Triple not working - anyone spot check my setup?

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Chicken Drumstick
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Triple not working - anyone spot check my setup?

Got a triple XP-G2 from Int’l Outdoor.

And I’m using this driver:
http://www.lck-led.com/24mm-3000ma-driver-modes-p-936.html

Running it in a 2D Mag with 2×26650.

I think I’m meant to be running it as a series setup, although I find the info on the Lck-led site very hard to read.

Following Int’l Outdoors website:

I removed the jumpers and soldered the wires (what does the exclamation mark on the right hand LED pad mean??)

This is what it looks like:

It doesn’t light up. I can measure 7.6-7.7v at the wires on the star. Have I just wired this up wrong, or is something else up?

Hikelite
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First what you want to do? LEDs in series?  You removing the jumpers now have nothing correct neither parallel neither series.

Old-Lumens
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With no jumpers it is automatically in Series for the three outside leds. 3 in series, so you are correct. It is in series, but just make sure you reflowed the leds on the right way. The led with the asterisk has to be turned one way for series, or the other way for parallel. It's a very complicated way of doing things, at least to me it is.

 

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Hikelite
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For series the LEDs are not reflowed correctly the one on the right is it soldered for parallel. I assume that is because the board was bought with jumpers and LED soldered for parallel.

scottyhazzard
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Wow, that is a complex, confusing set up. Nice options but a bit like a puzzle.

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Hikelite
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scottyhazzard wrote:
Wow, that is a complex, confusing set up. Nice options but a bit like a puzzle.

Quite simple if you understand circuits and polarity.

Chicken Drumstick
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Old-Lumens wrote:

With no jumpers it is automatically in Series for the three outside leds. 3 in series, so you are correct. It is in series, but just make sure you reflowed the leds on the right way. The led with the asterisk has to be turned one way for series, or the other way for parallel. It’s a very complicated way of doing things, at least to me it is.

 

sdfg

Thanks for the reply. So what needs to be done is the right hand led needs removing, turning round and re-flowing?

If that’s the case that’s a real bugger. I bought the board as it (with the jumpers and leds already on it). And the Int’l Outdoor site doesn’t say anything about reflowing leds.

I don’t have any way to reflow a led. My soldering iron isn’t upto the task and I don’t have anything else to use.

DB Custom
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If you’re wanting series the bottom right emitter is facing the wrong direction. Positive should be on the right on that one for series.

Edit: You have the emitters on the star as parallel, if you use the jumpers it should work… looking at the specs on that driver I don’t see any mention of being able to boost current to handle the nearly 10V requirement of 3 series from the 8.4V max of 2 cells. I could be wrong though, not familiar with that driver. It will definitely work in parallel, just not sure about series. Hook up your jumpers and you should be fine.

Chicken Drumstick
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Hikelite wrote:

scottyhazzard wrote:
Wow, that is a complex, confusing set up. Nice options but a bit like a puzzle.

Quite simple if you understand circuits and polarity.

But when you buy it pre-mounted it is. And the web page only mentions this:

http://intl-outdoor.com/noctigon-xp32-mcpcb-cree-xpg2-s3-3c-leds-p-853.html

LEDs already set in parallel configuration, for other configuration please look at the graphic”

To which it is only obvious about the jumpers. If I known I was needing to reflow LED’s I’d not have bought it, or any of the other things for the build (host, optics, driver). And if I had the ability to re-flow Leds I wouldn’t haver bought this anyhow as I’d want a different tint bin to the offered one.

I usually support Hank and Int’l Outdoor, but not all that impressed with this item as the moment.

Hikelite
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You bought an item with LEDs set in parallel but made an wrong prejudgment, not sure why you should feel bad about Hank. At least you could have asked before purchase.

