XHP-35

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M4D M4X
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Well - i have some numbers...

 

my not scientific "setup" (man! - i really need a 30/20 bench power supply....)

 

i used several cells in 3S and 4S to simulate different input voltages (due to sag)

(the 3,3A could only be reached with full HE2) 

 

i think my "lightbox" given readings are about 15-20% high (1000 Fenix-Lumens are displayed as ~1200)

VoltmA"Lumen"
10,51943
11,03110263
11,955201050
125901170
12,126201250
13,717002560
13,919002700
14,1222302900
14,525003000
14,927003100
15,229803200
15,833002800

 

as Graph:

Volts from left to right are meassured at the cells

 

numbers are taken after 10 seconds (fast drop due to heat above 2 A !)

i let the LED and copper heatsink cool down to ~25° after each meassurement

i tried severall cables and even SMD resistors (holding by hand between the contacts) so get Amp-readings around 2A - but i ran out of time.

 

i think led4power guesstimated the sweet spot at 2.5A just perfect Wink

 

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vestureofblood
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led4power wrote:

vestureofblood wrote:

Hikelite wrote:
VOB 2.5A - 1370 lumens
Dale 2.39A - 2018 lumens

 

Dale 0.48A - 648.6 lumens

CREE PTC 50C 0.45A - 633 lumens

 

It looks Dale's number are kind of matching CREE's at around 0.45A current.



LOL well I have to say that's a little embarrassing.    It may well be that I am further out of calibration than I though when using the bare emitter on a slug.

Althought the lux testing I did had nothing to do with this.   I still got nearly identical from the de-domed XML2 U4 as I did from the XHP-35


Dale are you using a sphere or one of the light pipes?     Did you have to make any adjustment to your divide by for this test?

VOB,did you drive led with some current source,or did you adjust pwm of DD driver for each current?




I have a mastech bench power supply.     

Right now I have a U4 XML2 in the gas for de-doming.   Tomorrow I will run this in my setup and see what I get apples to apples.     I will do a test both on a copper sink and inside identical lights.




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DB Custom
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FWIW, the light I used is a Maxtoch SN50. The Luminus SST-50 had to go, of course, and I had already put an SST-90 in it. This Cree XHP-35 is tighter, whiter, and more powerful and probably a good deal more efficient. Wink

Edit: Beamshots…

First, a comparison shot… my EDC Eagle Eye X6 Triple with V2 1A XP-L HI emitters and a polished CUTE-3 optic…

And the same scene, same settings, with the Maxtoch SN50 and XHP35, using LED4POWER’s LD-2

The above 2 shots were at 28mm, here’s the XHP-35 zoomed in to 112mm for detail…

And aimed at a little barn 610 yds away, first at 28mm then at 112mm

Works for me! Smile

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Oh yeah, forgot to say… the X6 Triple is making ~3880 lumens while the SN50 XHP-35 is doing 2060.

I can’t believe the beam this XHP-35 is making, this isn’t exactly the best host for this but it’s still pretty dang nice, I can only imagine it being that much better in a bigger better reflector.

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has anyone a word to my results?

 

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M4D M4X, looks like you did a fairly exhaustive testing set on this and other than the lumens reading on the high side it all looks fabulous! I wish I could chart like that! Smile

Did you get the lumens numbers with the emitter in a light? Or how did you derive those? Do you use a lightbox or sphere? Curious, is all.

I used the components Neven suggested, except for the resistor at the moon set, I didn’t have the correct one and frankly I don’t like a super low moon on a light like the SN50 anyway. So the 32 lumen moon is fine with me. I used a 270Ohm in place of the 154Ohm.

I stacked 3 (I think, 2 tall and 1 beside em laying on it’s side) of the 750KOhm resistors at the battery set-up side and engaged the 2 cell button. Then, with a 180KOhm sense resistor (I had already pulled the stock one, so I put on a new one) and the new big resistor at 2M instead of 1M, I got really close in-light reading’s to what was expected. I didn’t want to push it REALLY hard, but wanted it up there fairly close to top end. So far so good. I’ve run the light 5-10 minutes at a time and it seems just fine. When all was done with the assembly and I was happy with it, I smothered the inside of the board with Arctic Alumina Thermal Adhesive and topped it with a new 16mm Noctigon, masked side out. The driver itself is soldered into a thick copper disc (same thickness as a Noctigon), as this light requires like a 24mm driver (didn’t measure, just cut to fit) so the driver has heat sinking through the thick copper adapter it’s soldered to, which in turn is clamped into the lights heavy pill with a thick brass retaining ring.

I have no idea if all that will help anything, but it occurred to me to give it the benefit of doubt and add that copper for a bit of a sink. Whatever, it’s working and I’m very pleased with it.

