*BLF LT1 Lantern Project* (LT1 GB is Active! (first batch available)

8369 posts / 0 new
Last post
DavidEF
DavidEF's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 6 min ago
Joined: 06/05/2014 - 06:00
Posts: 7646
Location: Salisbury, North Carolina, USA

sbslider wrote:
@ Cpeng, definitely not an idiot, you’ve not been around for long and lots has happened over the past couple years of this project. Don’t hesitate to ask questions, most of us are a cordial bunch. I don’t think anyone is being rude, but it may come across that way in text sometimes. Folks are just interested in getting this done and into our hands. I know for one that I could really use this in about a month, but don’t expect it to be ready by then.

3000th thread post Thumbs Up Beer


Yeah, I agree. Cpeng, sorry if I was coming off as impatient or rude. We don’t mind you asking questions. Thumbs Up

The Cycle of Goodness: “No one prospers without rendering benefit to others”
- The YKK Philosophy

Cpeng
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 9 hours ago
Joined: 10/06/2018 - 22:49
Posts: 27
Location: California

DavidEF wrote:
sbslider wrote:
@ Cpeng, definitely not an idiot, you’ve not been around for long and lots has happened over the past couple years of this project. Don’t hesitate to ask questions, most of us are a cordial bunch. I don’t think anyone is being rude, but it may come across that way in text sometimes. Folks are just interested in getting this done and into our hands. I know for one that I could really use this in about a month, but don’t expect it to be ready by then.

3000th thread post Thumbs Up Beer


Yeah, I agree. Cpeng, sorry if I was coming off as impatient or rude. We don’t mind you asking questions. Thumbs Up

Yeah I don’t think anyone was being rude, I thought there was a simple answer and there wasn’t. Its better to get responses that I wasn’t expecting rather then no response so I thank everyone for that.

djozz
djozz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 hours 13 min ago
Joined: 09/07/2012 - 17:04
Posts: 15808
Location: Amsterdam

@Cpeng

A reason that is easily overlooked for using a simple and well-tested driver design:

We are developing flashlights in cooperation with a chinese manufacturer (Sofirn) who is halfway around the globe for most of us. We can not pay a visit to check what’s going on, everything must be communicated via the internet through cultural and language barriers, and they are not the most technically advanced flashlight manufacturer around. We chose this manufacturer because they are prepared to work with us and they are able to sell the lantern for the budget price we like to see.

Anything what is new to them is received with reluctance, for them to get used to it takes time, and progress must be meticulously checked by us at every stage because they can knowlingly or by naivety change any detail at any moment, possibly ruining the design. New stuff can always be done, but the process can be made more easy and will speed up by keeping it simple and familiar for them.

Sofirn is accustomed with the type of driver we are now using in the lantern, it is very much like the Q8 driver. It is different in some details (the tint ramping requires some changes in the PCB design) but they understand it and have the components in house. Furthermore, here on BLF is so much knowledge on this type of driver that we can predict pretty well beforehand how it will behave in the lantern, with just some finetuning of the software.

Without knowing details about driver designing, from what I pick up, designing a buck driver is already challenging enough for BLF (but can be done by some of the driver guru’s around) but then it must be prototyped and tested and both the hardware and software finetuned in the lantern. And Sofirn is for sure not able to do much tuning, so for several stages in the design process prototypes must be sent around the world for testing. This is a much longer process, the reward in the end is a better more efficient driver, but only achieved with lots more effort.

I think..

DBSAR
DBSAR's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 39 min ago
Joined: 02/11/2013 - 23:28
Posts: 5882
Location: Ontario, Canada

All i am waiting for now is any updates from Barry form his engineers, and if Lexel can build a driver test unit to send Toykeeper to test the firmware on.

That Canadian flashlight guy & Lantern Guru -Den / DBSARlight

ToyKeeper
ToyKeeper's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 18 min ago
Joined: 01/12/2013 - 14:40
Posts: 9958
Location: (469219) 2016 HO3

I’m mostly just waiting. I’ve done all I can for now.

https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~toykeeper/flashlight-firmware/blf-lantern/...

DBSAR
DBSAR's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 39 min ago
Joined: 02/11/2013 - 23:28
Posts: 5882
Location: Ontario, Canada

ToyKeeper wrote:
I’m mostly just waiting. I’ve done all I can for now.

https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~toykeeper/flashlight-firmware/blf-lantern/...

