Alkaline vs NiMH

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marcl
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Alkaline vs NiMH

I know that alkies have a lot less umph than NiMH but I found this link. You may already know this or seen the link but I hadn’t nor did I realise quite how poor alkaline cell were. @ 1a they have a quarter of the capacity!

http://rightbattery.com/302-top-10-best-performing-1-5v-aa-alkaline-batt...

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mhanlen
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I did a visual comparison a year ago with a NIMH, an alkaline, and a 14500. It’s pretty interesting to see how runtimes are affected with three different batteries on the same mode.

marcl
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mhanlen wrote:
I did a visual comparison a year ago with a NIMH, an alkaline, and a 14500. It’s pretty interesting to see how runtimes are affected with three different batteries on the same mode.

I like that very good indeed. I pressume that’s hours and minutes?

Marc

Sorry it is, just read the last line.

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HKJ
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You can find a more direct comparison of battery chemistry here: http://lygte-info.dk/info/ComparisonOfAABatteryChemistry%20UK.html

Using my comparator you can compare both alkaline, NiMH and a few other at different current: http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/CommonAAcomparator.php

I will be adding more alkaline over the next few months (I have already tested some).

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

Trevi_lux
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Some time ago I tested Eneloop NiMH 2000mA Vs Quality alkaline Duracell Procell Vs Primary Lithium with a Klarus P1A in high mode.

The graphic of the test (now only bought NiMh and some Primary lithium for emergency):

(Y: lux to one meter, X: time in minutes/hours)

marcl
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HKJ wrote:

You can find a more direct comparison of battery chemistry here: http://lygte-info.dk/info/ComparisonOfAABatteryChemistry%20UK.html

Using my comparator you can compare both alkaline, NiMH and a few other at different current: http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/CommonAAcomparator.php

I will be adding more alkaline over the next few months (I have already tested some).

I have just been in a discussion on another thread, regarding AA lights. I personally like them but the cells have their limits as we know. What I don’t understand is the fascination for a light that pumps out a silly amount of lumens whilst running on NiMH. Especially when they are wanting multiple cells. To me it is clear that lithium’s have so much more juice, on all fronts.

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HKJ
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marcl wrote:
I have just been in a discussion on another thread, regarding AA lights. I personally like them but the cells have their limits as we know. What I don't understand is the fascination for a light that pumps out a silly amount of lumens whilst running on NiMH. Especially when they are wanting multiple cells. To me it is clear that lithium's have so much more juice, on all fronts.

Lithium is good, but way to expensive, I prefer LiIon. I do like lights using a single AAA NiMH, but when you get into larger light with high performance LiIon is the best.

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

mongoose
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What a wealth of information in just a few replies, well done guys, and a great topic marcl. Smile

homer

marcl
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mongoose wrote:
What a wealth of information in just a few replies, well done guys, and a great topic marcl. Smile

Thanks for the kind words.

Marc.

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marcl
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HKJ wrote:

marcl wrote:
I have just been in a discussion on another thread, regarding AA lights. I personally like them but the cells have their limits as we know. What I don’t understand is the fascination for a light that pumps out a silly amount of lumens whilst running on NiMH. Especially when they are wanting multiple cells. To me it is clear that lithium’s have so much more juice, on all fronts.

Lithium is good, but way to expensive, I prefer LiIon. I do like lights using a single AAA NiMH, but when you get into larger light with high performance LiIon is the best.

Sorry for the confusion. When I said lithium I meant liIon.

Marc

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vēer
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Marcl, the thing is that I, for example, want a versatile light that can run on all kinds of AA sized batteries there are ;)!

Primary I will be using 14500 and Eneloop Pro’s, however ability to use much safer chemistry and be able to pump out plenty lumens is good thing to have.
Especially in emergency.

Leaving high output to lithium batteries only, well, thats not going to happen, not until everyone drops alkalines and NiMh’s and starts buying only rechargeable lithium batteries.

marcl
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vēer wrote:
Marcl, the thing is that I, for example, want a versatile light that can run on all kinds of AA sized batteries there are ;)!

Primary I will be using 14500 and Eneloop Pro’s, however ability to use much safer chemistry and be able to pump out plenty lumens is good thing to have.
Especially in emergency.

Leaving high output to lithium batteries only, well, thats not going to happen, not until everyone drops alkalines and NiMh’s and starts buying only rechargeable lithium batteries.

Yes I have no problem with that, that’s why I like my s15. But I think when you get to seriously high outputs things get limited, very limited. But I love my AA lights, I just don’t want them to produce 1000lm.

Just FYI I didn’t post this because of the AA light thread, I was searching for ‘second fill technology’ because of the alkalines GB posted. That’s when I found the above link.

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vēer
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I understand the point, but IF the light can deliver those 1000 lumens, even if its only for 15 minutes before single NiMh AA depletes, its still good to have such burst of bright light ;)!

DavidEF
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vēer wrote:
I understand the point, but IF the light can deliver those 1000 lumens, even if its only for 15 minutes before single NiMh AA depletes, its still good to have such burst of bright light ;)!

The way I look at it, the more energy we can get from the battery to the LED, the more efficient the driver is. If you want less light, you can always scale it back from there or use a lower mode. In doing so, you can have even better run time than if the driver could only do less to begin with. Similarly, a triple LED flashlight has better efficiency on low modes than a single emitter.