The light has a 3 cell tube, so 4 18500’s fit nicely. I don’t know what it’ll do with hotter cells, but you’re showing the best output from HE-2 or HE-4 cells. Are we giving it too much Voltage with 4 big dog cells? That’s what I was afraid of, so I went with the Sanyo lap pulls. Figured they’d sag pretty much at load and then be within reasonable realms for this modification.

vestureofblood
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M4D M4X wrote:
has anyone a word to my results?
 

Ya I thought it was good too.    I know what a pain it is to do that stuff without a bench supply, I had to do it like that for a long time too.  

I am curious to what your set up is too.      Also what are you doing to extrapolate the lumen number from you foot candle reading?



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on my pictures cou see all Wink

first one shows the bare led on noctigon srewed to a copper pc heatsink

the cardboardbox is my lightbox (turned inside outto have the white surface inside)
the lightmeter is looking to the back where the led is pointing…
so its kinda “ceilingbouncelumens“

the graph comes from google tables and is screenshotted Big Smile

 

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Sweet! Nice thinking “outside the box” Wink

Reading lumens from a mule configuration is always much different than reading from an assembled light. The collimation changes things, as do the losses from the actual reflector and lens. So it becomes somewhat confusing trying to relate the different methodology.

I’d like to see the XHP-35 in a BIG light like the SR-90 Intimidator, but don’t want to change mine again. lol Maybe a TK61? The Nitecore TM36 also has a massive solidly made aluminum reflector that would do well here I think, getting the 12V set-up would be the issue, boost driver? Extension tubes? At any rate, I’m looking forward to seeing where this one goes…

Edit: Aw man! Y’all are making me think things I shouldn’t be thinking! I actually DO have a second tube for my Intimidator, could 2 sets of 6 18650’s (3P2S x 2) be made to power this 12V XHP-35? Why yes! Yes it could! :bigsmile: And the massive reflector should give excellent throw with this emitter, right? So if I can find someone to make me an adapter collar to allow the two tubes to be mated….

Edit II: Duh! There are storage caps for the second tube, the solid end could be cut off and thus, a threaded collar born. I really really like the SR90 as it is, with it’s 96CRI XHP-70 and Illumination Machines 5-90 reflector! Why me? Silly Lord help me…

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Or: http://www.tmart.com/Lenser-P14-LED-Flashlight_p236578.html with 4 × 14500.

Flashlight designers should look at lighthouses and pottery.
这些谁设计的手电筒应该看灯塔,以及在陶器。

DB Custom
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Not sure how that’s applicable Fritz. A plastic light is a bad idea for high output, and we need 4 cells in series to get over the 12+A draw of the XHP-35. What am I missing?

texas shooter
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DB Custom wrote:
Not sure how that’s applicable Fritz. A plastic light is a bad idea for high output, and we need 4 cells in series to get over the 12+A draw of the XHP-35. What am I missing?

Than how about this one with 14500’s in series max say 1.5 amps. http://www.illumn.com/flashlights/other-brands/starry-light-sa-22-880-lu... For those of use with pockets.

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That one might just work, but I’m not sure what it would gain. If it’s doing 800+ lumens to start with and you swap in a XHP-35 at or under 1.5A then you would only gain, in theory, a few hundred lumens. Almost not enough to be able to see it. And it wouldn’t be easy, most likely.

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What about the Convoy L4? You can get an extension tube for it, run 4 18350’s and the reflector is nice enough that it should put out a surprising beam. The light has a tail clicky for lock-out, a side e-switch for modes, so while it wouldn’t be exactly easy it will take Neven’s LD-2 (I know this because I put an LD-1 in the L4)

So, while the XHP-35 is showing an impressive potential, it’s rapidly becoming apparent that it will take a rare set of conditions in a host to properly utilize it. The Fenix TK series has stackable tubes with carriers, so the carrier could be modified to 4S and a second tube also modified would extend run time. With that huge reflector (even though it’s plastic) this emitter should really rock!

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i hope i can finish my build the next days….

i don’t want to tell to much early because if i fail… Wink

 

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texas shooter
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I bet the Starry Light SA-22, 4 X AA with HD XHP-35 top bin LED might push out 2000+ lumens on a 1.5 amp driver.

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DB Custom wrote:
Not sure how that’s applicable Fritz. A plastic light is a bad idea for high output, and we need 4 cells in series to get over the 12+A draw of the XHP-35. What am I missing?

This is a P series, not L, so it is aluminum except for the battery holder. It takes 4 x AA cells, so 4 × 14500 would fit.

