- The Fake-Cree LED Awareness Thread - The new "low" in Budget lights.

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DBSAR
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RMM wrote:

Here is a comparison shot of the two “XM-L” LEDs.  In person, especially installed in a light, the difference is much less noticeable.  

The biggest noticeable difference i can see there is it looks to be a smaller die on the LB clone on the left.

That Canadian flashlight guy & Lantern Guru -Den / DBSARlight

Billy X
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I see square conductive bases under the round wire ends on the phosphor on the Lattice,plain round on Cree.Then two conductive strips(brass?)going up from the two “mark 1“silver squares on the bottom corners.The Cree has a Sanskrit epic poem written on he green base Smile I have a feeling it is best to start practicing recognising the differences now,as the game of cat and mouse,or leapfrog, begins.The best clones can only get harder to spot in the future.

nickelflipper
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Jubeldum wrote:
I’m glad that I bought mine from Mouser.

http://www.latticebright.com/En/cgxl1/2015-06/30/NewsView-220.html

!http://s3.postimg.org/khs8sqaxf/XM_RGBW_1.jpg!

Very disturbing that these clones are heading to market. I can say from the picture that the bond wire orientation appears to be different from the original cree RGBW color leds.

If the led dies are viewed from the perspective of the red die in the upper left corner:
1) Original Cree led bond wires (and grid) are orientated on top and bottom of the individual dies.
2) Fake led bond wires (and grid) are orientated on left and right of at least three of the individual dies if the picture is to be believed.

A recent ebay purchase conforms with the original…. at least for now Smile

Kent

Hikelite
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We all know the forum is watched by a large number of Chinese companies, I do not see why LB hasn't already tracked back this thread and reading how to improve the cloning process of CREE LEDs.

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That’s what I meant by cat and mouse and leapfrog.But,they do not need to fool all of the people all of the time,that’s too dear!90% would do – we just need to be in the 10% in the know.In the end , it is just an evolution of °°°°fire batteries , we don’t touch them,but 90% think they are great value , just like i did at the start Oops

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Hikelite wrote:

We all know the forum is watched by a large number of Chinese companies, I do not see why LB hasn’t already tracked back this thread and reading how to improve the cloning process of CREE LEDs.


Time to ask Sb to add a private subform. Perhaps requiring 100 posts or being a member for two years.
ledoman
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RMM wrote:
Here is a comparison shot of the two "XM-L" LEDs.  In person, especially installed in a light, the difference is much less noticeable.

Thank you for posting those macro pictures. I've checked headlight I got from eBay today claimed it is CREE XM-L T6. Shurely it was LatticeBright led in there. Will see what the seller has to say on this. The LatticeLight led is just a little bit less bright. The PCB is also different than most of others.

itsonlyme
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Wow

DBSAR
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Interesting.. so some of the Latticebright clones actually have their name on the star, while the sellers still “claim” their lights to have CREE emitters.

That Canadian flashlight guy & Lantern Guru -Den / DBSARlight

JamesB
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I recon it’s easier to spot a clone when it’s clearly written on the star

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JamesB wrote:
I recon it’s easier to spot a clone when it’s clearly written on the star

Thanks for the tip!
Wink
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Thanks for the excellent pictures RMM. If I had both leds in front of me in a torch I dont believe I could tell the difference on looks alone. I wonder if LatticeBright do Passports as well?

 

djozz quotes, "it came with chinese lettering that is chinese to me".

                      "My man mousehole needs one too"

old4570 said "I'm not an expert , so don't suffer from any such technical restrictions".

Old-Lumens. Highly admired and cherished member of Budget Light Forum. 11.5.2011 - 20.12.16. RIP.

 

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ledoman wrote:
The PCB is also different than most of others.

Big Smile HA!

1. Create very close counterfeit.
2. Sell it as the real thing.
3. Add counterfeiter name to product.
4. ???
5. Profit!

DBSAR
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RMM, you ok with me re-posting your side-by-side photo of the XM-Ls in the OP? (i can add more as we acquire these comparison photos.

That Canadian flashlight guy & Lantern Guru -Den / DBSARlight

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I have seen ultrafire lights with potmetal bodies.
So anything goes I guess.a new member here a while back got one like it but hasnt been back to tell his findings after I predicted it would melt if driven hard.joking of course.

Old-Lumens wrote:

RMM wrote:

viperbart wrote:
Richard… Could you elaborate on where and how you got these fake LEDs?

