Nichia 219C, testing a 5000K 83CRI emitter, comparing with a XP-G2 S4 2B and other leds

345 posts / 0 new
Last post
Kloepper Knife Works
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 6 months ago
Joined: 12/07/2014 - 21:28
Posts: 1405
Location: Lincoln, NE

I put a 219c into a 1504 with a 16×7135 Q.lite and it pulls 6A with ease from an Efest Purple 3500mAh 26650.

Tom E
Tom E's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 53 min ago
Joined: 08/19/2012 - 08:23
Posts: 12325
Location: LI NY

Kloepper Knife Works wrote:
I put a 219c into a 1504 with a 16x7135 Q.lite and it pulls 6A with ease from an Efest Purple 3500mAh 26650.

Excellent work, btw! From the beamshot earlier you posted, looks like the 219C doesn't tint shift much when de-domed.

 Is this the same one you reported earlier with the SS collar? It sounds like it would do the same on a KK cell. I can fit the KK 26700 cells in my 1405's - the 26700's have high capacity and pretty good low resistance.

 What's the SS collar? I recall discussions - can't recall if it helped much. I tested one hand made by O-L way back but didn't get any noticeable improvements.

Kloepper Knife Works
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 6 months ago
Joined: 12/07/2014 - 21:28
Posts: 1405
Location: Lincoln, NE

Yes, same light from the earlier results I posted. The SS collar adds about 20% to the output from most of my testing.

ToyKeeper
ToyKeeper's picture
Offline
Last seen: 36 min 6 sec ago
Joined: 01/12/2013 - 14:40
Posts: 9982
Location: (469219) 2016 HO3

djozz wrote:

ToyKeeper wrote:
Does a FET+1 and NCR18650A sound like a safe combination?

Just did a very quick and dirty check with a 219C, FET driver and a NCR18650B at 4.12V: 5.45A


Thanks! That sounds pretty feasible…

Should end up at around 1240 emitter lumens, according to the chart. Close to the maximum but, more importantly, on the left side of the output curve. So I think the main remaining issue then would be heat, with is a bit easier to deal with. I may even use this as a testbed for thermal step-down features on an attiny25. In such a small driver cavity, the MCU should have a relatively easy time sensing the pill temperature, especially if I cram in a thin piece of thermal-conducting foam.

Fritz t. Cat
Fritz t. Cat's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 05/07/2013 - 00:33
Posts: 2535
Location: Si Valley

Kloepper Knife Works wrote:
I put a 219c into a 1504 with a 16×7135 Q.lite and it pulls 6A with ease from an Efest Purple 3500mAh 26650.

We are back in regulation.

Flashlight designers should look at lighthouses and pottery.
这些谁设计的手电筒应该看灯塔,以及在陶器。

finges
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 9 sec ago
Joined: 11/19/2014 - 14:50
Posts: 495
Location: Germany

I reflowed 3 of these on a (slightly well used) triple board.
I will see this evening how much they draw from a FET driver and a 25R Wink
Ok, I measured the triple at 12,8A with a fully charged 25R and at 10,8A with a fully charged 18500 IMR Efest.

DB Custom
DB Custom's picture
Offline
Last seen: 22 hours 49 min ago
Joined: 01/13/2013 - 22:28
Posts: 20324
Location: Heart of Texas

Finges, I’ll place my chips on the “north of 15A” slot on the wheel. Wink Should be impressive, wherever it falls…

Kenjii
Kenjii's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 months 14 hours ago
Joined: 01/28/2013 - 05:46
Posts: 277
Location: Cologne, Germany

finges wrote:
I reflowed 3 of these on a (slightly well used) triple board.
I will see this evening how much they draw from a FET driver and a 25R Wink


Hi,

same plan here, so i am really interested in your result Wink Just have to wait for the MCPCB

Greetings

Kenjii

Jubeldum
Jubeldum's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 8 months ago
Joined: 11/02/2014 - 09:20
Posts: 2057
Location: Michigan
djozz wrote:

Nichia did an evil thing: stacking is back from the grave Evil

Maybe the LD-2 with the correct value of flea sized resister installed is the best option?

