17mm & 20/26/27mm single-sided DD/FET driver release: A17DD-SO8 / A20DD-SO8 / etc

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sinner
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Oh goodies are coming, my boards will be delivered sometime this week.

i took the liberty of adding a little personal touch on the silk screen to the insides, while the credits given where its due, Thanks again Alex for making these beautiful pieces.

I have ordered them in 2Oz Copper instead of 1Oz, Immersion gold, 1.6mm FR4, black soldermask. to my liking.

contact(at)sinnercustoms.com

sinner
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djozz wrote:

I am willing to make me these boards, I have the components but not the FET. And Mouser and Digikey are too expensive. I found these on Ebay, will they do the job? :

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PSMN9R0-30YL-NXP-MOSFET-N-CH-30V-61A-LFPAK-10PCS-LOT-/281514838554?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item418b978a1a

I am also missing the FET , for now the best (economical) option was the aliexpress seller but It still a slightly lower spec’d FET not sure if this would be an exact replacement for the PSMN3R0

Its PSMN6R0-30YLB
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/PSMN6R0-30YLB-115-MOSFET-N-CH-30V-LFPAK-PSMN6R0-30YLB-NEW-Semiconductors-6R0-30Y-PSMN6R0-30Y/32223717242.html

contact(at)sinnercustoms.com

Tom E
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Crap, I had no clue that zener mods were that bad with e-switch lights.... Yikes! Sure it was mentioned (I guess?) but totally missed it. Thanks wight for starting that thread and new board design!! I'll be sure to susbscribe and follow. Hhmm... Means the Y3 MT-G2's had that issue? Oh boy... Deleted - no harm intended Tuff to keep up with all the driver goin's on's...

wight
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sinner wrote:
djozz wrote:

I am willing to make me these boards, I have the components but not the FET. And Mouser and Digikey are too expensive. I found these on Ebay, will they do the job? :

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PSMN9R0-30YL-NXP-MOSFET-N-CH-30V-61A-LFPAK-10PCS-LOT-/281514838554?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item418b978a1a

I am also missing the FET , for now the best (economical) option was the aliexpress seller but It still a slightly lower spec’d FET not sure if this would be an exact replacement for the PSMN3R0

Its PSMN6R0-30YLB
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/PSMN6R0-30YLB-115-MOSFET-N-CH-30V-LFPAK-PSMN6R0-30YLB-NEW-Semiconductors-6R0-30Y-PSMN6R0-30Y/32223717242.html

This looks very suitable to me. Do you see any spec you do not like?

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

wight
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Tom E wrote:

Crap, I had no clue that zener mods were that bad with e-switch lights…. Yikes! Sure it was mentioned (I guess?) but totally missed it. Thanks wight for starting that thread and new board design!! I’ll be sure to susbscribe and follow. Hhmm… Means the Y3 MT-G2’s had that issue? Oh boy… Wonder if Richard made that clear on his site… Would think he’d know. Tuff to keep up with all the driver goin’s on’s…

I moved my reply over to the other thread.

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

sinner
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wight wrote:
sinner wrote:
djozz wrote:

I am willing to make me these boards, I have the components but not the FET. And Mouser and Digikey are too expensive. I found these on Ebay, will they do the job? :

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PSMN9R0-30YL-NXP-MOSFET-N-CH-30V-61A-LFPAK-10PCS...

I am also missing the FET , for now the best (economical) option was the aliexpress seller but It still a slightly lower spec'd FET not sure if this would be an exact replacement for the PSMN3R0 Its PSMN6R0-30YLB http://www.aliexpress.com/item/PSMN6R0-30YLB-115-MOSFET-N-CH-30V-LFPAK-P... This looks very suitable to me. Do you see any spec you do not like?


Not in particular, but some vary.. have a look.


PSMN3R0
/ PSMN6R0
Drain to Source Voltage (Vdss) ------------------- 30V / 30V
Current - Continuous Drain (Id) @ 25°C ---------- 100A (Tc) / 71A (Tc)
Rds On (Max) @ Id, Vgs -------------------------- 3.1 mOhm @ 25A, 10V / 6.5 mOhm @ 20A, 10V
Vgs(th) (Max) @ Id --------------------------------2.2V @ 1mA / 1.95V @ 1mA
Gate Charge (Qg) @ Vgs --------------------------46.4nC @ 10V / 19nC @ 10V
Input Capacitance (Ciss) @ Vds------------------- 2939pF @ 15V / 1088pF @ 15V
Power - Max ---------------------------------------91W / 58W
Mounting Type Surface Mount (same)
Package / Case SC-100, SOT-669, 4-LFPAK (same)
Supplier Device Package LFPAK56, Power-SO8 (same)

contact(at)sinnercustoms.com

wight
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sinner wrote:
Not in particular, but some vary.. have a look.


