UF-1504, 1503, 1505 - multiple LED's tested for throw (just what you have been waiting for!!!)

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n10sivern
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UF-1504, 1503, 1505 - multiple LED's tested for throw (just what you have been waiting for!!!)

Ok, so I spent a crap load of time doing this. For the driver I used an A17DD-S08 that I built to direct drive the LED’s with the exception of the red LED. I used the same pill and same driver for each LED to eliminate inconsistencies. For batteries, each test was on a freshly charged unprotected Keeppower 26650 4200mAh high drain battery. For the Lux Meter I used a LX1330B. Lux was taken at a measured 6 feet 30 seconds after turning on the flashlight. I did use two different LED’s as I dedomed all the LED’s at one time except for the extra XP-G2 to replace the damaged one.

There are some surprising results!!!

Some notes:
There is an increase in output from the red XP-E2 that is dedomed, but removing the dome is a frigging hassle on this LED. It’s harder than the others despite adding a ton more heat. I had one XP-G2 S3 that I dedomed that gave mediocre results. It would only pull 2.92A at 351 kcd. I assume I damaged it taking the dome off. I killed 2 qlite drivers and 2 red LED’s. I dunno what the hell is going on there. I ran the test on the red dedomed LED just fine. Changed the LED to a domed one and when I check current at the tail, the DMM read a really high current and pop goes the DMM fuse, LED, and driver. Being the genius I am I did it again and got the same results. That’s why I had to use the domed red LED results I took a week ago.

Here is a picture of some of the LED’s

XM-L2 U4 1C
Domed – 56800 lx at 4.70A for 190 kcd
Hot Dedomed – 130000 lx at 4.73A for 435 kcd

XM-L2 U3 1A
Domed – 51400 lx at 5.11A for 172 kcd
Hot Dedomed – 114800 lx at 5.15A for 384 kcd

XP-L V6 1A
Domed – 56500 lx at 5.87A for 189 kcd
Hot Dedomed – 107900 lx at 5.82A for 361 kcd

XP-G2 S4 2B
Domed – 74800 lx at 3.80A for 250 kcd
Hot Dedomed – 137000 lx at 3.76A for 458 kcd

XP-G2 S3 1C (the ones I sold)
Domed – 75900 lx at 4.05A for 254 kcd
Hot Dedomed – 127000 lx at 4.05A for 425 kcd

XP-E2 P4 Red (from Mouser) using 6x .380 4135 driver at 2.28A
Domed – 93 kcd (tested previously)
Hot Dedomed – 39900 lx for 133 kcd

Update:
I got dedomed the other XM-L2 U4 and XP-G2 S4. I also tested the previous XM-L2 U4 and XP-G2 S4 in the 1505 and 1503. The amp readings are from a different meter since I need a fuse in my other one and all the currents are higher. These were taken hanging from the ceiling 6 feet over the lux meter in my garage. I checked with my LX-1010B lux meter and readings were within a couple thousand lux. I used freshly charged Sony VTC5’s for the readings.

1504
New hot dedome XM-L2 U4 1C at 5.05A for 118300 lx and 396 kcd
New hot dedome XP-G2 S4 2B at 4.74A for 135100 lx and 452 kcd

1503
hot dedome XM-L2 U4 1C at 5.40A for 53000 lx for 177 kcd
hot dedome XP-G2 S4 2B at 4.32A for 54200 lx for 181 kcd

1505
hot dedome XM-L2 U4 1C at 5.28A for 42200 lx for 141 kcd
hot dedome XP-G2 S4 2B at 4.90A for 34100 lx for 114 kcd

Three tomatoes are walking down the street- a poppa tomato, a momma tomato, and a little baby tomato. Baby tomato starts lagging behind. Poppa tomato gets angry, goes over to the baby tomato, and smooches him… and says, Catch up.

Edited by: n10sivern on 05/15/2015 - 14:38
Sirius9
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Thanks for taking the time to do all this testing.
If you have them it would be nice to add stock setup measurements just so people would know how “bad” they are Smile
For red leds I am using gasoline dedome method and it is still a hassle because silicon stays stuck to phosphor surface,
and 7×7135 driver…

 

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Wow, that is a ton of work!  Thanks for the effort, very useful.  