Most of them have come in lights, from a few different sources.  I got a batch of Small Sun ZY-T08s with fake LEDs (I didn’t sell them, I used them to modify, but that was the last straw and why I don’t carry it anymore—I think I still have all of the fake LEDs I pulled out of them).  I also got some random headlamps with them as well.  I will take some pictures tonight and post them here.  I don’t know if I can find the XP-G2, but I know I have a few of the XM-L fakes on-hand in a baggy somewhere.  

They are Not fake.   They are just……    Different.Tongue Out

Think of how many millions of lights they will ship out with clone leds in them. You know, I have always felt the aluminum used in Chinese lights was sub-par and it’s been that way forever, so why not have everything sub-par? Drivers with just one resistor and no modes, leds that only put out a few lumens, plastic lenses, plastic reflectors. Heck, as long as they sell…

I’m glad I have someone like RMM to buy components from. At least I know they are legit.Wink

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Hikelite wrote:

"Swoboda also briefly discussed the LED-based lighting division at Cree. Overall, he said the company would reduce its focus on LED components and general consumer lighting and shift focus to higher-end consumer and commercial lighting products. He said lower LED and consumer LED bulb revenue is the reason for lower projections."

 

 

From the same website, different article http://www.ledsmagazine.com/articles/2015/08/cree-and-epistar-sign-major...

"LED manufacturers Cree and Taiwan-based Epistar have announced a global intellectual property (IP) cross-licensing agreement covering all nitride-based-LED patents owned by each and some non-nitride-based patents as well"

"The new deal does not mark the first time Cree has struck a deal with an LED manufacturer based in Taiwan. Last year, Cree invested in Lextar, another company with mid-power expertise. At the time of that announcement, Cree said it would source LEDs from Lextar."

Sounds like Cree put too much into trying to sell too many new varieties of high priced leds and realizes that people in general will not "pay for value added", even though the statement about "it's just a phase" and still believing in people buying value added, they intend to increase the volume of cheap leds from other sources, into their products, to lower the cost, instead of making their own.   Been there, done that so many times over the years. Once that thought train takes over, they start dropping quality of everything and usually go the way of the other extinct manufacturers who tried that. Not good at all, but then again, that's all the majority buy - cheap. I can understand that, as prices keep inflating and jobs decrease, along with average wages stagnating, people will continue to "buy cheap" and the volume of "cheap" will increase.

Value added only works when people have money and they can see that there is a value there.

 

As to the clones, with sales dropping, you can see why the cheap copies will boom. They will increase, instead of going away, especially if Cree starts putting them into their own packages. Imagine Cree buying those fake XM leds and slapping them in their own bulbs. Hardly anyone would be the wiser.

My PayPal address: oldlumens (insert the @ sign here) gmail.com

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nickelflipper][quote=Jubeldum wrote:

A recent ebay purchase conforms with the original…. at least for now Smile

1.)Do you know the name of the seller that you purchased the originals from?
I want to find some XM-L RGB+Neutral or Warm white, but I don’t want to purchase fakes. Most venders that have been mentioned here are out of stock.

2.) Does anyone know where to buy a sinkpad or any direct thermal path base for the XML RGBW? If I can find the emitters from a reputable source then I would still like to reflow them to a dtp base.

nickelflipper
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PPDB22][quote=nickelflipper wrote:
Jubeldum wrote:

A recent ebay purchase conforms with the original…. at least for now Smile

1.)Do you know the name of the seller that you purchased the originals from?
I want to find some XM-L RGB+Neutral or Warm white, but I don’t want to purchase fakes. Most venders that have been mentioned here are out of stock.

2.) Does anyone know where to buy a sinkpad or any direct thermal path base for the XML RGBW? If I can find the emitters from a reputable source then I would still like to reflow them to a dtp base.


@ PPDB22, That’s weird, I couldn’t see my quote until I copied your quote into the reply.

1) Anyway, I got them from 2012topdeal, but all the listings seem to show the same led and star combo that I got. No distinction in the listing on whether the white is cool, or neutral. Assumed it was cool, and I believe that’s exactly what I got. I felt I could always add some PWM’d red if necessary to warm it up Smile .

2) DTP XM-L RGBW Sinkpad mcpcb’s can be had at Mtn. Electronics.

Kent

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DBSAR wrote:
RMM, you ok with me re-posting your side-by-side photo of the XM-Ls in the OP? (i can add more as we acquire these comparison photos.

No problem. If I can find one of those XP-G2s again it would be interesting, but they looked similar to those in the link I posted earlier with the slightly different sized die.

Mountain Electronics : batteries, Noctigon, and much more! What's new? 

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marcl wrote:
Halo… wrote:
My problem with premium lights (besides cost) is their damn love of threadlocker glue! Evil!