PSMN3R0
/ PSMN6R0
Drain to Source Voltage (Vdss) —————————- 30V / 30V
Current – Continuous Drain (Id) 25°C ----------&nbsp;<strong><span style="color: #3366ff;">100A (Tc)</span></strong> / <span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>71A (Tc)</strong></span> <br>Rds On (Max) Id, Vgs ————————————— 3.1 mOhm 25A, 10V</span></strong> / <strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">6.5 mOhm 20A, 10V
Vgs(th) (Max) Id --------------------------------<strong><span style="color: #3366ff;">2.2V 1mA / 1.95V 1mA</span></strong> <br>Gate Charge (Qg) Vgs —————————————46.4nC 10V</strong></span> / <span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>19nC 10V
Input Capacitance (Ciss) Vds-------------------&nbsp;<strong><span style="color: #3366ff;">2939pF 15V
/ 1088pF @ 15V
Power – Max ———————————————————-91W / 58W
Mounting Type Surface Mount (same)
Package / Case SC-100, SOT-669, 4-LFPAK (same)
Supplier Device Package LFPAK56, Power-SO8 (same)
When you look at the Vgs graphs the Vgs advantage of the FET you selected (PSMN6R0-30YLB) becomes even more clear in my opinion. AFAIK lower gate charge is desirable, also lower input capacitance sounds like a good thing. Dissipation (the 58W number) doesn’t really matter in this context, we should not dissipate anything significant in the FET. The Rds(on) seems like it may end up 10-15 milliohms higher in the Vgs range we actually use. That may not be ideal, but I think it’s acceptable.

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

Rufusbduck
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Hey wight, was perusing mouser and found the PSMNOR9-30YLD with an even lower Rds(still below 2mOhms at 3V) but it runs the price up. Maybe a GB for a bunch and adding normal postage to that might be reasonable.

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

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Rufusbduck wrote:
Maybe a GB for a bunch and adding normal postage to that might be reasonable.

There is no such thing as normal postage out of US, unfortunately.

 

Rufusbduck
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When I did the GB for the tiny 10 postage was pretty cheap. Photo envelopes were only $.50 and postage and paypal fees worldwide were only $1.15. These are more expensive FET’s so it makes more sense to do a GB for a bunch than ordering onesie-twosie. Still, it would makes sense to try them out and see if they’re worth the added expense.

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

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My first batch run, first homes:

Oops, already fixed the bridge between pins 5&6 on the ATtiny13A:

X6 BLF Special Edition:

ZeusRay zoomie:

 

 

wight
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Rufusbduck wrote:
Hey wight, was perusing mouser and found the PSMNOR9-30YLD with an even lower Rds(still below 2mOhms at 3V) but it runs the price up. Maybe a GB for a bunch and adding normal postage to that might be reasonable.
This looks like a good FET. I don’t see any downside other than the price; I think all specifications are either acceptable [with no impact on performance] or better. The low Rds(on) through 3v looks especially interesting. Only testing will tell us whether it’s worth an extra $1/ea in general, but I’d say that this FET has better specs than PSMN3R0-30YLD.

Tom E wrote:
My first batch run, first homes:
http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s496/TomE2012/A17DD-S08/P1020624_zps...
Oops, already fixed the bridge between pins 5&6 on the ATtiny13A:
http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s496/TomE2012/A17DD-S08/P1020625_zps...
X6 BLF Special Edition:
http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s496/TomE2012/A17DD-S08/P1020627_zps...
ZeusRay zoomie:
http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s496/TomE2012/A17DD-S08/P1020628_zps...
Thanks for the pics Tom E, your builds look good!

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

DB Custom
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Sweet driver isn’t it? Smile

Y’all would come up with a better FET immediately after I ordered 25 of em!