Hikelite
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DBCstm wrote:
If you're wanting series the bottom right emitter is facing the wrong direction. Positive should be on the right on that one for series. Edit: You have the emitters on the star as parallel, if you use the jumpers it should work... looking at the specs on that driver I don't see any mention of being able to boost current to handle the nearly 10V requirement of 3 series from the 8.4V max of 2 cells. I could be wrong though, not familiar with that driver. It will definitely work in parallel, just not sure about series. Hook up your jumpers and you should be fine.

Actually it says it some typical thing for these FL drivers, says it is buck then says it is boost. Apparently it is boosting

Automatically buck: single lithium or double-lithium can promote 3-4XML boost,3-4 Lithium constant current constant temperature driven,Is reduced, the process is automatically switched No operator

Chicken Drumstick
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Hikelite wrote:

You bought an item with LEDs set in parallel but made an wrong prejudgment, not sure why you should feel bad about Hank. At least you could have asked before purchase.


No, I bought what looks to be something you only need to change jumpers to change from parallel to the other. There is no info on that webpage that CLEARLY says otherwise. So please don’t be a condescending dick about.

And no I’m not happy, because I have something I can’t currently use and don’t really have the tools or the ability to rectify. If it was obvious from the web listing I’d simply have bought something else and not pissed good money away.

Hikelite
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Bad language mister, just posting my opinion and it still remains the same.

Chicken Drumstick
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Hikelite wrote:

Bad language mister, just posting my opinion and it still remains the same.


Yes bad language, for which I apologise, but your comment was rather insulting too. Just a little cheesed off, as the image I posted and is on the webpage, is insufficient. In the UK Trading Standards would have a field day.
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Chicken Drumstick if u want to try this go in your kitchen and grab a little frying pan and lay the copper board flat and turn on your stove like your going to cook something lol, grab your tweezers and watch the leds and solder under the leds to heat up, turn the heat all the way down and pool the led off and then the copper board, flip around the led u pooled off put it back in the pan and wait till u see the solder melt and your done Smile

 

do it if your old enough lol

hank
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I accidentally overheated a board while struggling to get the wires soldered onto it, the LED slid sideways and came off.

D’oh.

Eventually I cleaned everything off, looked at another emitter to make sure which way was up, laid the board on top of a something or other
C-shaped like a bit of split copper pipe with a flat end figuring the heat would belong right under the emitter but would spread out, and the C-shaped bit of metal might protect the rest of the board.

Stuck the soldering iron underneath where the emitter ought to be
Nudged the emitter gently to exactly where it ought to be
Kept the heat on
It sort of wiggled and laid down flat.

I pulled the heat off and stared at it for a few seconds wondering if the solder had turned solid yet.

Realized it had.

Lifted the star away with pliers and set it on a flat piece of metal.
And started blowing on the thing like crazy for a while to cool it off.

Then I more carefully cleaned off the wire positions and soldered them and tried it.

Lit right up.

You’d be surprised. Heck, you might be astonished.

PS — it’d have been smarter to do this on a throwaway emitter and board from my trash bin.
But I always figured I’d never get it right the first time and wasn’t ready for the long painful learning curve.

Well, well …

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The board is pretty clearly labeled. S-, S+ and P+, P- with an exclamation to highlight it. This sort of gerrymandering is necessary with series/parallel combo boards. All you need to reflow is a hot plate or cooktop and the lid from a tin can or a pan. Either that or sever the traces to isolate that led and add wire jumpers to power it.

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Chicken Drumstick
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nitro wrote:

Chicken Drumstick if u want to try this go in your kitchen and grab a little frying pan and lay the copper board flat and turn on your stove like your going to cook something lol, grab your tweezers and watch the leds and solder under the leds to heat up, turn the heat all the way down and pool the led off and then the copper board, flip around the led u pooled off put it back in the pan and wait till u see the solder melt and your done Smile

 

do it if your old enough lol


Thanks for the suggestion. But I have an induction hob and my girlfriend would kill me I used a frying pan (non stick) for this kind of thing.
Chicken Drumstick
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Ok, have watched a couple of YouTube vids and gave it a go with the soldering iron.