LOL. I used to mod lights but by time you spent the money for a new driver, new LED you could be in for a few bob! And of course the host aren’t as good quality as a branded light.

Marc

Well thats not the way I see it if you are thinking that way, I see it as more cost efficient to buy a modded light by someone in this forum and get something better and cheaper than the “premium” light.

I agree on the “us newbies trying to mod end up spending a lot” with mistakes, etc, but if its a success you end up with a better light than the “premium” light usually. And if you buy from an experienced modder, you definitely have a better light for less. Heck I just got a real 8,500 lumen light for less than $100 with a great tint, try to find that out there in “premium” land.

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PPDB22][quote=nickelflipper wrote:
Jubeldum wrote:

A recent ebay purchase conforms with the original…. at least for now Smile

1.)Do you know the name of the seller that you purchased the originals from?
I want to find some XM-L RGB+Neutral or Warm white, but I don’t want to purchase fakes. Most venders that have been mentioned here are out of stock.

2.) Does anyone know where to buy a sinkpad or any direct thermal path base for the XML RGBW? If I can find the emitters from a reputable source then I would still like to reflow them to a dtp base.

I bought my neutral white xml color from Mouser for about $13 and the XML color sinkpad from RMM mtnelectronics.

http://www.mouser.com/Search/m_ProductDetail.aspx?Cree-Inc%2fXMLCTW-A0-0000-00C2AAAB1%2f&qs=sGAEpiMZZMtKo6xK7%252bVI1mlUjoOTJB589gEAxWnB57g%3d

http://www.mtnelectronics.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=63_112&product_id=435

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Thanks nickelflipper and jubeldum

I checked mtnelectronics and they do have rgbw sinkpads but they only had 4 left. I need 16 Sad I am waiting to hear if they will restock them soon.

As for the emitters, I see mouser has them for $13.75. If I purchase there I can be sure I will get the real thing. However, I just found that topleslight has them for $5!

For $5 I think I might take the chance and just take what I get. At 16 pieces that is $80 insted of $220.

They are probably fake, but maybe they will be close? IDK?

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If anything can go wrong, it will.
Matter will be damaged in direct proportion to its value.

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Halo… wrote:
My problem with premium lights (besides cost) is their damn love of threadlocker glue! Evil!

The LED Lensers I have don’t have glue, just screwed in tight. The POP Lite and the Coast did have glue.

Flashlight designers should look at lighthouses and pottery.
这些谁设计的手电筒应该看灯塔,以及在陶器。

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PPDB22 wrote:
Thanks nickelflipper and jubeldum

I checked mtnelectronics and they do have rgbw sinkpads but they only had 4 left. I need 16 Sad I am waiting to hear if they will restock them soon.

As for the emitters, I see mouser has them for $13.75. If I purchase there I can be sure I will get the real thing. However, I just found that topleslight has them for $5!

For $5 I think I might take the chance and just take what I get. At 16 pieces that is $80 insted of $220.

They are probably fake, but maybe they will be close? IDK?

The cool white version is cheap everywhere but I had to buy mine at Mouser so I could get it in neutral white. Cool white harshes my mellow, man. :bigsmile:

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Jubeldum wrote:

Cool white harshes my mellow, man. :bigsmile:

++thumbs up for that! I’m the same way.

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DBSAR wrote:
Interesting.. so some of the Latticebright clones actually have their name on the star, while the sellers still “claim” their lights to have CREE emitters.

Yes. I just bought one UFSH98 from DX.com. The LED assembly looks exactly like the one in the photo shown by ledoman. They claim it is Cree XM-L T6 in the product description anyway. I asked DX and waiting for their reply…

Twinclouds

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good idea is to report it. everyone who receives any light claiming to be a Cree of some sort, and receives the fake latticebright needs to report it, file claims, etc. to wake up these sellers to stop this false advertising and selling fakes listed as brand-name emitters. soon we may begin to see other good brands & emitters like the Nichia 219 arriving as cheap fakes with low CRI, random tints, and low quality knock-offs of those emitters.

That Canadian flashlight guy & Lantern Guru -Den / DBSARlight

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I have one UltraFire Cree T6 and two UltraFire Cree Q5’s. So I opened them up today.
The T6 was LaticeBright- it has a poor blue tint
One Q5 has a board that says HT-PE. It is the brightest of the three but has a cold blue tint that is worse that the “T6”.
The other Q5 is another LatticeBright. It is the weakest of the three but has a great “frothy cool white tint”. The emitter is very small compared to the other two.

So who knows what is actually in these things? I would swap out the emitters, but that wouldn’t help unless I put in drivers too. I may do that though. MntE’s has some good choices.

I have some pictures but I don’t know how to post them.

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