XHP-35

215 posts / 0 new
Last post
ReyLight
ReyLight's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 days 23 hours ago
Joined: 09/04/2012 - 02:35
Posts: 2056
Location: 1200km away from home.

vestureofblood wrote:

3s is definitely not going to cut it.   Not enough voltage to get any real power out of this emitter.

What zener and resistor did you use to mod? 

Formerly known as: WWEFANS

bibihang
bibihang's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 19 hours ago
Joined: 11/10/2011 - 09:32
Posts: 2387
Location: Malaysia

Not sure if this has been asked before, when one uses a linear driver to drive the 12V XHP-35 emitter, wouldn’t the 4S batteries kill the XHP-35 immediately due to the extra 4V?

M4D M4X
M4D M4X's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 44 min ago
Joined: 03/19/2014 - 05:17
Posts: 7575
Location: Austria (GMT + 1)

not really…

did you read my graphic?
for 3A that led needs 15V (when cooling is good it is surviveable i hope)

 

already member of M4DM4X.com ?

the best deals are waiting for YOU!

 

before you buy elsewhere mail me: MARTIN@M4DM4X.COM - i will try to save you money!

bibihang
bibihang's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 19 hours ago
Joined: 11/10/2011 - 09:32
Posts: 2387
Location: Malaysia

M4D M4X wrote:
not really…

did you read my graphic?
for 3A that led needs 15V (when cooling is good it is surviveable i hope)


Yes I did read your test graph (thank you for that!), and yes I do realize that the Vf of the LED would increase as the current increase, but how about when the LED is in low mode (i.e. 0.1A or lower) while the Vf is still around 12V only?
pilotdog68
pilotdog68's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 05/30/2013 - 23:31
Posts: 6424
Location: Held against my will in IOWA, USA

Apparently the XHP35 is just 4 XP-E2 dies in series. So each die is seeing 4.2v, which we do all the time

My Favorite Modded Lights: X6R, S8 , X2R , M6, SP03

Major Projects:  Illuminated Tailcap, TripleDown/TripleStack Driver

bibihang
bibihang's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 19 hours ago
Joined: 11/10/2011 - 09:32
Posts: 2387
Location: Malaysia

pilotdog68 wrote:
Apparently the XHP35 is just 4 XP-E2 dies in series. So each die is seeing 4.2v, which we do all the time

I think that makes sense, thank you.
bibihang
bibihang's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 19 hours ago
Joined: 11/10/2011 - 09:32
Posts: 2387
Location: Malaysia

Anyone has tried to mod the Acebeam K50 with this XHP 35 emitter? The K50 does look like a good candidate for it as it has 4S batteries configuration and comes with a big reflector.

3000 lumens, possibly 250+kcd, and that really sounds like a HID flashlight.

Kenjii
Kenjii's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 months 1 day ago
Joined: 01/28/2013 - 05:46
Posts: 277
Location: Cologne, Germany

Hi,

is this FET-Driver in 4S setup suitable for the XHP35 HI or will it get too much current?

http://www.mtnelectronics.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=67_11...

Greetings

Kenjii

M4D M4X
M4D M4X's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 44 min ago
Joined: 03/19/2014 - 05:17
Posts: 7575
Location: Austria (GMT + 1)

in my test i DDed the emitter…

a driver just lowers the Amps at 4S…

maybe 4S2P might kill it Big Smile

 

already member of M4DM4X.com ?

the best deals are waiting for YOU!

 

before you buy elsewhere mail me: MARTIN@M4DM4X.COM - i will try to save you money!

vestureofblood
vestureofblood's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 20 hours ago
Joined: 08/17/2012 - 15:21
Posts: 1805
Location: Missouri

WWEFANS wrote:

vestureofblood wrote:

3s is definitely not going to cut it.   Not enough voltage to get any real power out of this emitter.

 

What resistor did you use to zener mod?  Still the 200r?

 

WWEFANS wrote:

vestureofblood wrote:

3s is definitely not going to cut it.   Not enough voltage to get any real power out of this emitter.

What zener and resistor did you use to mod? 



The only change I had to make from the 2S board was to upgrade my 10uf cap from a 10v to a 16V.   All my other components were already 16V or more.