That XM-L2 U4 is a nice surprise! At only 4.73A it beats the U3 at 5.15A with flying colours. I hope it is not just a lucky emitter and that they all perform so well.

And I have been proven wrong here on the red XP-E2 throw: the throw does improve after dedoming.

link to djozz tests 

“I used to think that top environmental problems were biodiversity loss, ecosystem collapse and climate change. I thought that thirty years of good science could address these problems. I was wrong. The top environmental problems are selfishness, greed and apathy, and to deal with these we need a cultural and spiritual transformation. And we scientists don’t know how to do that.”   (Gus Speth)

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Orsm work. I was thinking the same as djozz on the XML-2 U4.

My current and or voltage measurements are only relevent to anything that I measure.

Budget light hobby proudly sponsored by my Mastercard and unknowingly paid for by a hard working wife. 

djozz said "it came with chinese lettering that is chinese to me".

old4570 said "I'm not an expert , so don't suffer from any such technical restrictions".

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n10sivern
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djozz wrote:

Wow, that is a ton of work!  Thanks for the effort, very useful.  

That XM-L2 U4 is a nice surprise! At only 4.73A it beats the U3 at 5.15A with flying colours. I hope it is not just a lucky emitter and that they all perform so well.

And I have been proven wrong here on the red XP-E2 throw: the throw does improve after dedoming.

The XM-L2 U4 has a similar percentage change after dedoming compared to the U3 and the amperage is basically the same between dome/dedome between the two U4 emitters.

Three tomatoes are walking down the street- a poppa tomato, a momma tomato, and a little baby tomato. Baby tomato starts lagging behind. Poppa tomato gets angry, goes over to the baby tomato, and smooches him… and says, Catch up.

ChibiM
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Very very informative! thanks for the hard work!

Kloepper Knife Works
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I think the spread of numbers of the LED’s looks right on, however I’m wondering if your meter reads high on the lux measurements. They all seem about 15% high compared to what I would expect.

Does anyone else agree? Maybe it’s not that your meter reads high, maybe mine reads low.

n10sivern
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I don’t know. I plan on doing a couple more tests today with the 1503 and 1505. I have another meter but it’s a cheapie. Between the two I trust the one I used more. These measurements were taken in my garage with the door closed and no other light. A tape measure was laid out on a table, the light placed on a rifle shooting bag, and I mounted the Lux Meter at 6 feet with a timer. I adjusted the light for the highest output and at 30 seconds (some later than that) I recorded the highest number. The XP-G2 S4 I actually repeated a second time after it cooled and got 136300 lux so pretty damn close to my first one. Let me know if you think I can do anything different.

Three tomatoes are walking down the street- a poppa tomato, a momma tomato, and a little baby tomato. Baby tomato starts lagging behind. Poppa tomato gets angry, goes over to the baby tomato, and smooches him… and says, Catch up.

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Wow amazing work…thank you for you time & effort on this!

How does the tint on the de-domed U4 look?

Kloepper Knife Works
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Oh, no, I trust your efforts. The numbers just seem high compared to the measurements I get. It’s entirely likely that we’re just measuring with meters that are off a bit in opposite directions.

One thing to try just to make sure, remeasure one of the lights at 20+ feet and see if the numbers change much. With most zoomies it doesn’t make much of a difference with my meter after 15’, but I’ve had weird readings sometimes if too close.

You interested in us putting together two identical lights, measuring them, and then shipping to each other to test the differences between our meters? I think I have a spare 1504 host around here somewhere…. :bigsmile:

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One other thing, is it possible you’re getting some reflections off the table?

will manners
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Thanks so much for the very thorough testing’s n10sviern Smile

It confirms my initial train of thought that the xml2 U4 wouldnt be far behind the xpg2 s4 in terms of throw. As well as the relationship between lower current draw with the newer emitters and higher output, obviously pertaining to higher vf.

