XHP-35

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M4D M4X
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grmpf…

big throwback Sad

the driver poped when it went to high Flat Stare
the voltage regulator vaporized…

i converted a king clone to 4S using the original driver as contact plate and measured 16,4V at my plus and minus
hooked up the driver ( which worked when i tested it with a 12v primary (cell from a remote)

 

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led4power
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Could you send me PM with some pictures,to see what exactly happened?

MCP6H01 is rated as 16V opamp,17V absolute max. rating,so it shouldn't burn in theory.

(actually I picked this chip having 2s in mind,3s and 4s combinations are very rare for 17mm driver format;it's very hard to find high voltage IC in very small packages,there are very few higher voltage opamps in sc70 package,but they have high quiescent current).

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Maybe 4 series in LiFePO4 cells would work better with a lower voltage?

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dchomak wrote:

How hard could it be to modify a SRK FET driver to run on 12v? If on board regulation of the components other than the FET could be done, it would be rather simple, right?
Something similar, maybe a little more sophisticated, to the Zener mod.

 

This regulator should be a good way to run the MCU on a DD driver.  It requires a cap on input and on output. The data sheet says proper ESR is critical on the output cap.  It says a resistor value of 500-mΩ to 1-Ω must be used in series with output cap for ceramic caps to simulate ESR.  I have a few on the way to use in 4S buck drivers.  I'll report how they work out, but I don't expect any problems.

http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lm2936.pdf

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AlexGT wrote:
Has anyone done current vs. lumen output tests on this led yet? Can't seem to find any, and would love to see how this emitter performs when overdriven. Thanks!


I don't have exact figures because my sphere is not calibrated to measure this way, but here is some data I compiled today.    

The main reason for the test was I really wanted to see where the dead fall for this emitter was.    I found that I could drive it to 3.5A with no problem, but I still suspected this was too high. 

My guess was that this is 4 XPE dies and from past tests I know that 2.2 is about the max per die for those.     On the SC5 platform we did gain a hair over that but not what I was expecting.   At 2.5A this one is completely tapped out.

This was done with a C4 bin high intensity.

 

Cree XHP-35FCvoltsestimated lumens 
1A24412.8813 
1.5A32713.41090 
2A38113.91270 
2.5A41114.51370 
3A40815.11360 
3.5A33616.21220

 



Again the lumen numbers may not be are not perfect, but the percentage of gain at higher current is going to be very close.    This was also done on a sink that is better than in any flashlight, so that will be a consideration too.

I reflowed it to a copper bar, and set that inside a pan of water.  Very effective.






Honestly I really cant say that I am impressed with this emitter.    Granted if I had a top bin high density vs a 1 bind down high intensity the lumen output would have been a few hundred more.  

I guess I should have read the data sheet more carefully before I got my hopes up with this.

Even if my numbers are a bit skewed ( they could be).    I have de-domed U4 bin XML2s that are properly driven 4ish amps that out perform this emitter.   Both higher lumens and equal or greater lux.    


Better lux next time I guess Smile

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Great job VOB! Thanks for testing these. After playing around with cree’s characterization tool a few weeks ago and comparing with other emitters, I had a feeling these would turn out to be duds. But then, we would never know till someone quantified the results while overdriven for max lumens… something cree falls short of in providing data past its recommended maximums. Thanks again! :bigsmile:

There goes my plans for a 12 × 18650 BTU shocker mod with 3 XHP35’s. Sad

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thanks for the numbers VOB!

looks like i spent money on the wrong horse…. Sad

.

so: what can be driven with a 4S srk clone? Big Smile

 

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VOB, thanks for tackling the extended current chart. I thought we had a good LED here your chart was a 1/3 less than the product chart how ever. One hope left the High Density top bin claim about 1 1/2 times greater out put than the LED bin you tested. Gains in current I think showed the trade off max at about 1.5 amps before gain really slows down. Still 20 watts is a lot to bleed out in a conventional light design. I still would like to see a single cell driver for these voltages as we still have the XHP-50 and 70.

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Excellent data VOB.  Not the news we were hoping for, but hopes don't create lumens without some good hardware to back them up. 

Love the copper bar in water heat sink idea for testing.  Very nice.

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If those numbers are correct, they’re terrible. An XP-L gets the same lumens from half the wattage. Disappointing indeed.

My Favorite Modded Lights: X6R, S8 , X2R , M6, SP03

Major Projects:  Illuminated Tailcap, TripleDown/TripleStack Driver

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According to CREE PTC we should have at 50Celsius - 1178umens, 12.58Vf for XHP35 HI C4 bin.
I would not be surprised if someone else would measure more than 1178 lumens at 1A, you know hose these things are.

