Convoy L6... XHP70 Beast!

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Etex
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As far as rewrap, not that I can tell, looking under top or bottom fold over. But if a stock wrapped battery has a new tail & positive button added, then re wrapped, I wouldn’t neccesaily see that.

vestureofblood
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J-Dub74 wrote:
That’s a pretty big increase in the cell diameter. Makes me wonder if they’re double wrapping them. EVVA was doing that for a while on protected button tops. It was wrapped once to add the button top and then wrapped again when they added the protection circuit. That was making their cells too fat for many of my convoy lights. In that case Richard contacted EVVA about it and they started single wrapping them for him.

Maybe I can work out something similar here. Matt, did you buy your cells from Banggood using the link they setup for the L6? I can have the Banggood rep talk to the KeepPower rep to resolve this going forward.

Also please let me know if you’re seeing variations in the ID of the Convoy tube. I’m not worried too much about a difference of 0.006 in the ID but if we’re seeing problems with cell fitment caused by variance in Convoy manufacturing I’d be all over that. Shoot me a PM if you want to discuss any of this in more detail.

My cells are not from banggood. I messaged Keeppower about it, but if you can talk to any other dealers that are having this issue so they will speak with keeppower that would be awesome. The more people they hear from (hopefully in a nice way) the better our chances of having this resolved is.

The variations in the body tube are all within reason. I mainly posted this here because Convoy users are the ones who will be most effected by this. I would not object if Simon wanted to add a few thousandths of an inch to the ID moving forward, or some length, but don’t see the light as being the problem.

KawiBoy1428 wrote:
What are your battery tubes measuring?

My first one measures about 27.12mm The newer about 26.87mm Slight variations of those numbers can be had if the calipers are turned.

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vestureofblood wrote:
J-Dub74 wrote:
That’s a pretty big increase in the cell diameter. Makes me wonder if they’re double wrapping them. EVVA was doing that for a while on protected button tops. It was wrapped once to add the button top and then wrapped again when they added the protection circuit. That was making their cells too fat for many of my convoy lights. In that case Richard contacted EVVA about it and they started single wrapping them for him.

Maybe I can work out something similar here. Matt, did you buy your cells from Banggood using the link they setup for the L6? I can have the Banggood rep talk to the KeepPower rep to resolve this going forward.

Also please let me know if you’re seeing variations in the ID of the Convoy tube. I’m not worried too much about a difference of 0.006 in the ID but if we’re seeing problems with cell fitment caused by variance in Convoy manufacturing I’d be all over that. Shoot me a PM if you want to discuss any of this in more detail.

My cells are not from banggood. I messaged Keeppower about it, but if you can talk to any other dealers that are having this issue so they will speak with keeppower that would be awesome. The more people they hear from (hopefully in a nice way) the better our chances of having this resolved is.

The variations in the body tube are all within reason. I mainly posted this here because Convoy users are the ones who will be most effected by this. I would not object if Simon wanted to add a few thousandths of an inch to the ID moving forward, or some length, but don’t see the light as being the problem.

KawiBoy1428 wrote:
What are your battery tubes measuring?

My first one measures about 27.12mm The newer about 26.87mm Slight variations of those numbers can be had if the calipers are turned.


Hmmm 26.87mm (1.058”) Wink

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longmire
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Ok, here are my amateur measurements (at their widest point):

L6 clear:
26.88mm (battery entrance end)
26.85mm (driver end)

L6 black:
26.90mm (battery entrance end)
26.95mm (driver end)

Keeppower 26650 5200mah (2)
26.86mm
26.90mm

These cells fit the black L6 like glove, but are too tight on the clear. I could probably force them in, but I’m afraid they won’t come out.

I ordered my KP cells 11/29/16 from illumn.com, my black L6 from Gearbest on 11/11/16, and my silver L6 from Gearbest on 1/26/17

J-Dub74
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This 26650 cell vs. L6 dilemma is frustrating to me. This is not out of any disappointment with Convoy but in how to approach a “solution”. The problem is mostly in the variance in cell lengths and diameters from one manufacturer to another and even within the same manufacturer from batch to batch. In 26650 cells the length in a 2-cell inline configuration like this, the stacked cells can easily vary by 10 mm or so. This means from a design standpoint you pretty much have to choose an optimum cell or just one in the middle of the size range and allow a ton of spring to compensate on each end. This is not a simple task and there is no one solution that will please everyone. Statements that one will just wait until Simon fixes the problem are not fair or justified IMHO. I don’t say this to call anyone in particular out, just to make all aware of the complexities involved.