Same here. I don’t know if Lexel will build the test driver, but Barry mentioned to me tonight they will need a driver prototype to work on for the lantern.

That Canadian flashlight guy & Lantern Guru -Den / DBSARlight

jdavis
jdavis's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 59 min ago
Joined: 08/18/2018 - 16:09
Posts: 20
Location: SC in USA

I’m interested as well. Count me in please.

Jeff

Cpeng
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 9 hours ago
Joined: 10/06/2018 - 22:49
Posts: 27
Location: California

djozz wrote:
@Cpeng

A reason that is easily overlooked for using a simple and well-tested driver design:

We are developing flashlights in cooperation with a chinese manufacturer (Sofirn) who is halfway around the globe for most of us. We can not pay a visit to check what’s going on, everything must be communicated via the internet through cultural and language barriers, and they are not the most technically advanced flashlight manufacturer around. We chose this manufacturer because they are prepared to work with us and they are able to sell the lantern for the budget price we like to see.

Anything what is new to them is received with reluctance, for them to get used to it takes time, and progress must be meticulously checked by us at every stage because they can knowlingly or by naivety change any detail at any moment, possibly ruining the design. New stuff can always be done, but the process can be made more easy and will speed up by keeping it simple and familiar for them.

Sofirn is accustomed with the type of driver we are now using in the lantern, it is very much like the Q8 driver. It is different in some details (the tint ramping requires some changes in the PCB design) but they understand it and have the components in house. Furthermore, here on BLF is so much knowledge on this type of driver that we can predict pretty well beforehand how it will behave in the lantern, with just some finetuning of the software.

Without knowing details about driver designing, from what I pick up, designing a buck driver is already challenging enough for BLF (but can be done by some of the driver guru’s around) but then it must be prototyped and tested and both the hardware and software finetuned in the lantern. And Sofirn is for sure not able to do much tuning, so for several stages in the design process prototypes must be sent around the world for testing. This is a much longer process, the reward in the end is a better more efficient driver, but only achieved with lots more effort.

I think..

Well said and that makes perfect sense. Thumbs Up

jigsaw
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 2 min ago
Joined: 01/15/2016 - 17:35
Posts: 208
Location: Michigan, USA

Has there been any progress at all with this project, or is it at a complete standstill?

Coscar
Coscar's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 44 min ago
Joined: 01/03/2016 - 20:16
Posts: 482
Location: Gulf Coast

No ……….. yawn……. zzzzzzzz ~~~~~~

Im not a Pessimist …. just an Optimist with a lot of experience

spinynorman
Offline
Last seen: 8 hours 48 min ago
Joined: 02/07/2017 - 16:14
Posts: 197
Location: Eastern NC

Compared to the FW3A project, this one is moving at the speed of light. Cool

turbiny
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 10/27/2018 - 11:38
Posts: 4
Location: macedonia

also interested, depending on price
will it be able to run on 1/2/3 18650?

T18
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 1 week ago
Joined: 02/14/2016 - 15:29
Posts: 1163

Finally I have had the time to read the entire build progress and all I can think is that I love it, and can I please be put on the interest list..?

One thing I didn’t find was pricing ? Probably just missed it.

Thanks for all the hard work DBSAR and to your team as well.

BlueSwordM
BlueSwordM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 46 min ago
Joined: 11/29/2017 - 12:34
Posts: 5347
Location: Canada

@turbiny, yes, that is the advantage of using 4×18650s in parallel.

You can use 1-4×18650s in the light.

Just don’t put 1-3x fully charged cells with 1 partially discharged cell. Bad things could happen.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

sbslider
sbslider's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 hours 39 min ago
Joined: 01/22/2017 - 13:41
Posts: 1301
Location: United States

As far as price goes, nothing is settled but likely $30-$40 I believe.

Recent additions to the interest list include:
1066 T18
1067 mgracia85
1068 skroober
1069 skroober
1070 Mediocre99
1071 Kame Sennin
1072 asderferjerkel
1073 bmansc
1074 lachesis
1075 Cpeng
1076 bmengineer
1077 jdavis
1078 turbiny

Several more first time posters showing interest in this lantern, including asderferjerkel, Mediocre99, and skroober, as well as turbiny’s second post on BLF. Welcome to BLF Beer

Note I somehow managed to skip 1066, so I put the last interested person, T18 there.