Thermal resistance is phenomenal for this LED 1.8C/W, a bit weird to see such weak results when overdriven.

 

Can you measure the exact die size (even if there are like 4 dies in there)?

 

 

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pilotdog68 wrote:
If those numbers are correct, they're terrible. An XP-L gets the same lumens from half the wattage. Disappointing indeed.

Ya, I'm a little disappointed too.    As mentioned my sphere is not perfectly calibrated for this function, but they are going to be close with this emitter.      I tested this in a light too for lux, and also did a visual side by side, which had the XML2 as the winner as well.

In ONE test I was able to squeak out slightly higher lux with the XHP35, but it was nothing major, and the reflectors were slightly different.

 

texas shooter wrote:
One hope left the High Density top bin claim about 1 1/2 times greater out put than the LED bin you tested.



Yes, as fart as lumen output I would still expect this emitter to exceed an XML2 by a slight margin ( 200-400 lumens).

If I can get my hands on a couple of the very top bin high density I would be willing to take another swing at it.

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So what does this mean for Josiah?

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Major Projects:  Illuminated Tailcap, TripleDown/TripleStack Driver

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Thank you for the data VOB Beer I was hoping the LED would do better… :_(

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What are the physical dimensions of the die of the XHP-35? Is it the same size as a XM-L2 die?

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Success! :bigsmile:

Success! I fixed up the LD-2 like Neven said, put an 180KOhm sense resistor on it… mounted it to a large copper disc that then fit in my Maxtoch that came with an SST-50. (It’s unbranded, I’ll have to look up the model)

Running 4 Sanyo 18500 flat top lap pulls it does …

0.02A for 80.04 lumens
0.48A for 648.6 lumens
2.39A for 2018.25 lumens.

This is with the XHP-35. I messed up and went by the bond wires reflowing the emitter. BUZZ! Wrong answer!+ On this one, the bond wires go to the side, you have to go by the anode mark on the pads on the bottom of the LED+. I shorted it the first time, couldn’t figure it out so I searched the datasheet then double checked the physical emitter and sure enough, the first time I put the pads across the Noctigon.

Works, tickled to death, but have the 3 modes and I put moon components on it. Have a feeling there’s something I’ve forgotten…

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DB Custom wrote:
Success! :bigsmile:

2.39A for 2018.25 lumens.

Very nice indeed! :bigsmile: Will you be creating a build thread for this one?

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Just got lux readings, mind you I didn’t bother to charge the little 18500’s first….

331.75Kcd for 1151.96M throw, and I haven’t even fine tuned the focus! This reflector has a wide base, I’m using a 20mm Noctigon at the moment, so I can’t get the reflector to sit down on the mcpcb like the HI series seems to prefer. I’ve got a ring showing from the thickness of the reflector at the emitter opening, but all in all it’s pretty amazing for this kind of die! It acts like a much smaller die surface actually. I’m impressed where I was expecting to be disappointed.

I didn’t take pics along the way or anything, went out of town today and came home to find the components I needed to modify the LD-2 had arrived in the mail, jumped on it and got it done after figuring out how to re-flow this odd emitter.

Remember DO NOT GO BY THE BOND WIRES! Reflow it according to the anode mark on the base. (Actually the thermal pad has a triangular cut out on the anode side)

texas shooter
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DB Custom wrote:
Success! :bigsmile:

Success! I fixed up the LD-2 like Neven said, put an 180KOhm sense resistor on it… mounted it to a large copper disc that then fit in my Maxtoch that came with an SST-50. (It’s unbranded, I’ll have to look up the model)

Running 4 Sanyo 18500 flat top lap pulls it does …

0.02A for 80.04 lumens
0.48A for 648.6 lumens
2.39A for 2018.25 lumens.

This is with the XHP-35. I messed up and went by the bond wires reflowing the emitter. BUZZ! Wrong answer!+ On this one, the bond wires go to the side, you have to go by the anode mark on the pads on the bottom of the LED+. I shorted it the first time, couldn’t figure it out so I searched the datasheet then double checked the physical emitter and sure enough, the first time I put the pads across the Noctigon.

Works, tickled to death, but have the 3 modes and I put moon components on it. Have a feeling there’s something I’ve forgotten…

Which XHP-35? HI or HD and bin?

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HI, the first one’s Mouser had, they were on order and just came in the other day.

941-XHP35AH10D0BC4E3
XHP35A-H1-0000-0D0BC40E3
Neutral White, 475lm

I pulled the 20mm Noctigon and used a 32mm Noctigon soldered to a copper disc of the same thickness. So now the HI sits on 1/4” of copper that fills the pill of the light. Took a little trial and error to get the nice hot spot back but in the end I got it. And the base of the reflector sits higher than I would have figured, with this reflector anyway.

