- The Fake-Cree LED Awareness Thread - The new "low" in Budget lights.

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Tom E
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Sampling of mine:

The new T-43 was a little surprising, but not really - Small Sun's are almost always cheaply made with the 1 or 2 exceptions like the T-08, but the T-08 had quality problems. The original ZY-T11's for example, are worse quality than the UltraFire and other clone ZY-T11's out there.

The nastiest one above is the T-43, because the MCPCB is marked CREE, but the LED definitely has the signs of an LB.

LightRider
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This is my first time posting pictures and I can’t seem to get a link to imbed each picture so I just pasted the direct link to the photos. I don’t have a camera and my iPad couldn’t focus up close. I could get better pictures if someone realy wanted them

http://imgur.com/a/oY0vf

Tom E
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Here you go:

Easy. Use the 'tree' icon on BLF, next to the anchor. On the imgur website, rt. click on the picture and choose 'copy link'. Paste the link into the 'Image URL' field that show when you click on the tree icon.

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UlraFire T6 – LatticeBright inside
Dim with unpleasant Cold Blue tint

Quote:

UltraFire Q5 – Lattice Bright inside
Weakest of the three but nice frosty cool white just a small touch of purple

Quote:

UltraFire Q5 with LB picture two

Quote:

UltraFire Q5- HT-PE label?
Unpleasant Very Cold Blue tint but the brightest of the three

Quote:

UltraFire Q5- with HT-PE picture two

DBSAR
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Tom E wrote:

Sampling of mine:

The new T-43 was a little surprising, but not really – Small Sun’s are almost always cheaply made with the 1 or 2 exceptions like the T-08, but the T-08 had quality problems. The original ZY-T11’s for example, are worse quality than the UltraFire and other clone ZY-T11’s out there.

The nastiest one above is the T-43, because the MCPCB is marked CREE, but the LED definitely has the signs of an LB.

wow indeed. It looks like this is only the icing on the cake were all about to encounter now with entry-level budge lights from China sellers..
Good thing here with seeign these photos is the more photos we can find and look at of the various LB fakes, – the more aware we will become in identifying them and able to file claims, false advertising, etc. to the sellers.
Thanks for the photo Tom, i will post this one in the OP too.

That Canadian flashlight guy & Lantern Guru -Den / DBSARlight

DBSAR
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Also i noticed in the comparison and other photos of the LB LEDs is that the phosphor appear to be more “pale” and thinner, that may explain why some mentioned the tint is of a more bluish harsher color than genuine CREE Cool white emitters.
Another scary thought on this, is if the phosphor is actually thinner & less dense, is there a possibility there some harmful U/V spectrum light emitted from these fakes from the original emitter die? can this be tested?

That Canadian flashlight guy & Lantern Guru -Den / DBSARlight

Halo...
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No UV. Our white Leds use a blue led to excite the phosphor. UV can be used instead but it has a shorter life, is less efficient and I believe it’s more costly. I’ve seen some special high CRI white leds use UV.

joel95ex
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we need to continue to
post the fakes vs genuine comparison pics. this has been a big problem with HID bulbs—- the counterfeits have become increasingly difficult to identify except for a few clues. then just buy from reputable sellers and manufacturers

DBSAR
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we will continue to post the side-by-side comparison photos as we can get them, to help everyone identify the fakes from the genuine versions.

That Canadian flashlight guy & Lantern Guru -Den / DBSARlight

LightRider
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You can see on the ultafire q5 picture two that the reflector was crimped and dented. I wonder if the emitter was swapped? When I tryed to get it out I had to push it out from the back to keep from damaging it. Maybe they purchase the flashlights, swap out the cree’s and then sell them both?

Does anyone know what HT-PE stands for?

ledoman
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HT-PE = counterfeit  Cree XP-E (very likely if you compare 3 small holes around the dome)

dchomak
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Here are 2 SK68’s
The one on the left I got about a year ago and has a driver, no modes but it runs on AA or 14500
On the right is one of several my brother gave me 3 months ago. He got rid of them because they are DD and do not run on AA

On a 14500 the one on the left draws 1.6A and is twice as bright as the right one which draws 2.2A and is blueish

These new LED’s are the worst of the worst!

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bugsy36 wrote:

Usually fakes start out good then degrade as time goes on so at the outset it is possible that we get decent emitters but on the other hand it would also be a good idea to start scarfing up any deals on genuine product also.

I am definitely retracting my comments! I did not realize that this problem is as bad as it is.