Initially I ordered the 16v caps from Richard, but since you asked about the other components I updated my bom with a 16v cap.    Here is the list.    I have not tried the 16v cap in this bom yet, but it has exactly the values as the ones I got from RMM so it should work.

http://www.mouser.com/ProjectManager/ProjectDetail.aspx?AccessID=96d1691809


These are the boards I use.
https://oshpark.com/profiles/ForgivenMatt

 

In Him (Jesus Christ) was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
http://asflashlights.com/ Everyday Carry Flashlights, plus Upgrades for Maglite.

vestureofblood
vestureofblood's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 20 hours ago
Joined: 08/17/2012 - 15:21
Posts: 1805
Location: Missouri

bibihang wrote:
Not sure if this has been asked before, when one uses a linear driver to drive the 12V XHP-35 emitter, wouldn't the 4S batteries kill the XHP-35 immediately due to the extra 4V?


Its been my experience that XHP-70s on a 12V board can be driven directly on about any 4 cells.   The XHP-35 I have found in some cases you need to dial the PWM back just a hair  or use a small resistor. 
In some setups like when I used 4 x 26650s I changed the PWM value from 255 to like 225 to take the current down a hair.    With perfect heat sinking 2.5A is really the max for this emitter.

IIRC using 4x 18350s I think I ran it wide open at 255.   The lower powered cell in combination with the tail spring/switch was enough to keep the current where it was need.

All of the above info assumes direct bond thermal path ( sinkpad/noctigon) and good thermal path etc from there.

In Him (Jesus Christ) was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
http://asflashlights.com/ Everyday Carry Flashlights, plus Upgrades for Maglite.

vestureofblood
vestureofblood's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 20 hours ago
Joined: 08/17/2012 - 15:21
Posts: 1805
Location: Missouri

Kenjii wrote:
Hi, is this FET-Driver in 4S setup suitable for the XHP35 HI or will it get too much current? http://www.mtnelectronics.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=67_11... Greetings Kenjii


Kenjii I think RMM uses all 16V components so you should be good to go with that.    Like I said above it will depend on what cells you use to power it.    If you get more than 2.5A to the emitter you may need to either reset the PWM or add a small resistor.


Another way this LED could be used and current could be set to what ever is needed would be to use a zener modded 7135 based driver like a nanjg 105.
http://asflashlights.com/en/-diy-parts/34-3000ma-led-driver-board-custom...

You could pull a chip or two off one of these and add the zener diode.   Then regardless of what cells you used the max output would be stable.   The capacitor on this might also have to be changed though because I think they are 10V.

In Him (Jesus Christ) was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
http://asflashlights.com/ Everyday Carry Flashlights, plus Upgrades for Maglite.

RMM
RMM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 11 hours ago
Joined: 07/23/2013 - 13:47
Posts: 4006
Location: USA

Has anyone ever run 4S into 7135s?  If they are even doing minimal regulation they will burn up muy rapido.  f=

Also, 7135s are only rated for around 7V output.  We get away with 2S cells, but 4S?  I guess someone will have to try to find out, but I think you'll probably get some magic smoke.  

Mountain Electronics : batteries, Noctigon, and much more! What's new? 

Rufusbduck
Rufusbduck's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 months 3 days ago
Joined: 04/04/2012 - 15:34
Posts: 10389
Location: Golden state

RMM wrote:

Has anyone ever run 4S into 7135s?  If they are even doing minimal regulation they will burn up muy rapido.  f=

Also, 7135s are only rated for around 7V output.  We get away with 2S cells, but 4S?  I guess someone will have to try to find out, but I think you’ll probably get some magic smoke.  


Yes, I have. Used an LD 2981 low drop out voltage regulator instead of Zener but the 7135’s were remote mounted on a separate heat sink as they were taking around 2V overhead. The biggest problem with series cells is the huge differential between full and empty cells, 16.8V down to 11V. It’s that 5.8V differential that makes 7135’s unworkable.

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

Rufusbduck
Rufusbduck's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 months 3 days ago
Joined: 04/04/2012 - 15:34
Posts: 10389
Location: Golden state

How about using the dual pwm set up with a resistor+7135 on one and FET on the other.

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

bibihang
bibihang's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 19 hours ago
Joined: 11/10/2011 - 09:32
Posts: 2387
Location: Malaysia

Thanks for the information. If I am gonna zener-mod a stock Nanjg 105C driver to work with the XHP 35, do I only need to change the capacitor into 10uf cap to a 16V one?

The extra resistor and the zener diode still remains R200 and 4.3V 200mW respectively?

EDIT: Just read Richard’s comment, and how about replacing all the 7135 on the Nanjg 105C with a single FET?

vestureofblood
vestureofblood's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 20 hours ago
Joined: 08/17/2012 - 15:21
Posts: 1805
Location: Missouri

RMM wrote:

Has anyone ever run 4S into 7135s?  If they are even doing minimal regulation they will burn up muy rapido.  f=

Also, 7135s are only rated for around 7V output.  We get away with 2S cells, but 4S?  I guess someone will have to try to find out, but I think you'll probably get some magic smoke.  

