New Convoy Deep Carry clip

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keltex78
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J-Dub74 wrote:
I heard arguments about the clip scratching the body as you unthread the tail cap which make sense. That said, I’ve had these clips on the tail cap of four lights since they were released and I was one of the first to receive them. That would be the BLF A6 and Convoy S2+. One of each in both short and long form for 4 lights in total. None of these have a single scratch on the bodies from taking the tail cap on and off with clip attached to the tail so I’m pretty much ruling out that argument unless someone comes forth with evidence to the contrary.

This is with minimal actual use, but you can see scratching beginning. I think this is inevitable if you want a pocket clip.

Of course, widening the gap slightly would make room for me to apply the heat shrink tubing fix, like I did with my old-style screw-on pocket clip:


Keepin’ the “B” in BLF

Don wrote:
It sounds like the XM LEDs won’t really be suitable for flashlight use. Pity…

scianiac
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I find if you just pinch the back of the clip to the endcap while unscrewing you can lift the tip up enough to not rub on the body.

I actually like a relatively light clip tension but I think most people like them stiff. As long as there is a way to bend the clip in one way or another to adjust it thicker metal wouldn’t be a bad thing.

Co-owner/Engineer at STO Flashlights.

hank
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As to that little right angle that interferes when slipping the clip over the edge of a pocket, you should compare the OrcaTorch T11, which has a smooth transition there that avoids the problem completely:

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/47035#comment-975987

RotorHead64
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hank wrote:
As to that little right angle that interferes when slipping the clip over the edge of a pocket, you should compare the OrcaTorch T11, which has a smooth transition there that avoids the problem completely: !{width:50%}http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z377/orcatorch/OrcaTorchmilitary%20E...! http://budgetlightforum.com/node/47035#comment-975987[/quote]

+1 I agree. That's a better way to do it.

Halo...
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scianiac wrote:
The most important change to me though is the entrance ramp that J-Dub circled in his second pic. I wish that ramp on the end was a much shallower angle and in turn was longer to maintain the same intake thickness. This helps a lot on more flexible fabrics that want to just crumple instead of slide under the clip.

1+


I was just thinking about that.


Also how about bringing the end of the entrance ramp up a bit. Up to the level of the rest of the clip.

And adding a small straight section at the tip. Say 3mm. I can do a drawing.

J-Dub74
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hank wrote:
As to that little right angle that interferes when slipping the clip over the edge of a pocket, you should compare the OrcaTorch T11, which has a smooth transition there that avoids the problem completely:

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/47035#comment-975987

Thanks hank. That’s about what I had in my head for that little ramp area which is now a snag point on the Convoy clip. That picture helps. I think that’s essentially what Halo was getting at too. My concern with that type of design is the thinner band we have to work with as the attachment point. You need to add a little rounded relief into the metal at the “T”. You can see right where they did that with the Orca clip and it looks spot on but the Orca clip looks like it has around 4-5mm to work with where we have 2.5mm. That doesn’t leave enough metal for us to add that necessary “U” notch in the metal at the proper point that eliminates or drastically reduces the stress-fracture point. Another thing I considerred is just widening the clip groove in the S2+ and eventually the rest of the S series so that we can design a truly proper clip. That however doesn’t do anything for all of the lights that we already have. I appreciate all the input everyone has given here. More thinking to do…
Gurthang
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Just found this thread and I have a question. Will this clip fit any of the SolarForce hosts sold by MTN Elec.? I’ve been looking for a good deep carry clip for my L2T/P lights. Thanks.

Halo...
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J-Dub74 wrote:
My concern with that type of design is the thinner band we have to work with as the attachment point. You need to add a little rounded relief into the metal at the “T”. You can see right where they did that with the Orca clip and it looks spot on but the Orca clip looks like it has around 4-5mm to work with where we have 2.5mm. That doesn’t leave enough metal for us to add that necessary “U” notch in the metal at the proper point that eliminates or drastically reduces the stress-fracture point.
Yea, quietly I knew that would kill it. The width of the clip-on band is so narrow.




How about this method of creating a ramp?


RotorHead64
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Nice idea Halo. If it’s done right that would work.

scianiac
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I agree, that is a very nice design, and unlike any ramps or anything it will be super close to the light body so even thin fabrics can’t get caught under the ramp. I wonder if the triangular areas connected to the ramp could be tilted outward slightly. This I think would make the ramp a lower angle but more importantly it would make the bends in the metal there a larger angle so it can be formed easier.

Co-owner/Engineer at STO Flashlights.