pilotdog68
pilotdog68's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 3 days ago
Joined: 05/30/2013 - 23:31
Posts: 6420
Location: Held against my will in IOWA, USA
djozz wrote:

Nichia did an evil thing: stacking is back from the grave Evil

I think you mean slave boards are back from the grave Wink

My Favorite Modded Lights: X6R, S8 , X2R , M6, SP03

Major Projects:  Illuminated Tailcap, TripleDown/TripleStack Driver

Kloepper Knife Works
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 6 months ago
Joined: 12/07/2014 - 21:28
Posts: 1405
Location: Lincoln, NE
pilotdog68 wrote:
djozz wrote:

Nichia did an evil thing: stacking is back from the grave Evil

I think you mean slave boards are back from the grave Wink

That’ll work with some lights, but I’m not sure something like the 1504 has enough depth in the driver cavity to easily add a slave board.

finges
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 9 sec ago
Joined: 11/19/2014 - 14:50
Posts: 495
Location: Germany

Ok, I measured the triple at 12,8A with a fully charged 25R and at 10,8A with a fully charged 18500 IMR Efest.

DB Custom
DB Custom's picture
Offline
Last seen: 22 hours 49 min ago
Joined: 01/13/2013 - 22:28
Posts: 20324
Location: Heart of Texas

Very cool,

I’d expect an Efest Purple or LG HE-4, Samsung 30Q, to do higher than 12.8A. Hence my 15A wager…

Still, very impressive lot of output in a High CRI rendition, no doubt! :bigsmile:

Edit: Assuming you did spring bypasses, right? Through board on the switch? What size wires did you use? I’ve taken to using 18ga for these projects to allow every possible bit of current to flow. 16 ga if I can fit it in.

finges
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 9 sec ago
Joined: 11/19/2014 - 14:50
Posts: 495
Location: Germany

DB Custom wrote:
Edit: Assuming you did spring bypasses, right? Through board on the switch? What size wires did you use? I’ve taken to using 18ga for these projects to allow every possible bit of current to flow. 16 ga if I can fit it in.

Yes, I was also expecting a little bit more, driver and switch springs are bypassed with 22 AWG wire.

I used the standard 22 AWG silicon wire from here http://intl-outdoor.com/22-awg-highly-flexible-silicone-copper-wire-p-68...
I don’t have anything thicker atm, it is only good for around max 10A.

I will buy some of the 18 AWG wires from here http://intl-outdoor.com/18-awg-highly-flexible-silicone-copper-wire-p-73... they should be good for around max 20A.

When I measure current the tail cap is not used so the switch does not count.
But with this high currents, I will do the through board switch bypass soon.

On my DMM I used 20cm short 18 AWG wires, but I think it is not that accurate at over 10A.

edit: Still happy with the light, the triple is installed in a mini S2+. I managed to squeeze a 18500 cell into it using the shorter S2 pill. The low modes are very useable and on the highest mode it is a very (!) bright, very small, floddy light. But also after 20 sec in the highest mode the light is too hot to hold Wink

MEM
MEM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 1 month ago
Joined: 03/18/2015 - 00:51
Posts: 294
Location: Amongst Cornfields, Illinois, USA
Tom E wrote:

Kloepper Knife Works wrote:
I put a 219c into a 1504 with a 16×7135 Q.lite and it pulls 6A with ease from an Efest Purple 3500mAh 26650.

Excellent work, btw! From the beamshot earlier you posted, looks like the 219C doesn’t tint shift much when de-domed.

This is what I was trying to decipher from that photo. On my monitor, the S4 die appears way too yellow compared to anything I’ve seen in a 2B tint. The Nichia looks like the 2B tint, and the 2B looks like it would be the 219C. But as I linked to before, kelvin actually tells us nothing about true CRI. It still doesn’t explain that extremely deep yellow tint in the die corners on an S4 2B bin. I suspect the remaining polymer on the die of the 219C is actually messing with the amount of blue within focus, acting somewhat like a pre-collimator. It’s just that, it usually doesn’t occur so much without a full dome. Or I should say, usually doesn’t occur that much, with so little dome left.