You may be right.   Now that I think about it the most I have done this with was 3 cells to 3 emitters and I did it slightly different even then.

Doing this it worked.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?201392-Poorman-Mutli-...

4 may be a touch too much.

In Him (Jesus Christ) was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
http://asflashlights.com/ Everyday Carry Flashlights, plus Upgrades for Maglite.

RMM
RMM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 11 hours ago
Joined: 07/23/2013 - 13:47
Posts: 4006
Location: USA

If you are using a zener mod then a 10V capacitor will still work because the zener diode limits the capacitor voltage.  

Mountain Electronics : batteries, Noctigon, and much more! What's new? 

bibihang
bibihang's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 19 hours ago
Joined: 11/10/2011 - 09:32
Posts: 2387
Location: Malaysia

RMM wrote:

If you are using a zener mod then a 10V capacitor will still work because the zener diode limits the capacitor voltage.  


So the normal zener-mod with R200 resistor and the 4.3V 200mW zener diode would be able to work with 4 batteries in series to drive an XHP 35? Using FET driver.
ImA4Wheelr
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 8 hours ago
Joined: 02/03/2013 - 14:51
Posts: 7909
Location: SC

VOB wrote:

RMM wrote:

Has anyone ever run 4S into 7135s?  If they are even doing minimal regulation they will burn up muy rapido.  f=

Also, 7135s are only rated for around 7V output.  We get away with 2S cells, but 4S?  I guess someone will have to try to find out, but I think you'll probably get some magic smoke.  

You may be right.   Now that I think about it the most I have done this with was 3 cells to 3 emitters and I did it slightly different even then.

Doing this it worked.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?201392-Poorman-Mutli-...

4 may be a touch too much.

I don't believe you are subjecting a 7135 to 16.8 volts when you hook up to 4S cells.  You have to take into account how much voltage is being used by the emitters.  For instance, when you hook up 4S emitters directly to 4S cells, you are not subjecting each emitter to 16.8 volts. Each emitter demands a certain amount of voltage for the current available.  Cell voltage sags as current increases an equilibrium is found.

When current is limited by the 7135's, there is less sag.  So an excess voltage situation is created.  This is the voltage that the 7135's see.  The data sheet says voltage limits specified are relative to ground.  That is just my theory and not based on anything I have read.  So it could be completely wrong.

Kloepper Knife Works
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 5 months ago
Joined: 12/07/2014 - 21:28
Posts: 1405
Location: Lincoln, NE
ImA4Wheelr wrote:

VOB wrote:

RMM wrote:

Has anyone ever run 4S into 7135s?  If they are even doing minimal regulation they will burn up muy rapido.  f=

Also, 7135s are only rated for around 7V output.  We get away with 2S cells, but 4S?  I guess someone will have to try to find out, but I think you’ll probably get some magic smoke.  

You may be right.   Now that I think about it the most I have done this with was 3 cells to 3 emitters and I did it slightly different even then.

Doing this it worked.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?201392-Poorman-Mutli-…

4 may be a touch too much.

I don’t believe you are subjecting a 7135 to 16.8 volts when you hook up to 4S cells.  You have to take into account how much voltage is being used by the emitters.  For instance, when you hook up 4S emitters directly to 4S cells, you are not subjecting each emitter to 16.8 volts. Each emitter demands a certain amount of voltage for the current available.  Cell voltage sags as current increases an equilibrium is found.

When current is limited by the 7135’s, there is less sag.  So an excess voltage situation is created.  This is the voltage that the 7135’s see.  The data sheet says voltage limits specified are relative to ground.  That is just my theory and not based on anything I have read.  So it could be completely wrong.

That makes complete sense. The voltage across each 7135 is going to change as the battery drains, as long as the Vf of the LED is within 7v of the input voltage all should be fine.

PWM is where I start to get hazy, with the driver still putting out short high current bursts to create a lower RMS power, will the 7135’s act like they’re driving an output with a lower Vf, or will the interaction be just like when PWM = 100%, just pulsed?

If it doesn’t act like just a pulsed version of the full output, that could be why they might die in a setup like we’re talking about.

ImA4Wheelr
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 8 hours ago
Joined: 02/03/2013 - 14:51
Posts: 7909
Location: SC

I don't understand that aspect either.  I know that 7135's hate heat and they run cooler as lower PWM's.  I guess the breaks between on pulses allows them to cool off some.