Led came off, rotated it and it appears to be soldered back on. However it still doesn’t work.

I measure 7.8’ish volts coming from the driver on the +- wires on the star.

Microa
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You have tinned the solder pads of the jumpers but not been bridged. Add more solder to connect the pads.

Microa
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Sorry, I am wrong. Connection in series don’t need the jumpers.

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Microa wrote:
You have tinned the solder pads of the jumpers but not been bridged. Add more solder to connect the pads.

Read the whole thread. He bought this with the jumpers on, set up for parallel. That’s why there is solder on those pads. He took the jumpers off so he could use it in series. Bridging those pads is not going to help. Wink

Edit: You caught it before I did. :bigsmile:

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Chicken Drumstick wrote:
Ok, have watched a couple of YouTube vids and gave it a go with the soldering iron.

Led came off, rotated it and it appears to be soldered back on. However it still doesn’t work.

I measure 7.8’ish volts coming from the driver on the +- wires on the star.


7.8’ish volts? With the LED’s in series, shouldn’t you have around 10v to turn them on?

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hank
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The driver instruction page says

Quote:
Connection: red line to the LED+. Black line to LED-, the battery+ on the the baffle center, The casing connection-line. Attention to insulation and cooling, otherwise you will burn the LED or circuit board. Before detection circuit board and LED is normal, do not installed on the machine.

Clear as mud…

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do you use 3 or 4 cells in series to power that thing?

 

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Chicken Drumstick
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Using 2 × 26650, as I was under the understanding that should work. I was recommended this driver for this setup in a previous thread.

Driver spec says:

“Operating voltage:3-18V”

Should I be doing something different to get this to work. At this stage I’ve got myself completely confused with series and parallel in regard to what voltage will be sent to each led vs current.

Jackasper
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the driver can’t put out enough voltage to run this setup in series unless you add another battery. If a third battery is not an option, then the bottom right emitter needs to be flipped back around and the jumpers need be put back on to make a parallel configuration. It then will work

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I think this is no boost driver!

rebuilding to parallel should bring the light…

 

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Assuming that the led’s are ok and all soldered joints have connection there is only one reason for it not to work, the star that is.
A short, double check that where you removed the jumpers has no solder left to bridge the gap, the top (in the pic) one looks like it is bridged.

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I know I might get my hand into fire by replying but the current setup is nothing, neither parallel neither series because the jumpers are removed. Edit: I was looking at the OP image


Soldering the jumpers back will make the connection in parallel if you have not switched the position of the LEDs.
Or switching the polarity of the lower right LED without having jumpers soldered will make the configuration in series. Careful with the wire inputs where are soldered.


That driver claims that it is boosting right, then you need less input voltage than output voltage, very clearly, again if it is a boost driver.

"Automatically buck: single lithium or double-lithium can promote 3-4XML boost,"
This of course makes no sense. Buck is not boost, Boost is not buck simple as day an night.  But still one could try to deduce that inputting 2 cells should makes the driver be able to run 3-4 LEDs in series.

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I agree your emitters are properly installed now for a series setup but a couple of other things come to mind.

This would be easier if I could mark up your photo but I’m not sure how so here goes, all comments relative to your photo in post 48.

Confirm the jumper pads closest to the + pad are not bridged, hard to tell from the photo.

You mention 7.8ish V from the driver, I assume that’s a dynamic measurement on the + and – wires. Match’s graph (here) shows forward voltage of the XP-G2 starting at 2.8V (for only 200mA). I think your available voltage is too low.
I would do a voltage drop across each emitter to confirm. Use a DVOM, first + probe to red wire from driver, – probe to pad at 2:00 in the photo. Second, + probe to 2:00 pad, – probe to P+ marked pad just below center in the photo. Last + probe to P+ pad just below center, – probe to – wire from driver.

If I’m not mistaken, for a 2.8A driver you should be seeing approximately 3.0-3.1V per LED or 9.9V across the driver wires.

But then again I may be out in left field.

Good luck with it.

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