This 5000K is a nice white with a hint of the warm side. Crazy that the hot spot is so unified, no sign of it being 4 dies whatsoever.

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XHP35 HI C4
Comparing results from this thread and what is available on CREE PTC.
 
VOB 2.5A - 1370 lumens
Dale 2.39A - 2018 lumens

 

Dale 0.48A - 648.6 lumens

CREE PTC 50C 0.45A - 633 lumens

 

It looks Dale's number are kind of matching CREE's at around 0.45A current and 50C, not using the unrealistic 25C numbers which generally are used.

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Hikelite wrote:
VOB 2.5A - 1370 lumens
Dale 2.39A - 2018 lumens

 

Dale 0.48A - 648.6 lumens

CREE PTC 50C 0.45A - 633 lumens

 

It looks Dale's number are kind of matching CREE's at around 0.45A current.



LOL well I have to say that's a little embarrassing.    It may well be that I am further out of calibration than I though when using the bare emitter on a slug.

Althought the lux testing I did had nothing to do with this.   I still got nearly identical from the de-domed XML2 U4 as I did from the XHP-35


Dale are you using a sphere or one of the light pipes?     Did you have to make any adjustment to your divide by for this test?

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pilotdog68 wrote:
So what does this mean for Josiah?


I'm not really sure yet.   The fact remains it does have an amazing beam.    Nice hot spot and good throw, I guess I was just expecting a lot more is all.   

In Him (Jesus Christ) was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
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VOB, the more data from more people the better.

Maybe you guys can accurately measure the die (the multi-de) size of the XHP35, it is exactly XM-L2 size or bigger?

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vestureofblood wrote:

pilotdog68 wrote:
So what does this mean for Josiah?


I’m not really sure yet.   The fact remains it does have an amazing beam.    Nice hot spot and good throw, I guess I was just expecting a lot more is all.   

It’s easy to know what twice the lumens is going to look like. Take a second identical light, point it at the same spot and turn it on. To me, it’s never an “OMG” difference, but it is a difference. It is easy to have too high of an expectation and if that is the case, it is easy to be dissappointed. Nevertheless, the XP35 will be a lot brighter, go for it!

I know that second identical light test sounds obvious, but how many have never thought of doing that?

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Hikelite wrote:

Maybe you guys can accurately measure the die (the multi-de) size of the XHP35, it is exactly XM-L2 size or bigger?



I get about .105" (2.66mm)with my calipers for the total die size of the XHP-35.

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i paused my MM18 review and try to test my xhp35 in my lightbox at different amps…

since i have no adjustable power supply i think i try to DD it with different length and thickness cables Wink

my setup seems to read too high i am afraid ( a 1000 lumen Fenix gets around 1200 in there)
a quick test of the xhp35 showed near 3k Lm @2.5 A
(-20% = 2400 Lm which is still good)

 

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vestureofblood wrote:

Hikelite wrote:

Maybe you guys can accurately measure the die (the multi-de) size of the XHP35, it is exactly XM-L2 size or bigger?



I get about .105" (2.66mm)with my calipers for the total die size of the XHP-35.

Thanks, that means a larger die size than XM-L (2mm)

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Measuring a mule is ALWAYS going to be much different than measuring a thoroughbred.

The reflector collimating output makes all the difference in the world in how the sphere or lightbox reads the result.

I use a light pipe as built and calibrated by manxbuggy1 and rdrfronty. They used 20 something ANSI lights to determine the multiplier, which for me is .345 x the meter reading. If I have to figure anything and shift or make adjustments, then the game is over and they’ve already turned the lights off cause that ain’t happening! Silly

Yes, these measurements are in a built light, I should have gotten beam shots last night but was exhausted after a very long and hot day out and about.

PS: Let me also add that holding a Couri D01 reflector over this emitter gives spectacular results with an even tighter hot spot and very smooth spill. Wink

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vestureofblood wrote:

Hikelite wrote:
VOB 2.5A - 1370 lumens
Dale 2.39A - 2018 lumens

 

Dale 0.48A - 648.6 lumens

CREE PTC 50C 0.45A - 633 lumens

 

It looks Dale's number are kind of matching CREE's at around 0.45A current.



LOL well I have to say that's a little embarrassing.    It may well be that I am further out of calibration than I though when using the bare emitter on a slug.

Althought the lux testing I did had nothing to do with this.   I still got nearly identical from the de-domed XML2 U4 as I did from the XHP-35


Dale are you using a sphere or one of the light pipes?     Did you have to make any adjustment to your divide by for this test?

VOB,did you drive led with some current source,or did you adjust pwm of DD driver for each current?

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