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scianiac wrote:
I wonder if the triangular areas connected to the ramp could be tilted outward slightly. This I think would make the ramp a lower angle but more importantly it would make the bends in the metal there a larger angle so it can be formed easier.
All the angles can be adjusted. If I had some scrap sheet metal I would do an example of how you’re suggesting. Just easier to adjust and hold angles even on both sides with metal. Anyone have a spare can of soda, pop, beer?
hank
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Yep, very nice design from Halo. I hope this gets worked out.
Anyone have access to one of those super sheet metal cutters that use water jets or lasers?

Aside: I just tried to open out the 180-degree bend in one of my Convoy clips.
It eventually snapped right off, in the middle of the 180-degree bend.

keltex78
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This point is a concern to me:

Walking near vehicles… I’m always paranoid about the tip of a pocket clip scratching the paint when I’m walking past something. Just something to keep in mind.


Keepin’ the “B” in BLF

Don wrote:
It sounds like the XM LEDs won’t really be suitable for flashlight use. Pity…

quetzalcoatl
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Like the Manker e11.. I dislike the clip!

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hank wrote:
I just tried to open out the 180-degree bend in one of my Convoy clips.
It eventually snapped right off, in the middle of the 180-degree bend.

Anneal it first to reduce the brittleness. Take a blow torch to the bend. Heat till glowing hot. You could also try a torch lighter if you don’t have anything larger.
If you find that it doesn’t hold as tight onto a pocket as before you can re-harden it. Bending (at any part that was red hot) can work harden it. You’ll feel it getting harder to bend. Or you could try tempering it in your oven at 148-205°C (298-401°F).




keltex78 wrote:
This point is a concern to me:

Walking near vehicles… I’m always paranoid about the tip of a pocket clip scratching the paint when I’m walking past something. Just something to keep in mind.

Heat shrink! Party

keltex78
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Halo… wrote:
Heat shrink! Party


http://budgetlightforum.com/node/37072


Keepin’ the “B” in BLF

Don wrote:
It sounds like the XM LEDs won’t really be suitable for flashlight use. Pity…

J-Dub74
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A lot of good input here guys. I love the design concept halo posted but I’m concerned about those angles. If they aren’t done just right we have a whole lot of scrap metal and I don’t know if Simon’s source is equipped to properly pull off those angle bends. Still, I will present that to Simon as one concept to see if he thinks it could be achieved. One area of concern I have in that design is you’re starting almost 180 degree bend coming out of a circle so you have to flatten the circle as it bends. Probably not the best explanation but I don’t have time to do a drawing right now. The clip redesign may take quite a while. It took a long time for the first one. A completely new design could take several months to get right so patience will be required on all sides. For now I’d just be happy opening the gap to fit a hat bill. This is top of mind for me because I had Simon add a groove in the head of the S2+ for the reverse hat mount. You should see it in the release of the next model S2+. It should work really nicely on the shorties especially on a tricked out shorty like the ones vestureofblood is selling now. Those are way cool. Cool

hank
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How about anodizing instead of the black paint?

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J-Dub74 wrote:
One area of concern I have in that design is you’re starting almost 180 degree bend coming out of a circle so you have to flatten the circle as it bends. Probably not the best explanation but I don’t have time to do a drawing right now.
Hmm, I don’t think I have any 180° bends. 90° should be the highest. And those could be reduced as Scianiac suggested.
Maybe the bottom of the ramp? Corner. Yea, that spot is a concern. Probably better to not have the ramp go all the way down, not meet the flashlight. That way we can avoid that corner.

J-Dub74 wrote:
The clip redesign may take quite a while. It took a long time for the first one. A completely new design could take several months to get right so patience will be required on all sides. For now I’d just be happy opening the gap to fit a hat bill.
Oh yea, Of course. Major redesigns are maybe shooting for version 3.
Perhaps even hold off presenting it to Simon since it could be improved. Better to present him with a mulled over version.
hank
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Quote:
I’d just be happy opening the gap to fit a hat bill.

Agreed, and I wonder if it would be helpful to specify the radius curve desired
(that is, to say “heat ___ this much length of the flat metal, then put a rod of this exact diameter inside the curve as you bend it so each one is the same, and the curve does not get too flat”

Mine (I bought five, quite a while ago) look like they may have been bent by eye, and bent after heating not enough of the metal, so the result was too tight.

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hank wrote:
How about anodizing instead of the black paint?

The clip is stainless so anodizing is out. I’ve asked Simon about going to PVD coating though which would be tougher that the current painted metal.
hank
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Stainless? Really??
Ask what alloy. The ones I have are highly magnetizable, and I’ve never seen stainless snap like this.