Master interest list can be accessed by most at the links below:

interest list sorted by entry number

interest list sorted by user names

PocketSammich wrote: I don’t need this, but I want it. Please sign me up.

DBSAR
DBSAR's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 39 min ago
Joined: 02/11/2013 - 23:28
Posts: 5882
Location: Ontario, Canada
jigsaw wrote:
Has there been any progress at all with this project, or is it at a complete standstill?

were working on it, and waiting fro more info from the manufacturer and other team members.

That Canadian flashlight guy & Lantern Guru -Den / DBSARlight

SIGShooter
SIGShooter's picture
Online
Last seen: 5 min 52 sec ago
Joined: 07/14/2013 - 02:10
Posts: 1703
Location: northern california

BlueSwordM wrote:
@turbiny, yes, that is the advantage of using 4×18650s in parallel.

You can use 1-4×18650s in the light.

Just don’t put 1-3x fully charged cells with 1 partially discharged cell. Bad things could happen.


I see this mentioned often but has anyone ever had an issue doing this? I’ve mixed fully charged cells with partially discharged cells and haven’t experience anything out of the ordinary.

9mm/40cal/45cal bullets and large/small pistol primers available for sale in San Francisco Bay area

Tom Tom
Offline
Last seen: 6 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 09/10/2017 - 08:30
Posts: 1163

SIGShooter wrote:
BlueSwordM wrote:
@turbiny, yes, that is the advantage of using 4×18650s in parallel.

You can use 1-4×18650s in the light.

Just don’t put 1-3x fully charged cells with 1 partially discharged cell. Bad things could happen.


I see this mentioned often but has anyone ever had an issue doing this? I’ve mixed fully charged cells with partially discharged cells and haven’t experience anything out of the ordinary.

Agreed, it is something like an urban myth.

Cells discharge, and re-charge curves are much the same. They will balance out, quite quickly.

It is probably not ideal to do this so fast, but I very much doubt that anything bad will happen.

sbslider
sbslider's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 hours 39 min ago
Joined: 01/22/2017 - 13:41
Posts: 1301
Location: United States

there are a lot of factors as to it/how much trouble one could experience doing this. State of charge of the cells, internal resistance of the cells, the resistance of what is connecting them, the peak current capability of the cells, and others. It’s not a sure problem in every instance, but its also not a good practice to do routinely. Just like ideally you don’t charge cells on a pile of newspapers. Probably nothing happens, but if a cell did overheat, then you have lots of fuel to get your fire started. Especially the way BlueswordM created the scenario. Three charged cells trying to dump current into one discharged cells is definitely a bad practice.

PocketSammich wrote: I don’t need this, but I want it. Please sign me up.

Tom Tom
Offline
Last seen: 6 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 09/10/2017 - 08:30
Posts: 1163
sbslider wrote:
Three charged cells trying to dump current into one discharged cells is definitely a bad practice.

Like I said, the discharged cell will only accept the charge at it’s own rate.

Basically all that is going on is that a cell is being connected to a low impedance voltage source of max. 4.2V.

Which, I don’t think is any danger at-all. Though it may not be good for the cells, long term.

It could be pushed in a lot harder.

These are not the fragile delicate dangerous scary things that some seem to think.

Otherwise you’d never dare to connect your EV to a supercharger and put in 80% energy in 15 minutes.

ToyKeeper
ToyKeeper's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 18 min ago
Joined: 01/12/2013 - 14:40
Posts: 9958
Location: (469219) 2016 HO3

I have a damaged Skyray King here which suggests the issue is more than an urban legend. The “balance out, quite quickly” thing can happen fast enough to melt springs.

Tom Tom
Offline
Last seen: 6 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 09/10/2017 - 08:30
Posts: 1163
ToyKeeper wrote:
I have a damaged Skyray King here which suggests the issue is more than an urban legend. The “balance out, quite quickly” thing can happen fast enough to melt springs.

That’s probably a problem with the springs, not the cells. Or overall safety. Or maybe something was put in backwards ?