Since you’ve done so many hot dedomes, what sort of temperature and amperage range would you say is ideal to dedome xml’s and xpg’s?

n10sivern
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Kloepper Knife Works wrote:
One other thing, is it possible you’re getting some reflections off the table?

It’s possible, but the light is about 8” above the table. Over 6 feet, it seems it would be minimal. I’m gonna try something new. I’m going to place the meter on the floor and hang the light 6’ high. It’ll be easier to adjust the meter.

Three tomatoes are walking down the street- a poppa tomato, a momma tomato, and a little baby tomato. Baby tomato starts lagging behind. Poppa tomato gets angry, goes over to the baby tomato, and smooches him… and says, Catch up.

luminarium iaculator
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Kloepper Knife Works wrote:
I think the spread of numbers of the LED's looks right on, however I'm wondering if your meter reads high on the lux measurements. They all seem about 15% high compared to what I would expect. Does anyone else agree? Maybe it's not that your meter reads high, maybe mine reads low.

I got 370 (380 at startup) at 3,8A. But my 1504 lenses are not clearest one(lot of color aberration)...

As I mentioned many times before we have emitter bin lottery (up to 15%difference) and lenses lottery(up to 20% difference among same batch of lenses)

So if got lucky 450 kcd can be done or even more...

 

And of course this is crazy work from N10sivern. I am very grateful for this...

Modding is making something how you want it to be, not how it comes stock...

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Oh yes, he’s put a lot of time into the GB and testing too. I am grateful for all his efforts.

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It is a emitter lottery, lens lottery and luxmeter lottery. I'm surprised that the numbers from different people are generally so close to each other Smile

link to djozz tests 

“I used to think that top environmental problems were biodiversity loss, ecosystem collapse and climate change. I thought that thirty years of good science could address these problems. I was wrong. The top environmental problems are selfishness, greed and apathy, and to deal with these we need a cultural and spiritual transformation. And we scientists don’t know how to do that.”   (Gus Speth)

n10sivern
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Check the OP. I just updated with new data.

The 1503 was about 40% of the throw of the 1504 on both the XM-L2 and XP-G2. One was like 39.5% and the other 40.5%. Regardless, I think this consistency confirms my 1504 readings a little. As for the 1505, it didn’t like the XP-G2. I check my measurements two different times and got the same 34100 lux. Due to this, the XM-L2 U4 wins with the 1505.

Three tomatoes are walking down the street- a poppa tomato, a momma tomato, and a little baby tomato. Baby tomato starts lagging behind. Poppa tomato gets angry, goes over to the baby tomato, and smooches him… and says, Catch up.

Kloepper Knife Works
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Curious if you have any idea why the amps jumped so much with the second test of the XP-G2 S4 in a 1504? Or was it just an error typing it up?

n10sivern
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Henry, read my note. I had to use a different DMM because I didn’t have any more fuses. It read higher amps on everything

Three tomatoes are walking down the street- a poppa tomato, a momma tomato, and a little baby tomato. Baby tomato starts lagging behind. Poppa tomato gets angry, goes over to the baby tomato, and smooches him… and says, Catch up.

Kloepper Knife Works
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D’oh, how’d I miss that! slaps forehead

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Kloepper Knife Works wrote:
D’oh, how’d I miss that! slaps forehead

Haha.

Any idea why the XP-g2 performed poorly in the 1505?

Three tomatoes are walking down the street- a poppa tomato, a momma tomato, and a little baby tomato. Baby tomato starts lagging behind. Poppa tomato gets angry, goes over to the baby tomato, and smooches him… and says, Catch up.

djozz
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Thanks for more numbers. The XP-G2 S4 in the 1503 disappoints. In my shortened 1406, a dedomed XP-G2 R5 with a direct driver gives 230 kcd.