It's the simple things that we take for granted that cost us the most

Ευκαιρία λέει πιάσε με από το μέτωπο γιατί μόλις έχω περάσει δεν θα με πιάσειs

keltex78
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It looks like the discerning feature on the counterfeit XP-E emitter is the phosphor layer that extends beyond the edges of the die.

Also:

Open through-hole on corner of emitter base
Smooth surface of emitter base around dome, vs. rippled on genuine emitter

I’ve received several lights from recent eBay purchases that had “XP-E” emitters installed. Several of those were extremely blue-tinted, and performed poorly, even after being transplanted into a properly-driven P60 pill for testing vs. a known-good drop-in. I assume these are being shipped out in many of the sub-$5 lights we are seeing on eBay, and probably other sellers as well.

I’ll look at my salvaged emitters when I get some time to see if I can spot the fakes next to the good.

I’m surprised at how good these clones look, at least superficially. They don’t have the same level of cheapness I’ve come to expect from the budget fried-egg clones I’ve received in so many cheap lights.


Keepin’ the “B” in BLF

Don wrote:
It sounds like the XM LEDs won’t really be suitable for flashlight use. Pity…

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Thanks for the photo Dchomak. ( photo added to OP) there are obvious differences in the XP-E and fake.

That Canadian flashlight guy & Lantern Guru -Den / DBSARlight

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DX replied. They said they will talk to the manufacture and let me know the results. Let’s see what they are going to say.
Looks like most Cree lights are actually not Cree even if the Cree is printed on the flashlight body. They are not that bad but shouldn’t mislead people.
It appears that the moral standard is going down for these Chinese manufactures, especially in the flashlight area. (Well, the record, I am Chinese also :-)). How can someone claim the 18650 Li-Ion batteries have capacity 4000mah or more, but knew them are maybe 1000 mah or less? The AA/14500 flashlight claimed to be 600lm is actually less than 100 lm and flashlights that are actually about 300 to 400 lm to be 2000 to 3000 lm? I have never seen such shameless and outrageous claim in other product area. Well, maybe I just don’t know the reality today anyway Sad .

Twinclouds

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What about this one?


(Click on image to enlarge)

This is one from cheap (less $3 from ebay) “Ultrafire S6” “CREE Q5”

If anything can go wrong, it will.
Matter will be damaged in direct proportion to its value.

keltex78
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Classic “Chevrolet Corvette” for sale:
800 HP, 0-60mph in 2.8 secs!
63mpg city/78mpg hwy
$25.99

Star Star Star Star Star (763 reviews)


Keepin’ the “B” in BLF

Don wrote:
It sounds like the XM LEDs won’t really be suitable for flashlight use. Pity…

djozz
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antiparanoico wrote:
What about this one? !http://i.imgur.com/Qeb2EiCl.jpg!:http://i.imgur.com/Qeb2EiC.jpg (Click on image to enlarge) This is one from cheap (less $3 from ebay) "Ultrafire S6" "CREE Q5"

Wow, very convincing too, only difference I see is: the small square in the corner should be a round dot. But my first guess would be that it is a Cree led anyway.

dchomak
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twinclouds wrote:
DX replied. They said they will talk to the manufacture and let me know the results. Let’s see what they are going to say. Looks like most Cree lights are actually not Cree even if the Cree is printed on the flashlight body. They are not that bad but shouldn’t mislead people. It appears that the moral standard is going down for these Chinese manufactures, especially in the flashlight area. (Well, the record, I am Chinese also :-)). How can someone claim the 18650 Li-Ion batteries have capacity 4000mah or more, but knew them are maybe 1000 mah or less? The AA/14500 flashlight claimed to be 600lm is actually less than 100 lm and flashlights that are actually about 300 to 400 lm to be 2000 to 3000 lm? I have never seen such shameless and outrageous claim in other product area. Well, maybe I just don’t know the reality today anyway Sad .