Tom E
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I did bout all the continuity tests I could think of but guess didn't check for shorts. Only way I noticed the short on the MCU was by looking at the picture I took - funny....

Not happy yet with the reflow job - parts getting moved, sometimes blown off, etc., by my cheapo hot air tool. Also I got a fantastic solder paste needle from Richard at MtnElectronics, but I'm still trying to get used to it. Didn't try stencils yet, but that sort of would change my supply from a needle to a tub of solder paste, so dunno...

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Tom E wrote:

I did bout all the continuity tests I could think of but guess didn’t check for shorts. Only way I noticed the short on the MCU was by looking at the picture I took – funny….


Not happy yet with the reflow job – parts getting moved, sometimes blown off, etc., by my cheapo hot air tool. Also I got a fantastic solder paste needle from Richard at MtnElectronics, but I’m still trying to get used to it. Didn’t try stencils yet, but that sort of would change my supply from a needle to a tub of solder paste, so dunno…

I’ve been thinking of making an updated landing pad for D1/R3 with a little more guidance for the SOD-323 diode’s leads. That won’t help with C1 though, I think that’s the only other component it looked like you had noticeable trouble with. (and I mean that only in a perfectionist sense – clearly the ‘trouble’ is only a mild aesthetic problem!!) I think a little less paste + improved heat gun technique is probably the key to that one.

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

djozz
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I did not do more than two driver buil-ups with it yet, but I certainly can recommend using a heat block, like my converted 12V solder iron, it worked perfectly, and no components blown away.

( http://budgetlightforum.com/node/18833#comment-334252  -post#27- for how I made it , and oh, do not watch the shakey led reflow vid in this post, it was almost two years ago, I'm way better at it now Smile )

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I use a 6” diameter 1/8” thick SS plate on my stove top. I just did 2 drivers still joined together and it worked out beautifully! Finished them up with wires and springs, complete with spring bypass and they’re still joined together. Smile Those 2 are going to bugsy to help him on his inspections…

wight
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On parts getting blown off… I found that it helped to make sure my paste, PCB, and parts all started at a reasonably warm temperature when I assembled them. I generally give all the components a little poke down into the paste too, but sometimes I don’t like where that puts me. Then I have to remove the component and re-do that paste.

@ djozz – I don’t think I could handle having hot chunk of aluminum like that plugged in on my workbench. I’d be burned in no time. Wink [Also I’m too impatient for a solution of that type, I’d have to build a temp controlled one w/ high wattage for a fast heatup.]

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

Tom E
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I'm loving the layouts on these. To me it's the 3rd generation and each was a step up: BLF (Mattaus/comfy/warhark), 2nd: C_K, 3rd: the "wight" one Smile.

I think recent posts by Mattaus and C_K imply those designs may be done - won't be updated anymore, but not sure if they were serious, or meant no planned changes for now...

I love the short traces, everything right there, the continuous ground rings with good width. The pads seem huge but don't think it makes much of a difference - I know I'm over-doing the paste, but my fault. I haven't powered one up yet, so I know I'm speaking early - by the weekend I should know a lot more... I bought qty 12 of the FET's, so if the newer FET's are preferred, I'm not over committed.

If you are thinking of board tweaks soon, I'll hold off buying for a little while - I bougt only 6 of the 17's, 3 of the 20's.

Update: I use a coffee mug warmer. Tip from a friend who's done a ton of hobby (ham radio, rocket stuff, etc.) and side job prototype/1 off electronics (an EE). I'll sit the boards on the warmer for like a 1 minute or so to warm them up. My friend says it's about the perfect temp. 

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Matt is burned out, stepping out completely. So he won’t be redesigning anything for a while, if ever. I think he’s got a lot on his plate and all this was taking up too much time.
I feel like he’ll be back, maybe soon even, but he’s got to step out for a while….like many of us he’s got the bug though…he’ll be back. Wink

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Cool Dale. I've said the same sort of things - stupid forums makes your words into a permanent record, not reality at times, but just records your thoughts of the moment... I get into trouble at times, sure many of us do... All good here though - why I love BLF! Smile

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DBCstm wrote:
Sweet driver isn’t it? Smile

Y’all would come up with a better FET immediately after I ordered 25 of em!