It comes with an XR-E, probably why it is offered for this price. So it is no harder putting an XHP-35 and 14500s in it than to put an XM-L2 or XP-L and AAs. The mechanical driver should work as is, or one could change the resistor values. It is about half as compact as 4 × 18350, but 14500 is a more common cell size.

Flashlight designers should look at lighthouses and pottery.
这些谁设计的手电筒应该看灯塔,以及在陶器。

DB Custom
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The cells are parallel though, running a single cree emitter. We need series for 16.8 volts, not parallel for 4.2V. Not saying it can’t be done, but it’ll be a dang sight more difficult than swapping in an XM-L2.

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The P14 is 4 s AA for 3V to the LED and 3V for stray and driver resistances.
So the same holder will take four 14500s in series to give a nominal 14.8 V, or 16.8 at full charge. 14.8 nominal minus 12 nominal leaves 2.8 V for stray and driver resistance.
My replacement XP-L came today, so I may have more on the P14 soon.

Flashlight designers should look at lighthouses and pottery.
这些谁设计的手电筒应该看灯塔,以及在陶器。

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Very interesting, there weren’t any pics or much of any information so I couldn’t see how they were making that work.

I built my second XHP-35 this evening. And this one is a sweet light, if it holds up. Again, I used the LED4POWER LD-2 driver, with 250KOhms on the right hand resistor at the cell choice set-up and mode 2 soldered. I didn’t use moon on this one, so it’s 3 levels. The 1M resistor is changed to 2M, the stock 180KOhm sense resistor was left in place.

With 4 Efest IMR18350 Purple cells it shows 3.10A at the tail, and the lightbox reads…

327.75 lumens
976.35 lumens
2363.25 lumens

302.75Kcd for 1100M throw.

The host? Olight M2X UT Javelot. Smile It had an extension tube and the 4 Efests fit right in so I took a chance. lol It’s not as tight a beam as the de-domed XM-L2 was, but it is still a nice beam profile and I’m about to head outside to check it out, just finished it.

I hope it keeps working because the driver is JB Welded to the contact board and totally engulfed, filling all available space in the driver cavity and it went in curing so if it fails the light will be trash.

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Great output for LED size.

Flashlight designers should look at lighthouses and pottery.
这些谁设计的手电筒应该看灯塔,以及在陶器。

vestureofblood
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Dale, if you have time could you possibly also run an XML2 controlled test at a few different check points?

I ran some tests with the emitters in my setup the way it was designed to hold them, and also got higher numbers than with my first test ( although the dead fall remained the same).    In any case if I could get a bit more data to compare to it would be helpful.

If you dont have time or what ever I understand though Smile

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mmoro
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I have a question:

is this led driveable with a normal 12v led driver (700ma)? like the one for the 10w COB?

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Can the XHP-35 HI outperform a Dedomed XP-G2 in throw in a aspherical setup ?

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i think if lumen per mm2 are higher – i think hope so

die is bigger, but lumens are higher..
but on my phone its pita to search numbers Wink

 

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gamezawy wrote:
Can the XHP-35 HI outperform a Dedomed XP-G2 in throw in a aspherical setup ?


I guess it depends on what you mean by out perform.    Surface brightness= Lux in this case if all other factors are the same.     Its been my experiance that with an aspherical set up when you go to a larger die provided both LEDs are top bin (ie roughly the same surface brightness) that you get about the same lux, but with a larger hot spot and more lumens.

For example if you have a top bin XPE2 and a top bin XPG2 both driven to the emitter max in the same light you will get only slightly more lux ( if any) from the XPG2 than the XPE.   However you will get a larger hot spot at the same distance and more lumens.

So if the XPE2 is performing at 179,000 lux you will get a very similar number with the XPG2.


The only reason I would thing you stand to gain any lux in an aspherical setup with the XHP-35 is that is comes on the SC5 platform which your XPG2 does not, so over all surface brightness with this emitter driven to max would most likely be higher.    

I have not completed testing with this yet so I have no apples to apples yet though.

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Dale,

One more question.   Do you happen  to have a lux reading on the one you did with the courui reflector?

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I only held the Courui reflector over it by hand, didn’t put one in a Courui. I was just looking to see how the different reflector design would affect performance as the reflector in the SN50 is one of those styled for the Luminus SST-50 and not really advantageous for a throwy style emitter. The deeper Courui big head reflector tightened up the beam profile considerably, so in a thrower light this emitter makes more sense.

I don’t have a bench power supply so I don’t really have a way to run numbers on efficiency and output at the different current levels.

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i plan to wire the unburnt LD-2 (2S configured) to the middle of the 4 cells getting 8.4 V and only wiring the LED to 16.8 V.

lets see how that works

after that i choose reflector or lens

 

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I think this light UltraFire 1226 if modded for 4S1P will be nice with this emitter

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