XHP-35

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Old-Lumens
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DavidEF wrote:
Old-Lumens wrote:

I would think it's going to take 4 cells, like in an SRK, but 4 in series, to get the voltage. Once this goes up over 1.5 amps, then you will be talking more like 13-14 volts, so I would think 4 cells and a buck driver would be better off than a boost driver. Buck is usually more efficient than boost and takes less amperage from the cells. Or at least 3 in series and a boost driver.

I could see SRK lights with four of these leds in parallel and four cells in series, or a Courui with a boost driver and 3 cells in series.

Yeah, but why would you want all that power going to a XHP-35, when you could easily power up _at least_ a XHP-50 with that, and _with high-drain cells,_ a XHP-70?
 

Because possibly 3500-4000 lumens with no deadly black X of death from a four die led?    Possibly, no faceted or OP reflector needed?    Possibly 12000 lumens out of a SRK with 3.45 sized die? Not having to mod the reflectors or centering rings?  Not worth F------ with?  Maybe not, but maybe it will be.  Dale will let us know soon enough, LOL.  Wink      I don't even bother any more till Dale is done with his thing.Tongue Out

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DavidEF
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Old-Lumens wrote:

DavidEF wrote:
Old-Lumens wrote:

I would think it’s going to take 4 cells, like in an SRK, but 4 in series, to get the voltage. Once this goes up over 1.5 amps, then you will be talking more like 13-14 volts, so I would think 4 cells and a buck driver would be better off than a boost driver. Buck is usually more efficient than boost and takes less amperage from the cells. Or at least 3 in series and a boost driver.

I could see SRK lights with four of these leds in parallel and four cells in series, or a Courui with a boost driver and 3 cells in series.

Yeah, but why would you want all that power going to a XHP-35, when you could easily power up at least a XHP-50 with that, and with high-drain cells, a XHP-70?
 

Because possibly 3500-4000 lumens with no deadly black X of death from a four die led?    Possibly, no faceted or OP reflector needed?    Possibly 12000 lumens out of a SRK with 3.45 sized die? Not having to mod the reflectors or centering rings?  Not worth F——— with?  Maybe not, but maybe it will be.  Dale will let us know soon enough, LOL.  Wink      I don’t even bother any more till Dale is done with his thing.Tongue Out


Well… ya got a point there! :bigsmile:

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texas shooter
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Manual Man wrote:
I noticed the die lines running through it. I don’t think they will be visible when its running. I guess time will tell.

It should be simple enough to run one of these off a single Li-ion while still maintaining about 90% driver efficiency, in fact I think because of the nature of boost circuits it should be possible to maintain a higher average efficiency then AMC7135 drivers from 0.05A through to 2A (if Vf is not too high).

I’m thinking something like this:
http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/slvscm8a/slvscm8a.pdf

After reading the specs on this chip it look doable. Do we have any electrical engineers out there that could design a 17mm board for this. A single cell XHP35 running 1800 lumens in a P60 dropin would give throw much closer to the XM-L led as apposed to the MT-G2 and still be more efficient than either. This would also be the same for any single cell light, keeping them still in the EDC realm. I mod a lot of lights but I tend to destroy many in the process. It’s too complex for my skills. Anyone want to take up the challenge as I believe this type of driver would also give practicability too 9v MT-G2’s, 12v XHP-50’s and 70’s. I believe high drain 18650’s and 26650’s could carry the loads.

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As I understand it you wouldn’t even need high drain 18650s. Assuming 80% efficiency your looking at around 4-5A at the battery end.
I’m going to have a go at it. My step fathers an electronics engineer which helps a little but I’m still a little over my depth so time to learn a thing or two. I have a CNC router which I can prototype on.

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I just received 4 of the XHP-35’s in my grubby little paws. They look awesome! Exactly like the XP-L HI but with a larger phosphor fooprint on the substrate. (Exactly used in loose terminology at first naked eye appearance)

I’ll get a couple of macro images and see how they look. Wink

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i got the LD-2 and noctigon today..

now i have to play and decide if I hook it up with the seanna or a 100mm Aspheric Wink

 

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mmoro
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where did you bought them? price?

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Mouser just got some in. Don’t know if Mouser Spain has em or not. My invoice doesn’t show price, not sure I want to look and be reminded… Wink

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Boost drivers. We need boost drivers to run these from a single cell. Or even better, high-amp boost drivers to run several of these in parallel from a few cells in parallel.

Who is still active who knows how to design circuits? Smile

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ToyKeeper wrote:
Boost drivers. We need boost drivers to run these from a single cell. Or even better, high-amp boost drivers to run several of these in parallel from a few cells in parallel.

Who is still active who knows how to design circuits? Smile

On it. See here:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/40956

I will be copying a Ti reference desgin with a couple of slight modifications. Creating a single mode driver with over 90% efficency using the chip I pointed out (in the original post Tex linked to) up to 30W boost off a single Li-ion with output up to ~13V seems very simple… I haven’t actually built anything yet (still waiting on parts) but implementing the modes and squeezing it onto a 17m board is going to be the hard bit. I’ll post up a couple of schematics for the electrical engineers out there to review before I start prototyping.

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If it has a microcontroller and a PWM-capable switching chip like the usual FET or 7135, the modes and such should be easy. If it doesn’t have those though, it’ll probably end up being very limited.

texas shooter
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Manual Man wrote:
ToyKeeper wrote:
Boost drivers. We need boost drivers to run these from a single cell. Or even better, high-amp boost drivers to run several of these in parallel from a few cells in parallel.