The 219C appears closer to an “off-white” ~4500K with slight red fringe around the image, the Cree G2 S4 2B looks like it’s across the spectrum on my monitor, like 3300K tint in the corners. It looks de-focused, because of the corners shifting towards red spectrum and the center being colder in appearance. Hmm…. Beats me!

I like bright lights, and I cannot lie.

Kloepper Knife Works
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 6 months ago
Joined: 12/07/2014 - 21:28
Posts: 1405
Location: Lincoln, NE
MEM wrote:
Tom E wrote:

Kloepper Knife Works wrote:
I put a 219c into a 1504 with a 16×7135 Q.lite and it pulls 6A with ease from an Efest Purple 3500mAh 26650.

Excellent work, btw! From the beamshot earlier you posted, looks like the 219C doesn’t tint shift much when de-domed.

This is what I was trying to decipher from that photo. On my monitor, the S4 die appears way too yellow compared to anything I’ve seen in a 2B tint. The Nichia looks like the 2B tint, and the 2B looks like it would be the 219C. But as I linked to before, kelvin actually tells us nothing about true CRI. It still doesn’t explain that extremely deep yellow tint in the die corners on an S4 2B bin. I suspect the remaining polymer on the die of the 219C is actually messing with the amount of blue within focus, acting somewhat like a pre-collimator. It’s just that, it usually doesn’t occur so much without a full dome. Or I should say, usually doesn’t occur that much, with so little dome left.

The 219C appears closer to an “off-white” ~4500K with slight red fringe around the image, the Cree G2 S4 2B looks like it’s across the spectrum on my monitor, like 3300K tint in the corners. It looks de-focused, because of the corners shifting towards red spectrum and the center being colder in appearance. Hmm…. Beats me!

What is missing from the analysis is the fact that it’s not a white wall, creamy beige PC color is more like what it really is. I’m sure that’s why they look so yellow. The image was more for intensity, size, and relative color difference as opposed to a controlled white wall shot. It would have been good of me to state that it wasn’t a white wall in the original post of the picture

MEM
MEM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 1 month ago
Joined: 03/18/2015 - 00:51
Posts: 294
Location: Amongst Cornfields, Illinois, USA
Kloepper Knife Works wrote:
What is missing from the analysis is the fact that it’s not a white wall, creamy beige PC color is more like what it really is. I’m sure that’s why they look so yellow. The image was more for intensity, size, and relative color difference as opposed to a controlled white wall shot. It would have been good of me to state that it wasn’t a white wall in the original post of the picture

Ha, yep! Agreed, that does explain it. …I should not assume all walls with die images on them at BLF are white!

I like bright lights, and I cannot lie.

ImA4Wheelr
Offline
Last seen: 3 days 9 hours ago
Joined: 02/03/2013 - 14:51
Posts: 7915
Location: SC

I received my 219c's from Cutter today.  They were very well packed, but I was very disappointed that they were not on Noctigons as the product page indicated.  The Page clearly shows them on 20mm Noctigons and says mounted on 20mm base.  It does not say an aluminum base.  I would prefer them to not be on any base if not on a Noctigon.  Now I have to buy some DTP bases and subject the emitters to reflow heat 2 more times.

What I got:

pilotdog68
pilotdog68's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 3 days ago
Joined: 05/30/2013 - 23:31
Posts: 6420
Location: Held against my will in IOWA, USA

Hmm yeah I definitely thought they came on Noctigons. I almost ordered some 4000k from them because I figured the Noctigons would make the cost worth it.

My Favorite Modded Lights: X6R, S8 , X2R , M6, SP03

Major Projects:  Illuminated Tailcap, TripleDown/TripleStack Driver

Fritz t. Cat
Fritz t. Cat's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 05/07/2013 - 00:33
Posts: 2535
Location: Si Valley

That is a shame. There is no way they are going to work on more current than we can get through an XM-L2, without direct thermal.

Flashlight designers should look at lighthouses and pottery.
这些谁设计的手电筒应该看灯塔,以及在陶器。

Tom E
Tom E's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 53 min ago
Joined: 08/19/2012 - 08:23
Posts: 12325
Location: LI NY

Oh noooo. for some reason I thought these were bare. That is a really, really deceptive listing. Cutter has a presence here and posts - can't find the name, but if you find it, maybe you can pm. Really weird they don't offer them bare. I know their site is many times wayyy out of sync with what they really have. I think Mrs.DNF told me.