I very much appreciate, respect and enjoy my role as trusted advisor to one of my favorite flashlight manufacturers. So, in a case like this new cell diameter issue what do I do? If I ask him to make the I.D. larger for all L6 going forward then we will have complaints of battery-rattle. I will certainly bring this up to Simon and we will discuss what might be done.

The scenario being described here is the curse of the budget flashlight world. There are literally NO manufacturers of the lithium cells we use that intend them for use in flashlights or even individual sale. Lithium cells provide the power we enthusiasts need and now insist on so there is certainly no going back, yet we are reliant on aftermarket companies to add things like protection circuits and button tops in many cases. This is exactly why I reached out to BG and asked them if they could source the exact fit cells we need for the L6 directly from KeepPower.

If anyone ordered from the BG link I have in the OP then I may have a chance at resolving this but from other sources I have no say whatsoever. I do not at all discourage shopping elsewhere for cells but in this case I can only do so much.

As always, feedback will be taken in and I’ll do what I can.

Cheers y’all

Etex
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Would it be a bad idea for the user to hone the inside of the battery tube out? I think I still have one of those 3 armed drill powered brake cylinder hones.

J-Dub74
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Etex wrote:
Would it be a bad idea for the user to hone the inside of the battery tube out? I think I still have one of those 3 armed drill powered brake cylinder hones.

If you have the equipment and the skill go for it. It’s an excellent solution. Thumbs Up

And unless someone beats me to this response this will be post number 4000 in this thread! Crown

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If you started with an enlarged ID, then smaller diameter batteries could always be compensated for by inserting rolled up layer(s) of paper shims.

I wanted to try out the impressive looking Shockli 26650 5500mah until I found out it was 26.7 mm +/- 0.2mm.

KawiBoy1428
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Etex wrote:
Would it be a bad idea for the user to hone the inside of the battery tube out? I think I still have one of those 3 armed drill powered brake cylinder hones.
Actually I’m not one for sloppy battery tubes and at 26.87mm Regular batteries are sloppy! You want to use oversize batteries, look at it as a chance to custom fit the tube, which I love doing!

Really all you need is a High Speed Variable drill and 1/4” rod from Home Depot or what ever, sand paper, a hack saw.

Make a Flapper!! Big Smile

I like a custom smooth fit to my weapon lights and even after single point boring I flap out the bore to fit, adds a bit of drag to the cells, helps with recoil, slows the cell (s) from slamming into the driver, that and limiting travel of the cells using rubber bumper (s) at the driver end or both ends, depending on the tube length and cells. Even my Combat lights/flashlights, ever drop a light on the bezel end and have the cells crush or bottom out the driver spring, called coil bind, I have….. once! Wink

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Is there anything wrong with Orbtronic 26650s other than the price? I don’t know what they are under the wrapper but their protected and unprotected cells fit my L6 (black) just fine. Their 18650s seemed to test pretty well.

Etex
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Thanks KawiBoy1428, I’ve improvised tooling quite a bit in the past. I’ll have check to see if I can even find my cylinder hone, it got retired after my muscle car era. It may be to fine of grit for removing material plus grinding stones tend to easily load up with aluminum, in which case they just burnish and generate heat. I also have a few sizes of drum sanders, as well, in different grits.

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Same problem. Got my L6 a couple of weeks ago and yesterday got 2 of the recommended keeppower protected. I think I could force them in but would never get them back out. I have inquires in at keeppower and my supplier. I am hoping the just double wrapped this batch. I can’t imagine we all have to get our lights bored to fit new batteries.

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Acquire liitokalas without protection, I have added resistance handle about 7 amps in the tail, there is no risk, a few days ago I produced short circuit in two of these batteries nothing happens at all.
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gastonpatagonico wrote:
Acquire liitokalas without protection, I have added resistance handle about 7 amps in the tail, there is no risk, a few days ago I produced short circuit in two of these batteries nothing happens at all.
…until you next charge them. Shocked
gastonpatagonico
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Hi, I’m sorry, I do not speak English, I use a translator, I clarify the short circuit, it was not in the flashlight, I was measuring charge and opsssss, I made a mistake with the multimeter, the batteries died, but no exploits or anything like that, greetings.
J-Dub74
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gastonpatagonico wrote:
Acquire liitokalas without protection, I have added resistance handle about 7 amps in the tail, there is no risk, a few days ago I produced short circuit in two of these batteries nothing happens at all.