No matter how you define “better”, a flashlight that can do more with less has to fit the description. Wink

P.S. In the interest of NOT trolling your thread, I’ll let this be all I have to say here. :bigsmile:

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SawMaster
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I was aware of the differences, but seeing the graph and the beamshots makes it far easier to understand just how much difference there is. Good job!

Phil

OrionLight
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Thanks for all of your work in testing everyone! It sure makes it easier to compare for amateurs like me!

Also, what machines/software/devices do you use to get run-time graphs like that?

Ronin42
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I just found a stash of AA alkaline cells and I must say I don’t mind not dealing with corrosion any more. I feel like the orthodox father who rips his shirt “alkalines are dead to me”. Smile

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Comparing NiMh AA with 14500 Li-Ion, for the same size, NiMh is not that bad. For example, the most 14500 are in the range of 600 to 900mah. the NiMhs are from 2000 to 3000. Considering the normal voltages are 3.7 and 1.25 respectively, they are almost the same when considering the energy that they stored. I feel the issues for AA NiMhs are the weight and peak current, especially the latter. Also the drivers for AA are not as efficient as for 14500. Make any sense?
Otherwise, I will be happy to use NiMh AAs because the safety and accessibility.

Twinclouds

Jubeldum
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Ronin42 wrote:
I just found a stash of AA alkaline cells and I must say I don’t mind not dealing with corrosion any more. I feel like the orthodox father who rips his shirt “alkalines are dead to me”. Smile

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Death, taxes, and alkaleaks.

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

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All batteries have their uses. You could do the same test another way around too, and run a light at firefly mode to show how much longer the light runs with alkalines. Alkalines also “rest” and regain some of their performance while the light is switched off.

Alkalines are not meant for a long, continuous, high current purposes. Just choose the right battery for the task. Stop talking only bad things about Alkalines! 8)

Rufusbduck
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No. Because they leak. I will still use them for some things but their reputation for this is well deserved. Yet another test comparing the lifetime current capacity of a 10440 vs a AAA alkaline, 500 charges x 350 mAhr vs 1 × 750 mAhr is like comparing a bucket to a shot glass. It’s not even close on lifetime cost basis either, a 10440 might cost 3-4 times as much as a single AAA but will outlast 200 of them. I’ve yet to come across the perfect cell but alkalines are far from my first choice. Nimhs have more current capacity than liion but at 1/3 the voltage so they are actually comparable on Watt hours and have a similar life in charge cycles. I must admit to a bias against single use items when other options are available but I would be less than honest in saying I never use them. I have an XP-1 that is nice for what it is and a 4D light that is a joke when put against a 14500 Saber 1A.

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

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SawMaster
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I use alkalines, lots of them, and I have no hate for them. They have their quirks that you have to watch out for but so do LIon and NiMh rechargeables. All batteries have their good and bad sides and all are handy- I wouldn’t want a life without batteries so I can’t hate any of them. Just my $0.02 on that.

With that said though, my alkaline use is coming to an end for me not because alkalines are bad, but because there is better. I wasn’t aware of how crappy the NiMh’s I had were compared to good ones which both out-perform alkalines as well as are cheaper in the long run. It’s going to take a lot of cells for me and a mind-set change but I’m on the path to NiMh enlightenment because of BLF.

It’s always sad to hear that someone lost their (fill-in-the-blank) because of a battery leak but that is no reason to hate, just a wake-up call to another of the things one needs to know in life, and the more you know the better off you are.

Phil

marcl
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To be honest, apart From the fact the leak, you can buy ready to use NiMH cheaper than Duracell’s. So why bother?

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chadvone
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Worked a water treatment plant expansion. My boss was buying ready to use NiMH for there radios and tossing them when empty.

vēer
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I hope you picked them up and reused :D?!

chadvone
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When job ended they gave me 5 radios 3 had 3 aaa,

vēer
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Pitty that NiMh batteries went into landfill and not into proper recycling.

At least you got the radios :D!

WalkIntoTheLight
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I use Eneloops in almost everything. The perfect replacement for alkaleaks. My Zebralight SC5w draws 6 amps from a single Eneloop (at 500 lumens). I tried an alkaline in it, and it wouldn’t even power most of the high modes. I don’t understand why alkalines are still popular, except that they’re cheap if you’re only going to use them once. Really wasteful, though.

marcl
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WalkIntoTheLight wrote:
I use Eneloops in almost everything. The perfect replacement for alkaleaks. My Zebralight SC5w draws 6 amps from a single Eneloop (at 500 lumens). I tried an alkaline in it, and it wouldn’t even power most of the high modes. I don’t understand why alkalines are still popular, except that they’re cheap if you’re only going to use them once. Really wasteful, though.

I don’t understand why you never see an advert for rechargeable batteries full stop. Everyone is trying to save the planet, it would be a good start.

As for alkalines being cheap. In the supermarket here in France you can pay 4 or 5 euros for 4 Duracell AA. In lidl this week for 4 euros you can get a pack of ready for use AAs. So in many cases eneloop style batteries are cheap to buy.

I guess its simple, people don’t know they exist.

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vēer
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People dont know+they are uneducated about rechargeables, they might be throwing them away in regular trash, not recycling, it might not be safe charging them in crappy chargers and, ofcourse, the industry is set the way that Duracell and Energizer rule the market?

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