Who is still active who knows how to design circuits? Smile

On it. See here:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/40956

I will be copying a Ti reference desgin with a couple of slight modifications. Creating a single mode driver with over 90% efficency using the chip I pointed out (in the original post Tex linked to) up to 30W boost off a single Li-ion with output up to ~13V seems very simple… I haven’t actually built anything yet (still waiting on parts) but implementing the modes and squeezing it onto a 17m board is going to be the hard bit. I’ll post up a couple of schematics for the electrical engineers out there to review before I start prototyping.

Glad to see two on board now. I’m a bit old fashion, but picture a P60 dropin running 15 watts and putting out 1800 Lumen. Right now it takes that much for an XM-L2 to do 1250-1300? It’s just so much more efficient even with only 90% boost efficiency. We also have new more heat bleeding designs/host. Don’t discount the possibilities; XHP-35,50,70’s and MT-G2 in EDC size lights. Picture for example the Convoy or Shadow host. Strange thought but it’s getting to the point where we can’t hot-rod the led past specs as much cause we can’t bleed out the heat fast enough. It’s looking like we are getting to the point of small size, good run time, and a ton of light without too much compromise. I’m not an engineer but I would encourage all of you out there that are to give this boost design some of you time.

Manual Man
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ToyKeeper wrote:
If it has a microcontroller and a PWM-capable switching chip like the usual FET or 7135, the modes and such should be easy. If it doesn’t have those though, it’ll probably end up being very limited.

Mmm. I was thinking a digital potentiometer but a FET sounds better / smaller. I’m still trying to fit in on a single layer at this stage so am thinking of adding legs to a 3mm thick inductor and sitting it on top of the other components. Provided those components are less then 2mm high it should just fit inside a P60 pill.

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first tests with XHP35 HI soldered to noctigon, driven from a LD-2 powered from 4 cells are bright… 8)

next step: build a setup to play with Seanna and aspheric (and courui reflector)

 

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How hard could it be to modify a SRK FET driver to run on 12v? If on board regulation of the components other than the FET could be done, it would be rather simple, right?
Something similar, maybe a little more sophisticated, to the Zener mod.

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M4D M4X, how many Amps did you set up the LD2 for?

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led4power set it to 2.5A

 

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Wonderful! Now I have to scramble through the thread and find the formula for figuring out that sense resistor… Silly

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Has anyone done current vs. lumen output tests on this led yet? Can’t seem to find any, and would love to see how this emitter performs when overdriven.

Thanks!

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unfortunately i have no bench power supply Sad

 

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AlexGT wrote:
Has anyone done current vs. lumen output tests on this led yet? Can’t seem to find any, and would love to see how this emitter performs when overdriven.

Thanks!

Cree is it so far on the current vs. lumen output chart and they stop at 1.05 amps. Some how I think this one doesn’t need that much extra oomph. If charts are to be believed it’s up to 1833 lumens at only 13.5 watts for the high density. Flat dome (high intensity) being 1483 lumens at the same wattage.

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I was going to build this light today, have all the parts sitting out, waiting to find out how to figure the sense resistor requirement to make the LD-2 output the correct amperage. Can’t find it, not getting responses to my questions in the wind…

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i can look tomorrow what led4power soldered on mine…

 

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I found most of it, for 4S cells the 750kOhm resistor on the right of the pair needs to be 250kOhm, or 3 of the 750’s stacked.

There’s a formula for figuring the sense resistor, gotta get to work on that…

Picture of the 4S and 3S config changes HERE

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prepared for 4S (tiiiny thingies!)

the sense resistors

hope that helps

 

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If anyone wants to dump some or a couple of a quantity order they buy, let me know and I will buy the extra XHP35’s. Smile

I can plot Vf-amps all the way til they pop if needed, though I imagine someone is probably getting the job done while I say it.

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Yes, that’s the pic I found explaining series cells, but here’s a better explanation directly from LED4POWER

“1.Change 0402 750kOhm->0402 250kOhm on spring side,solder jumper is number 2!
2.Change shunt from 1mOhm->2mOhm
3.Change max. Current set resistor 0603 150kOhm->0603 180kOhm(or 225kOhm if you want 2A).”

This sets up the LD2 to make the correct power level through a change in the shunt as well as the sense resistor on the inside of the board, and a change in how the driver see’s the series stack on the outside of the board.

I have the required components on the way from Mouser. Smile (hate it when I have to stop a build and wait for parts! I forget what I was doing!)

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I've been seriously working on a small booster for about 4-5 days now.  It is easy to copy a reference design and hook up a half-cocked constant-voltage single mode booster, but to make a full-fledged LED driver (constant current, modes, low voltage protection) it is much more involved.  

Here are the issues with most high-powered boost converters that will actually fit on a small board:

  • You need to convert from constant voltage to constant current
    • While you can make CV kinda work, it isn't right for an LED load
    • Add current sense resistor which provides feedback instead of voltage divider
  • You need modes
    • Bias the feedback pin for modes if you want constant current
      • You can switch into different resistors for limited set modes (ala DQG Tiny 26650 boost driver) or;
      • You can use an opamp and RC/LC filter to convert the digital PWM to an analog voltage to bias the feedback pin
    • Otherwise you can use a parallel shunt FET (quick and dirty, but not optimal)
  • You need low voltage protection
    • You can use a uC or discrete voltage cutoff solution to pull enable pin low

Now, take all of that stuff and stick it onto  17mm board with a suitable inductor and keep it from overheating.  Cool

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If you guys are interested I do have one option for the driver here.   Not an ideal solution ( like a killer boost driver would be), but its a start Smile

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/41135

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