I saw your follow up to this post. This message taken at face value as it was written is bad and dangerous advice that I do not want anyone to follow. I mean no offense to you and I thank you for clarifying that you do not speak English and are using a translator. We have people from all over the world here and all are welcome. Some things do not translate well. Short circuits in lithium cells are always to be avoided as the results can be very bad. This fact is the very reason that Simon clearly said that he only recommends high quality protected cells for use in the L6. Experienced people can do what they wish and many here do so and quite safely but this takes research and knowledge of the battery chemistry and much more. There is a very good thread covering all the basics of lithium ion safety here.
Etex
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!{width:50%}20170421_205916!

1st attempt to hone out tube using a brake cylinder hone worked out ok. As I suspected, the stones are not that aggressive. Enlarged 0.06mm, the first .03mm went fairly quick until the hone loaded up with aluminum. The spring loaded three arms maintain an even pressure, and keeps interior nice and round. After honing with the stones, I wrapped them with gray scotchbrite then a cloth with compound for final polish. Next time I probably start with wrapping with coarser grit sandpaper or emory cloth.

stephenk
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Any likelihood of there being a diffuser produced for the L6?

Jensen567
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I second the request for an L6 diffuser. L2 diffuser would be awesome as well.

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The only problem now, ETex, is that the inside of the tube has no anodization and if you get a nick in the wrapping of a cell that can touch the inside of the tube the light will come on regardless of the switch position. So be sure to keep a check on your cell wraps to maintain integrity. Wink

Etex
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Dale,
That’s why I had previously asked if it would be a bad idea. Especially with protected batteries and the metal positive strip running up the side of batteries. Then I checked continuity from the inside tube walls to the edge at tailcap & found spotty areas where I had continuity.

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I wouldn’t use protected cells in it, for that reason. The worst that could happen with un-protected cells is that the light comes on. With protected cells it could direct short one or both of the cells.

The spotty continuity is probably due to some areas having thicker anodization than others or some of the tube was not concentric so only the high spots ground off for a uniform tube diameter and left those areas without ano.

It’s not a Huge deal, just something to be aware of. (unless of course you’re using protected cells and then it COULD be a Huge deal!)

At the end of the day it’s no real difference from the battery tubes I make for my scratch built lights. None of those have any ano at all. Wink (I also never use protected cells)

Richard sells a Kapton tape (or used to) in a 2” width, this would be ideal to put a layer around the cell to act as a very thin wrap and give some tube separation. The Kapton tape is really very very thin but strong. Worth checking into maybe.

Etex
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I should have said more the continuity test was “before” I honed the tube.

DB Custom
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Interesting. Any sign that they may have machined the inside of the tube after the ano was done? To true it or to fine tune inside diameter? (anodization can cause dimensional growth that can sometimes be unacceptable.)

Etex
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Not sure of that. I only check a few spots on inside with my meter, and questionable area were very small and random.

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Probably why the Protected batteries are getting bigger, thicker casing’s or double/triple wrapping, to lessen the chance of the fitz fitz… BooOOM!

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To my knowledge, none of the top brands make a protected cell. So the protected cells all have aftermarket IC’s added to them. I’ve heard that some will strip the original wrapper and apply Kapton under the protection strip, then another layer of Kapton, then rewrap the cell. These are the thinner ones. If they leave the original wrapper on then indeed they do grow in diameter with double wraps, the strip, and a couple of strips of Kapton tape.

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Tube on your left is factory, tube on right is after honing.

Interesting, I just checked my 2nd Clear L6, and it is much, much worse doing a continuity test (virtually all around the circumference with breaks). Note the inline milling marks on the factory tube.

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Etex wrote:
Note the inline milling marks on the factory tube.

Maybe it’s just extruded tube and only the outside is machined.

Etex
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!{width:50%}20170422_123929!

I think I agree, shouldn’t have called them milling marks.

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