In general your numbers are not very far from what I measure in similar mods, perhaps yours are 5% higher. 

link to djozz tests 

“I used to think that top environmental problems were biodiversity loss, ecosystem collapse and climate change. I thought that thirty years of good science could address these problems. I was wrong. The top environmental problems are selfishness, greed and apathy, and to deal with these we need a cultural and spiritual transformation. And we scientists don’t know how to do that.”   (Gus Speth)

Kloepper Knife Works
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n10sivern wrote:
Kloepper Knife Works wrote:
D’oh, how’d I miss that! slaps forehead

Haha.

Any idea why the XP-g2 performed poorly in the 1505?

No idea, in a T20 the XP-G2 is about 30% higher candela output than an XM-L2 from the dozen I’ve put together. Were they tested in the same host? Your XP-G2 numbers are spot on with what I get with an S2 2B in a T20, so either that’s low on your light considering the S4 2B shows higher output than an S2 2B, or your XM-L2 measured high.

Edit: your XM-L2 number is about 60% higher than I’ve ever measured a direct drive XM-L2 in a T20. I’m betting something is going on with that number.

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I wonder…..I didn’t use any retainer on the 1505 as I didn’t feel like soldering to the pill when changing out emitters. I wonder if the XP-G2 separated from the pill slightly and the LED was getting heat soaked. Hmmmmm

Three tomatoes are walking down the street- a poppa tomato, a momma tomato, and a little baby tomato. Baby tomato starts lagging behind. Poppa tomato gets angry, goes over to the baby tomato, and smooches him… and says, Catch up.

n10sivern
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KKW, 458kcd. Tag, your it! Wink

Next week I plan to work on my ghettofied wavien collar. Maybe I can hit 500kcd! Shocked only 12500 more lux at 6’ and I’m there.

Three tomatoes are walking down the street- a poppa tomato, a momma tomato, and a little baby tomato. Baby tomato starts lagging behind. Poppa tomato gets angry, goes over to the baby tomato, and smooches him… and says, Catch up.

Kloepper Knife Works
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I challenge you to a duel!

Throws gauntlet down.

:bigsmile:

BTW, the advantage of the S4 2B disappears once my order from international outdoor shows up. Wink

Kloepper Knife Works
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I’m currently assembling one with one of the S3 3A’s I bought from you, so the ball may be back in your court before the S4 2B’s show up.

n10sivern
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Ha, no duel. I’m sure you will beat me to 500. I just wanna get to 500 just to say I could and did.

Oh, by the way, did you see the amps for the XP-L V6’s? I think it was you having issues getting the current out of them. I know there is speculation they are really V5’s from LEDDNA, but 1 bin should not cause that huge of a difference should it?

Three tomatoes are walking down the street- a poppa tomato, a momma tomato, and a little baby tomato. Baby tomato starts lagging behind. Poppa tomato gets angry, goes over to the baby tomato, and smooches him… and says, Catch up.

n10sivern
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Kloepper Knife Works wrote:
I’m currently assembling one with one of the S3 3A’s I bought from you, so the ball may be back in your court before the S4 2B’s show up.

Yeah and the 3A should be to warm to dedome. Should be a nice tint though.

Three tomatoes are walking down the street- a poppa tomato, a momma tomato, and a little baby tomato. Baby tomato starts lagging behind. Poppa tomato gets angry, goes over to the baby tomato, and smooches him… and says, Catch up.

Kloepper Knife Works
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I’ve never been scared of a warm tint.

C’mon, this could be fun, let’s push the envelope on these things. Let’s take them as far as we can get them and then swap our final resulting lights. My goal is to beat my K50vn at 575kcd. I’m thinking I can definitely do it with a 1405, but the 1504 should be a nice challenge.

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n10sivern wrote:
1503 hot dedome XM-L2 U4 1C at 5.40A for 53000 lx for 177 kcd hot dedome XP-G2 S4 2B at 4.32A for 54200 lx for 181 kcd

You got some terrible results for 50mm aspheric. In fact they are more than terrible if you ask me.

So maybe this time in this particular 1503 unit lens sucks?

Good 50 mm aspheric should throw 260kcd with 3,5A driver.

Modding is making something how you want it to be, not how it comes stock...

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