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hank wrote:
Stainless? Really??
Ask what alloy. The ones I have are highly magnetizable, and I’ve never seen stainless snap like this.

Maybe I’m wrong. Question The first ones were as the intent was a polished clip but that wasn’t working out so he went to painting them black. It could be the metal was changed at that time too. I’ll ask. Did you order these from Simon’s Aliexpress store?
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Yes, I bought five from Simon’s Ali store, soon after they first came available.
Black.

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Halo… wrote:
scianiac wrote:
The most important change to me though is the entrance ramp that J-Dub circled in his second pic. I wish that ramp on the end was a much shallower angle and in turn was longer to maintain the same intake thickness. This helps a lot on more flexible fabrics that want to just crumple instead of slide under the clip.

1+


I was just thinking about that.


Also how about bringing the end of the entrance ramp up a bit. Up to the level of the rest of the clip.

And adding a small straight section at the tip. Say 3mm. I can do a drawing.


I started tweaking numbers a bit today. As I said my immediate concern is that the gap is wide enough to slip over a hat bill. I’d rather not add another straight section at the tip unless someone can give a good argument for it. I’m fairly certain I know what you’re referring to and I’ve never seen the point of that and I don’t want to add length to the clip. I have a few pocket knives with that type of flat at the end and I’ve never cared for it. That’s just my opinion of course.
Is it this style you refer to? It’s umm, one of the things I got rid of in the first round of revisions. Blushing

If you have a good argument for it I’ll certainly hear you out though. I’ll see what I can do about a lesser angle for the entrance ramp and maybe extending it a little but not too much. Making the entrance ramp angle less would require it be a bit longer anyway but I don’t want the overall length to be any longer than the existing clip which is roughly 65mm.

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J-Dub74 wrote:
Is it this style you refer to? It’s umm, one of the things I got rid of in the first round of revisions. Blushing

Well, yea, that’s the idea.
But wow, that is long!

I was thinking just a couple millimeters. Barely there.
I think it’s suppose to help when the fabric wants to crumple instead of sliding under. But for me, I just think it looks much better, like a more finished end. Also it pokes into you less when facing in. And when facing out it might help with this:

keltex78 wrote:
This point is a concern to me:

Walking near vehicles… I’m always paranoid about the tip of a pocket clip scratching the paint when I’m walking past something. Just something to keep in mind.

RotorHead64
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hank wrote:
Stainless? Really?? Ask what alloy. The ones I have are highly magnetizable, and I've never seen stainless snap like this.

+1. I guess it could be stainless but regardless it's way to brittle. Whatever kind of steel is used it should be spring tempered. If there's a problem with the clip retention to the flashlight with spring tempered steel then the thickness of the material needs to be increased. 

In my opinion .040" spring tempered 304SS minimum should be used for any type of a clip.

If it was made with .040-.045" Ti-6Al-4V annealed titanium it would be way less prone to snapping, easily bent back into shape if needed by hot forming to exact tolerances for perfect fit. It looks good naked too

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J-Dub74, my son is getting a harder and harder time with you pumping out these Convoy gems
Today we discussed the clear C8, he likes his grey bistro OP XPLHI NW very much but I am using it a lot so he was tempted to say “yeah that clear is wortg ordering” yet with his 11 years he is wiser then his dad so he was honest he just loves the gun grey.

One reason for using his is the clip and this topic.
I have no issues using the clip on the C8, it gives enough to hang it on any pair of pants.

Yet I think you missed a comment of me so when you are still want to improve the clip you should really look at the clip used here:
http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/996256
Really awesome and a real improvement to the current one (IMHO since I like the current one a lot)
Here stealing a pic from that review

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@ The Miller:

Yes you are correct. I had not seen that thread. It’s bedtime for me right now so I can dig in too deep but thank you for mentioning this clip. Interesting design. I submitted a subtle revision of the clip to Simon a while back to take the deep-carry a bit deeper and widen the gap for hat mount and thicker work pants. I also suggested slightly increasing the metal thickness for added rigidity. I’m following up on that and a few other possible tweaks. Simon is quite busy at the moment so I’m getting very limited responses but we can discuss this a bit more for sure.

Cheers!

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Found this thread linked on the mtn page for the clip. I’ll be ordering a s2 host tomorrow to finally put a lucidrv driver that’s sitting here to use. It may not be the most durable choice but I have plenty of the .080” ti-6-4 I’m using for the fan mounting plate on my custom build and a piece of .052” ti-6-4 and plan to try making a clip. The ti should look pretty good on a grey host. I’ll post the results.

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