A wish, out loud, to those organizing a group buy.
Tell the supplier they will benefit by including, say, ten or twenty percent HOSTS along with finished lights.
Tell them that’s the ideal at BLF, something everyone should think about doing.
Raise the bar for manufacturers — tell them to support modifying lights, not just marketing lights.
You may think this is bad for the manufacturer (and they may think so as well).
Here’s why it’s a good idea to do it this way.
It benefits the larger group, the people at BLF who build and improve lights, by getting them the best hosts as they become available, and
the Ikea Effect is strong in this one.
What’s that, you may ask?
People give higher ratings to things they assembled themselves (even if they have trouble doing that).
Unfortunately the big name brand manufacturers will probably never go that route. There is a lot going on that most do not know and one of the biggest reasons the manufacturers are not very active is not because of their business model but rather the way people have been behaving on this forum.
If we want the manufacturers to listen we must be civilized and rational unless everybody is happy with the status quo.
The “Ikea effect” is also seen in some packaged foods.
A person who cooks, yet buys the occasional instant pre-packaged dish, may have noticed that the instant meal sometimes seems to require to the bafflement of some, an additional step or (ingredient) or two, that seems like it could have been done to or added into the original package, the reason is that the manufacturer have learned that the woman/mother feels as though she has cooked the dish herself, and is more emotionally satisfied with it.
This was being exploited since at least the 1950s. (Hello Don Draper of Madmen)
I like this idea, but the execution must be done with full cooperation… Like Bugsy36 said, read some of the threads and look at the anger/hissyfits/huffing that went on in the BLF A6 GB over stuff like finishes. Type III anodizing costs money, name a light under $25 with Type III (true type III), DTP copper, top bin XPL, custom clicky firmware that has all its features, etc…
But,but,but the clip sucks…. Nowhere was a clip mentioned until the project progressed… Then throw it out, but since the expectation is there, we gotta have it…
If we as BLF manage our expectations on these to what we are getting for the money, that goes a long way to helping us help ourselves to better relationships with the manufacturers…. And better lights will come….
A list of BLF standards as a sticky would help for that as well, but just for the essential technical items. Such as, In all BLF custom lights we want:
1. DTP copper mounted LED’s
2. Etc.
3. Etc.
Five or so items should cover it as a standard, the rest is up to the Group Buy coordinator…
Or if is a stock light like the BLF 348 with only an emitter swap, then the GB coordinator can work that out too…
My $.02
(And I like the BLF A6 clip, not great, but better than nothing…)
I’m suggesting this because I think it’d work for people trying to set up new group buys,
if a pattern can be pointed out as raising the manufacturer’s profile in good ways.
We’ve all seen (and many of us contributed to) nitpickery about details.
And yeah, that’s a drag and an annoyance.
I can believe it drives manufacturers away from participating, because they get hassled.
That’s what got me thinking, could this be better?
If a host were offered, nitpickery could be simply answered by saying, well,
get on the list for a host, when they’re shipped out, do one better and post your mods, you might inspire the next Version 2, or 3 …
What most of us don’t have is good solid well machined hosts aplenty to spare to put parts into.
As ‘Scoop’ Nisker said about the news — if you don’t like it, go out and make your own.
That’d be a good answer to nitpickery — and threads here as people do mods would benefit, I think.
So would custom driver makers, if they had a known quantity of special hosts out there waiting for improvements.
I am in agreement to the extent that positive thinking will improve things.
The brick wall that i am running across lately is the unreasonable expectations and ridiculously poor treatment of manufacturers and vendors. Many of the manufacturers feel interaction with BLF will be too costly to their reputation and just stick to their traditional ways of doing things and just avoid us. Basically this forum has not taken a step back as much as starting to fall off of a cliff backwards and for childish behavior. There are a few of us that for the longest time have been trying to get things accomplished and we were steadily making headway until recently.
If people do not wise up then they just may as well get used to staying with only Convoy hosts (which are still good) and cloned UltraFire hosts. I have tried and instead get greeted with a mob mentality. If that is what this forum is destined to be then so be it.
I think that it is part of BLF being a mellow moderated forum that there will be people who do not behave, it is one side of the livelyhood/dynamics that makes this forum interesting IMO. And because bad behaviour will always be there, you may better not getting too annoyed about that it, but accept it and just try to correct folks in a friendly way.
This expression of good and bad behaviour what a public forum is, may not make a forum a great partner for a manufacturer, but it is what it is, you can not blame a forum for being a forum.
I does not matter to me as I do not make a living doing any of this. It is something I enjoy doing but with that said chasing away manufacturers and vendors is not good no matter how you look at it. It is just a bad way of doing things and just because the admin places faith that people will ultimately do the right thing does not give people carte blanche to act like children. Just as they would not want to be censored there are many that have the feeling of "why bother?". It is truly a two way street and many here think they can just do whatever whenever just because it is the internet but in no way would conduct themselves like this in public.
Bugsy36, the past history is there, but — for this thread, looking futureward — it’s past.
Can you imagine — or let others imagine and kick around the idea — to encourage anyone setting up a new group buy to include the request to have ten or twenty percent hosts?
It’s future, it’s “can we imagine something different” for people who might do it.
Sure the past teaches us problems to foresee. I mentioned some.
You don’t want to offer 300 hosts and have one guy buy them all and set up in competition.
So, maybe — a GB including a design spec for a special host and a deal that if say 500 finished lights are committed, then 100 hosts will also be available, and
anyone who buys one complete light has the option to declare interest in buying one of those 100 hosts, til they’re gone.
What does this do for the manufacturer?
The ideas floated above, plus a few:
— offloads the nitpicking (“Make one of your own, get a host!”)
— Gets involvement from committed modders, whose ideas drive the future here.
— Acknowledges that the manufacturer is likely to keep making lights after the GB ends
— non-GB lights are likely to get cloned, or eventually made with cheaper innards
— so let them get started. Bodies labeled “BLF-Host” would be an honest label for their continuing run. Put their own name on the other side, no confusion at all.
Just playing with the idea of turning the “excess energy” (aka nitpickery) into profitable use.
As Joe Hill wrote: “Don’t waste any time mourning. Organize!”
I understand that the past is in the past. I have no issue with anybody imagining or trying either. What I have issue with is that a lot of work went frivolously down the tubes over childish and unreasonable behavior that manufacturers that I was dealing with have stepped back and have chosen to not deal with us because of the past. That is fine. Less competition means more money for the manufacturers and vendors and fewer choices for us.
Edit: Please do not misunderstand. I am not trying to bring down the idea. I am just pointing out that it is more of an improbable task than probable because of the events of late that have turned many away.