Still a real issue though. And not ideal. But no obvious alternative, unless we only have cells in series, which is hardly a practical way forward for many devices, and introduces a load of other concerns.

beastlykings
beastlykings's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 14 min ago
Joined: 12/29/2017 - 17:06
Posts: 190
Location: Michigan, USA

I wouldn’t mix cells of varying voltages if you paid me. I’m from the RC drone world, a lot of us use balance boards to charge several 3-6s lipo packs at a time in parallel. These boards connect the main discharge leads in parallel, and the balance leads in parallel.

Rule of thumb is never connect packs with cells that are larger than 0.1v difference to each other, or balance current can melt wires/damage cells. I push that rule to 0.2v sometimes, but I make sure to connect the higher voltage pack to a bank of lower voltage packs, never the other way around. Why? Discharge current. These batteries don’t like being charge rapidly. They’ll take it, sure. But they don’t like it.

The packs I use are rated for 5c charging current. That’s basically mAh capacity converted to Ah capacity, and then charge at an amperage equal to the Ah rate. Have a 3,000mah pack? That’s 3Ah, so a 1c charge rate is 3 amps. 2c is 6amps, 3c is 9amps, etc.

Discharge current between two packs at 0.2v difference per cell can be 5 or 10 amps, sometimes more, at least briefly.

To connect two batteries, one full and one dead, together, is to essentially cause a dead short. You’re gonna pull a crap ton of current out of the full battery, and dump it into the low one.

This would be bad enough with my lipo’s, with their high charge rate capacity of 5c. But the cells we use usually have a max charge rate of 0.5 or maybe 1c. The 30q has a max charge rate of 1.3c, or about 4amps. But in my experience they get warm charging at 0.3c, or 1amp.

So to mix cells of large voltage difference, and generate that massive balance current? Melting springs? Yeah, no thanks. Maybe it won’t blow up in your face, in fact it probably won’t. But dang it if it isn’t really bad for the battery, and potentially your face. No thanks, I’ll pass.

Sorry for the rant, of course you’re welcome to do as you please. But I agree with TK, it’s not an urban legend. Even if it’s not as bad as I’ve made it out to be, it’s still not good. Please don’t do it.

ToyKeeper
ToyKeeper's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 18 min ago
Joined: 01/12/2013 - 14:40
Posts: 9958
Location: (469219) 2016 HO3
Tom Tom wrote:
That’s probably a problem with the springs

No, that was the springs doing their job correctly. They’re supposed to act as fuses in case anything like this happens. I’m lucky it was only the springs which got damaged.

… and that was with weak old NCR18650A cells. I’d hate to see what happens with a set of mismatched high-amp cells with bypassed or low-resistance springs.

Tom Tom
Offline
Last seen: 6 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 09/10/2017 - 08:30
Posts: 1163

This was something we worried about when designing the Q8, and looked into fusible links etc. on the tail PCB.

I did some tests and found it was not too bad. In that implementation.

We decided not to bother with that and rely on people being grown-up and responsible for their own actions.

But of course a 4P arrangement like a Q8 or SRK has a multitude of opportunities for putting in the cells incorrectly.

agent80
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 53 min ago
Joined: 01/06/2013 - 02:28
Posts: 363

I’m interested. When will it be up for sale.

efi5phd
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 3 weeks ago
Joined: 10/26/2018 - 11:33
Posts: 12

Interested

Coscar
Coscar's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 44 min ago
Joined: 01/03/2016 - 20:16
Posts: 482
Location: Gulf Coast
agent80 wrote:
I’m interested. When will it be up for sale.

Cant help but think of the sign in my local bar …..“Free Beer Tomorrow”

Im not a Pessimist …. just an Optimist with a lot of experience

skroober
Offline
Last seen: 5 hours 20 min ago
Joined: 10/11/2018 - 16:24
Posts: 16
Location: United States

Any idea if this will need high drain batteries like the 30Q? Or will NCR18650GA work fine?

BlueSwordM
BlueSwordM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 46 min ago
Joined: 11/29/2017 - 12:34
Posts: 5347
Location: Canada

This is a low power regulated light, using NCR18650Bs, Samsung 26Fs, etc, are perfectly fine within the power constraints of the light.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

Pages