You are probably to young to remember the boombox and amplifier wars. Back then, you could buy a 1500 Watt Stereo system for $50!
There were terms like “Instantaneous Peak to Peak Power” etc.
Here is how the term “Instantaneous Peak to Peak Power” can be used (mathematically) to inflate power ratings.
Watts = E x I, but I = E/R so E x I can be expressed as E squared/ R

So say you had 100 volts AC across a 50 ohm resistor, the power would be 100×100/50 which calculates to 200 Watts.
But in AC voltage, the voltage varies as a Sine wave. That 100 Volts is an “RMS” value (sort of an average voltage) and actually hits peaks of about 1.4 times that. 140V at the peak. Now if you use THAT number to calculate the power you get 140×140/50 which NOW comes to 392 Watts!
But we are not done yet! AC voltage varies both plus and minus, so the difference from the peak plus voltage and the peak minus voltage is twice the 140, or 280 “peak to peak” Volts. Plug that number in and you now get 1568 WATTS
So, just by doing some math, they could now say 1568 Watts instead of what it actually is, 200 Watts.
Still not finished though. The term Instantaneous. The thought was that the output wave form could have spikes that peaked at over 140V, if only for an instant, so lets use that number. And on and on. So when the wattage was rated with the “Instantaneous Peak to Peak Power” method, they could use any number they wanted. Silly

The lumens and mAh ratings from these guys follow a similar (dishonest) formula, I just never have bothered to try and figure it out.

And then there were the wattage ratings of speakers……………..

keltex78
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For audio amplifiers, the easy check to verify actual max wattage was to check the current rating of the fuse…

Invariably, always less than the amplifier’s stated wattage would account for…


Keepin’ the “B” in BLF

Don wrote:
It sounds like the XM LEDs won’t really be suitable for flashlight use. Pity…

djozz
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This is already going on for a while: I just checked an ultracheap 'dive light' that I bought ages ago, can't find it back but it was somewhere in 2014, this is the led:

antiparanoico
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djozz wrote:

antiparanoico wrote:
What about this one?
(Click on image to enlarge)
This is one from cheap (less $3 from ebay) “Ultrafire S6” “CREE Q5”

Wow, very convincing too, only difference I see is: the small square in the corner should be a round dot. But my first guess would be that it is a Cree led anyway.

Now side by side…

I can see that the core is smaller in the CREE, like EZ900 vs. EZ1000 in XR-E series.
It is also different as the wires are inserted into the core.


(Click on images to enlarge)

If anything can go wrong, it will.
Matter will be damaged in direct proportion to its value.

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I was not too young to experience the time period that you mentioned. I was just not in the USA. (Probably as an electrician in a small town thanks to the cultural revolution initiated by Mao at that time. But that’s another story.)
As for the lumen and mAh justifications, I don’t think these people even bother to do that either. They just put the numbers on their product to catch people’s eyes and not many people will bother to check. Another thing I am puzzled about is: Even with such fake claims, where did they got so many positive reviews.
To another extreme, now I don’t trust any of the claims. That is why I would like to put my hands on some testing equipments that I can use to verify or dis-verify these claims. Battery capacities are easy. Lumens are more difficult.

Twinclouds

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Another discerning "feature" I've noticed is that most of the Cree LEDs silicone have a stippled or "orange peel" appearance on the flat part of the die.  The RGBW Cree XM-Ls also have the stippled appearance like the XM-Ls.  [After reading this, the next batch of LatticeBrights will probably also be stippled].

Mountain Electronics : batteries, Noctigon, and much more! What's new? 

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Interesting, i wonder how long the sellers have actually been sneaking these Cree fakes in under our noses before we finally caught on now to whats been happening.

That Canadian flashlight guy & Lantern Guru -Den / DBSARlight

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The probably will now that they know we are on to them.

That Canadian flashlight guy & Lantern Guru -Den / DBSARlight

twinclouds
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I opened another flashlight, i.e., one of those “2000L Zoomable CREE XML-T6 LED 18650 Flashlight” flooding the market. Sure enough, it is a LatticeBright version 2.0. I am starting wondering if any of these with the name of Ultrafire on them are real Crees or they are all LBs.
It is not that bad actually except for a little lower light output. They should just mark as LB rather than Cree.

Twinclouds

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Just checked some of lights.
Found few LB LEDs.
My comparison pics for the record:
LB/XM-L

XP-E/LB

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i found what appears to be a fake xp-e in one of my sk68 clones yesterday. i bought one of the gearbest camo-sk68 a while ago, and that horrible bluish tint had to go, so i de-domed it.
when i compared it to a couple of my other xp-e sk68 i was surprised. the de-domed focused led had only a slightly smaller hotspot than one of the others. when i looked closer the led looked like a xp-e but with a smaller die.
i thought that maybe it’s a xp-c then? but it had three strips and two bond wires, just like the xp-e but with a smaller die.
so after reading this thread a bit more and looking at other fakes i suppose this is a fake cree led, since the phosphor seems to extend outside the die, and the dome isn’t clear like the cree.

the tint isn’t good, can fake cree be de-domed as well?

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