DB Custom
DB Custom's picture
Offline
Last seen: 22 hours 49 min ago
Joined: 01/13/2013 - 22:28
Posts: 20324
Location: Heart of Texas

Before you panic, check those stars. Cutter has their own DTP mcpcb’s and they are no different from Noctigon or MaxToch or SinkPAD. See if you can detect the thermal pad beside the emitter and touch it with one probe while contacting the base with the other, checking for continuity. My bet is your DMM will beep at you and all will be well with the world. Wink

MRsDNF
MRsDNF's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 16 min ago
Joined: 12/22/2011 - 21:18
Posts: 12983
Location: A light beam away from the missus in the land of Aus.

welight is the Cutter contact here. I wonder when you ordered them ImA4Wheelr whether welight was on holidays (he still is) and there is a mistake? I picked up six from there today myself along with the Noctigons separately.

 

djozz quotes, "it came with chinese lettering that is chinese to me".

                      "My man mousehole needs one too"

old4570 said "I'm not an expert , so don't suffer from any such technical restrictions".

Old-Lumens. Highly admired and cherished member of Budget Light Forum. 11.5.2011 - 20.12.16. RIP.

 

djozz
djozz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 43 min ago
Joined: 09/07/2012 - 17:04
Posts: 15949
Location: Amsterdam

I believe their DTP board is called T-pad.

ImA4Wheelr
Offline
Last seen: 3 days 9 hours ago
Joined: 02/03/2013 - 14:51
Posts: 7915
Location: SC

I haven't run across an aluminum DTP that worked nearly as good as a copper DTP yet.  None the less, these don't appear to be DTP.  I don't want to do any testing that will mar them in case I end up returning them.  They have no markings and the thermal traces indicate non-DTP.  I could not get continuity on any of the thermal pad solder blobs, but I didn't try to clean and scrap them to make sure flux coating was not interfering.

I imagine the ad or lack of Noctigons is just a mistake.  I emailed Cutter last night.  I just PM'd welight.

djozz
djozz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 43 min ago
Joined: 09/07/2012 - 17:04
Posts: 15949
Location: Amsterdam

I would not bet on a DTP board either, but can not rule it out from the picture. Let's wait what welight says about this.

testedandbaked
testedandbaked's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 09/04/2015 - 07:40
Posts: 58
Location: Australia

Cutter are usually fairly forthright with their sales, so I’d give them the benefit of the doubt unless proven otherwise. For reference the Tpad DTP stars look like so: 14mm 20mm
Say… would you be interested in parting ways with 1 or 2 of those 4000k 219Cs at all?

Tom E
Tom E's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 53 min ago
Joined: 08/19/2012 - 08:23
Posts: 12325
Location: LI NY

They did the same thing with an XP-G2 here: http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut1954. Shows the Noctigon, but says "20mm Round Shaped Metal Core PCB", which means it's a MCPCB, that's it. The link to the MCPCB is broken as well. It's not looking good.

It's a shame because they got them bare obviously because MRsDNF bought them that way, just no way to buy them on the site.

I left a query on their site about it - no response yet.

testedandbaked
testedandbaked's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 09/04/2015 - 07:40
Posts: 58
Location: Australia

Well it’s Sunday night here and the first of the posts on the issue by ImA4Wheelr was on Friday night (Melbourne time) so we shall see soon. It’ll be Monday midnight in a minute. TBH, I’d prefer them bare as Noctigons don’t come in anything smaller than 16mm.

MRsDNF
MRsDNF's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 16 min ago
Joined: 12/22/2011 - 21:18
Posts: 12983
Location: A light beam away from the missus in the land of Aus.

Just to clear things up I bought six leds and six stars, both separately. I never ordered anything by part number.

 

djozz quotes, "it came with chinese lettering that is chinese to me".

                      "My man mousehole needs one too"

old4570 said "I'm not an expert , so don't suffer from any such technical restrictions".

Old-Lumens. Highly admired and cherished member of Budget Light Forum. 11.5.2011 - 20.12.16. RIP.

 

Pages