T11 / Nitecore EC20 / BLF A6 / Custom Convoy C8 / Lixada Triple 3800LM / Lixada 1000LM / LuxStone X30 / Manker E02 / Manker E14 II / Small Sun ZY-T43 / Warsun X60  //////// ### Thorfire /// PF03PF04 , Upgraded PF04 , C8 , S-50 ,  VG-10 , VG25 , C8s , BL30 , TK4A  , S1 , VG15 S  , TK 18 //// Atactical (Wowtac) // A1S , A1 (original) , A2 headlamp , A3 //// Acebeam L16 /// Massdrop (Lumintop) Brass EDC

robo819
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Tom E wrote:

Sledgestone wrote:
Is it possible to do a resistor mod on Maxtoch Shooter 2x XM-L2 U4 LED also?

I have the old, maybe original 2X and resistor modded it wayyy back. Also did one for jmpaul320 back then. Most likely the new ones could be resistor modded the same way. They will get hot though, and not sure if the Maxtoch’s have any timed or temperature step down.


Ohhh – just saw robo’s post – true, the original ones were probably U2’s so could take more amps. I’ve blown dedomed U4’s before. XPL’s would do much better as well. Didn’t measure it, but I’m thinking mine is getting 7.5 – 8.5A to the LED.

The main reason the XM-L2 U4 1A was chosen for the newer 2X was that we tried the XP-L HI in it first. It took 6 amps to get almost identical K Lux from the Hi emitter as the U4 1A was doing at 4.5 amps.

It just made sense at that time to go with the emitter that was running much more efficiently with same output and get the run times on up as much as possible , especially since the 2X was being targeted at the hunting community mainly and the longer run times were preferred , so they didn’t have to worry about battery changes as often in the field.

Click any link to see MY REVIEWS:

Maxtoch M24 Sniper / Maxtoch 2X Shooter (2016 factory dedomed) , 2X - XHP 70.2 / *** ### ThruNite // Archer 2A V3 / Ti4T / TN4A HI / TH10 / TH20 / C2 Mini / TC12 V2 / T01 / MCC-4S , neutron 2C V3 , TC20 / Catapult V6 / *** ###  Olight // H2R Nova , S10R III / S30R III / H1 Nova / H1 R Nova / X7 Marauder , PL Mini ,  M2R warrior //// Orca T11 / Nitecore EC20 / BLF A6 / Custom Convoy C8 / Lixada Triple 3800LM / Lixada 1000LM / LuxStone X30 / Manker E02 / Manker E14 II / Small Sun ZY-T43 / Warsun X60  //////// ### Thorfire /// PF03PF04 , Upgraded PF04 , C8 , S-50 ,  VG-10 , VG25 , C8s , BL30 , TK4A  , S1 , VG15 S  , TK 18 //// Atactical (Wowtac) // A1S , A1 (original) , A2 headlamp , A3 //// Acebeam L16 /// Massdrop (Lumintop) Brass EDC

Tom E
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Oh yea, totally agree - that would be expected. But... dedome a V6 binned XPL HD, and you got something decent there. Find a W2 bin, even better. Not all XPL HD's dedome easy though. I think the U4's dedome fairly easy from what I recall. To me right now, the XPL HD dedoming is the best choice out there - super high amps can be achieved, on a V6 or W2 bin, outstanding results.

Of course XP-G2's  are another option, specially with a nice high amp buck driver (ideal for dedomed XP-G2's btw) but not everyone cares for the small tight beam and lower lumens.

For Maxtoch though, if they want to stay under 5A, the dedomed U4 still is the best option. According to the CREE datasheets, a XM-L2 U4 is about equal to a XPL W2 bin, so if you are using XPL V5 or V6, it's not as good. a V6 is about equal to a U3.

 

There are ways now guys are finding to dedome XPL's with not much loss of lumens or the nasty tint shift. I'm not sure I understand the how of it. Mitko has described/listed the chemicals he uses, but they aren't available in most countries/states. I'm experimenting with racing fuel now - still need to test results. It does not make dedoming XPL's any easier though, least so far, from traditional gas from the pump.

jacc
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Hi guys

Since the topic has quiet down, I would like to share my predicament with Maxtoch M12 XPL HI version. The first day I received this flashlight, I noticed bad coronas around the hotspot. Upon closer examination, I can see that the entire bottom part of the reflector, around 2 to 3 cm is littered with some sort of film deposition.

Pictures shown below:

“Open image in new tab to enlarge”

Video:

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I tried washing it off using water but to my dismay I created some fine lines even when I didnt use any medium to clean it other than my fingers.

Long story short, Amanda refused to replace the reflector for me, pushed the blame to banggood (still bitter over banggood slight discount I guess) and when banggood tried to help me (super helpful people there, two thumbs up for them for now) they said the manufacturer refused to send a replacement, citing no availability of spare parts.

What say you guys? Maxtoch quality? Maxtoch customer service? Seriously, Amanda. Facepalm

Tom E
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Last seen: 2 days 11 hours ago
Joined: 08/19/2012 - 08:23
Posts: 10870
Location: LI NY

That sound pretty bad. these aren't cheap lights.

qjarq
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Last seen: 1 year 3 weeks ago
Joined: 05/01/2013 - 15:33
Posts: 22

Sorry to hear that.

My SHOOTER 2X from 2014 year has that kind of film on the reflector too. Thanks I haven’t tried to clean it up.

It’s not a good sign in these class of flashlights.

jacc
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Last seen: 1 week 1 day ago
Joined: 03/02/2016 - 04:11
Posts: 64
Location: Malaysia

Hi guys

A fellow forumer over here made a few other comments on this flashlight after my post, but now the post is gone (might be some glitch).

Anyhow, I contemplated to put this up but in the name of free speech I will also put up the rest of the problems I have with this flashlight:
1. The flashlight has the faulty driver, where it automatically switches off (randomly) when running in click-switch-turbo. Typically 10 secs.

2. The tailcap has “pot holes” which are anodised over. It means that the original surface was damaged before it underwent anodising. “Open image in new tab to enlarge”

3. Hotspot coronas

Item #1, Banggood said they will send a replacement, however, I have no tools to open up the flashlight, let alone “attempt” to damage an expensive flashlight further than whatever it is. Item #2, Amanda claims it was “damaged” during transportation and pushes the blame to BG, she asked me to speak to BG (where BG agrees to send a replacement). Even when I offered to send the tailcap back to Amanda for her QC, she still insist that it was damaged during transportation (remember, the pot-holes are actually anodised over…lol Wink )

Updated: hotspot with corona.

T18
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Last seen: 6 hours 32 min ago
Joined: 02/14/2016 - 15:29
Posts: 929

Yes Jacc no glitch and that post would have been mine,

I absolutely just hate posting something negative about a Maxtoch light,

But I wanted to say mostly to you what is going on with my light, the conversations I have had with Maxtoch, the driver issues, and I only posted my issues so you will know there might be even more problems and that you are not alone, plus some of what you might run into with BG and to mention that it seems that Maxtoch will not be able to help you with your issues.

I have no idea why Maxtoch is not backing their product, I have personally had a fair relation with Maxtoch in the past and so this is not in character with the person I’ve dealt with in the past, so it is very uncomfortable and just odd to me.
So I figured it had been up long enough to have been read and so I pulled it down..

If I can help you with any questions you may have just PM me, Thanks..

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