I really can't picture 7135's dissipating 7 volts though.  Even 1 volt gets them real hot.  Proper heat sinking is critical.

vestureofblood
vestureofblood's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 20 hours ago
Joined: 08/17/2012 - 15:21
Posts: 1805
Location: Missouri

My bad.   RMM was right.    Just now I tried this with 4S behind the zener modded 7135 driver + an XHP-70 and it does not work.   I was never able to get more than 600ma from the driver, and the modes would not change.

I also tried this with 4 gen 1 XMLs and the poor mans setup and the result is not much better.    I was able to get full power but only for a short time and after a bit I was not able to change modes again.     

Neither setup killed the driver, but it did get hot very fast.    In the XHP-70 test I  even had it pressed into a copper slug similar to a C8 pill.   Running it like this for long would have killed it I think.


In Him (Jesus Christ) was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
http://asflashlights.com/ Everyday Carry Flashlights, plus Upgrades for Maglite.

Rufusbduck
Rufusbduck's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 months 3 days ago
Joined: 04/04/2012 - 15:34
Posts: 10389
Location: Golden state

The 7V limitation really only applies to the Vdd pin since the voltage drop from led- to ground is whatever is left after deducting the led Vf. There isn’t a hard ceiling as far as I could find other than above 700mW heat sinking becomes critical to maintain operation. 700mW translates to a drop of 2V. The other fine print item I’ve mentioned before is noting the benefit of up to 1000^2 mm of trace area for heat sinking each chip. Pretty sure there isn’t that much trace area available unless you mount each one on a 12.6mm board with nothing else but copper on each side(pi x 12.6 × 12.6 × 2 = ~1000). Given adequate heat sinking they can be driven much harder but I don’t believe they can share that sink with another heat source unless it is sized for both.

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

Rufusbduck
Rufusbduck's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 months 3 days ago
Joined: 04/04/2012 - 15:34
Posts: 10389
Location: Golden state

This seems ideally suited for a MTNmax driver set to 2-3A though.

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

borked
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 4 months ago
Joined: 08/02/2013 - 07:43
Posts: 537
Location: Terra Australis Incognita

What eventuated out of this?
An ideal LED for a C8 and single 18650?
Or more a realistic option for a TM16 with quad XHP35?
Perhaps the TM16 is more suited to XHP50-70?

I dunno, you lot would, right ?

L4M4
L4M4's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 hours 8 min ago
Joined: 12/08/2013 - 13:43
Posts: 1287
Location: Germany

Well, the XHP35 is a ~12V LED, so you need either a good boost driver or at least 3 Cells.

So, this isn’t a LED for most flashlights, it’s more made for cars and other 12V facilities

M4D M4X
M4D M4X's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 44 min ago
Joined: 03/19/2014 - 05:17
Posts: 7575
Location: Austria (GMT + 1)

i built a xhp50 TM16 Wink

but the mcpcb died – noe i have copper dtp on the way to finish that project sometimes

 

already member of M4DM4X.com ?

the best deals are waiting for YOU!

 

before you buy elsewhere mail me: MARTIN@M4DM4X.COM - i will try to save you money!

MEM
MEM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 2 weeks ago
Joined: 03/18/2015 - 00:51
Posts: 294
Location: Amongst Cornfields, Illinois, USA

L4M4 wrote:
Well, the XHP35 is a ~12V LED, so you need either a good boost driver or at least 3 Cells.

So, this isn’t a LED for most flashlights, it’s more made for cars and other 12V facilities

I know of one light which can possibly benefit from this LED. The XHP35 can do some amazing things, just in rather unconventional situations. The hi-CRI at 5000-6000K is one thing that we often never have access to, but I’ve seen another side to this LED which I am quite interested in.

How many lights currently use a boost that we know of out there?

The TR-S700 is one that does use a boost circuit. It has an amazing hotspot for 7-LEDs. It is also beneficial as the cell count, whether using 1, 2, or 3, doesn’t really effect initial output in the S700. It is just about ready all of the time to get up and go.

I like bright lights, and I cannot lie.

Firelight2
Firelight2's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 23 min ago
Joined: 04/08/2011 - 15:17
Posts: 3634
Location: California

Zebralight is selling 1×18650 XHP35 based lights:

SC600 Mk III – now available with XHP35 in both cool and neutral tints.

SC600W Mk3
SC63 – available for preorder in both cool and neutral tints. Supposed to ship at the end of the month.
Zebralight SC63 photo SC6320Series20Flashlight1_zpszgevastg.jpg
SC 63w

If Zebralight can get a sufficient supply of emitters they are also thinking of offering the above lights in 90 CRI XHP35. That would be pretty nice: A tiny SC63-sized light with 1100 lumen output of hi-CRI 5000K light.

Pages