Sorry Dale :_( but you should run through those in a week or so right? I’ve lost track of a few threads but was reading about single cell FET problems somewhere and thought I’d look around. There were a number of ultra low Rds on chips listed on the nxp site but non were lower in the 3V range and this one even had a different scale for resistance(ran off the graph at only 6mohms/2.5Vgs). Like I said above though, it would make a lot more sense in this case to do a GB which I’d be willing to do for something this straight forward but only if the gains were realized. To that end would you like me to order some for you to do a head to head comparison? My modding time is as always minimal but I can order things easily enough(a bit too easily).

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

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Tom E wrote:
Not happy yet with the reflow job - parts getting moved, sometimes blown off, etc., by my cheapo hot air tool. Also I got a fantastic solder paste needle from Richard at MtnElectronics, but I'm still trying to get used to it. Didn't try stencils yet, but that sort of would change my supply from a needle to a tub of solder paste, so dunno...

I can understand the disappointment Tom E with your above comments but in my mind you have done an amazing job. I'd be only to happy to take these of your hands so you no longer have to look at them if you like. Thanks for showing us silly buggers your work.

I have been using the same heat gun you have after an earlier post of yours and love it for putting leds on stars. 

 

djozz quotes, "it came with chinese lettering that is chinese to me".

                      "My man mousehole needs one too"

old4570 said "I'm not an expert , so don't suffer from any such technical restrictions".

Old-Lumens. Highly admired and cherished member of Budget Light Forum. 11.5.2011 - 20.12.16. RIP.

 

Tom E
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Ohh, so cool! Yes, agree think it works pretty good, considering. The coffee cup warmer makes a big difference though - the heat gun does it's thing quicker, and think you get better solder flow.

wight
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Tom E wrote:

Ohh, so cool! Yes, agree think it works pretty good, considering. The coffee cup warmer makes a big difference though – the heat gun does it’s thing quicker, and think you get better solder flow.

Good tip. Do you just leave the boards on the warmer when you apply the hot air, or do you pick them up and move them? Do you add your solder paste and components before or after putting the PCB on the warmer?

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

Tom E
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I do the solder paste and parts first, then sit them on the warmer, give them maybe a minute to warm, then use the hot air with them sitting on the mug warmer. My friend said he doesn't use the mug warmers anymore because pretty much all the boards he does now are bigger. He uses an electric skillet now for everything - can handle bigger boards easily. I did the 3 at one time, but think I'll only do one on the warmer at a time - easier to manage. I should be doing my LED reflows the same way -- mostly still doing the frying pan, but totally forgot bout the mug warmer on the last round.

I should take a live action shot, or video Smile.

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I built a Courui with the A17DD-S08 this evening. Toy Keepers ramping firmware. I raised the XM-L2 U2 1D on a copper pedestal for ease of focusing. Also bolted in a 1” long x 1.25” diameter aluminum heat sink under the emitter shelf. Put a short 18ga wire on the pcb in the tail with 22ga wire bypass in the springs. With freshly charged Samsung 25R cells it does 1718 lumens with a 166.5Kcd lux and 816M throw. Very nice light!

This driver rocks Wight! :bigsmile:

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Tom E wrote:

My first batch run, first homes:

 

NICE!!!!!!

djozz
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Tom E wrote:

I do the solder paste and parts first, then sit them on the warmer, give them maybe a minute to warm, then use the hot air with them sitting on the mug warmer. My friend said he doesn't use the mug warmers anymore because pretty much all the boards he does now are bigger. He uses an electric skillet now for everything - can handle bigger boards easily. I did the 3 at one time, but think I'll only do one on the warmer at a time - easier to manage. I should be doing my LED reflows the same way -- mostly still doing the frying pan, but totally forgot bout the mug warmer on the last round.

I should take a live action shot, or video Smile.

you should have a go boosting the coffeewarmer a bit one way or another, so that it gets hot enough to do perfect reflows all by itself!

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I went to the coffee mug warmer mod forum - some usefull info Smile

Anyone look into values for LVP yet with these? I tried the same values I used on the C_K boards with 22K R1's and seems like it's tripping lower. I'll need to raise the values. I think I used 115/105, so will go for 123/115 - hoping that will be about 3.0v/2.8v, maybe slightly less...

Best I could figure is the first level tripped at about 2.75v, critical trip was maybe 2.45v or so.

I used my bench power supply and double-checked the voltage across the LED with the DMM.

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