*BLF LT1 Lantern Project* (Post #6078 Lantern GB Price announced!

6949 posts / 0 new
Last post
zeroflow
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 2 days ago
Joined: 05/23/2017 - 02:15
Posts: 189
Location: Austria

I’m not really sure if that amount of vias may become problematic in the long run and/or if maybe a single row somewhere the tube doesn’t make contat would already be enough.

Other than that: Nice layout, programming pins, permanent and switched indicator light and what looks like a thermal sensor?

ToyKeeper
ToyKeeper's picture
Offline
Last seen: 55 min 22 sec ago
Joined: 01/12/2013 - 14:40
Posts: 9801
Location: (469219) 2016 HO3
zeroflow wrote:
Other than that: Nice layout, programming pins, permanent and switched indicator light and what looks like a thermal sensor?

I’m kind of hoping that there won’t be a permanent / always-on button light. I want to be able to turn it off sometimes, and will probably disconnect it if it’s not controllable by firmware.

There is no plan to use a thermal sensor, because the built-in tiny85 sensor is way too far from where the heat is, external sensors are totally untested, last I heard no pins were allocated to an external sensor, and the light is designed to be incapable of overheating anyway. So I’m not sure why that’s there.

zeroflow
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 2 days ago
Joined: 05/23/2017 - 02:15
Posts: 189
Location: Austria
ToyKeeper wrote:
zeroflow wrote:
Other than that: Nice layout, programming pins, permanent and switched indicator light and what looks like a thermal sensor?

I’m kind of hoping that there won’t be a permanent / always-on button light. I want to be able to turn it off sometimes, and will probably disconnect it if it’s not controllable by firmware.

There is no plan to use a thermal sensor, because the built-in tiny85 sensor is way too far from where the heat is, external sensors are totally untested, last I heard no pins were allocated to an external sensor, and the light is designed to be incapable of overheating anyway. So I’m not sure why that’s there.

From the PCB, it looks like there is a permanent LED with a solder jumper and a potentiometer on the battery side so it can be set without disassembly.

Yes, there is no pin reserved for that, it looks like that can be modded afterwars by a few solder joints. I suspect it’s there because it adds no cost to include it as unpopulated pads on the PCB.

sbslider
sbslider's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 16 min ago
Joined: 01/22/2017 - 13:41
Posts: 1238
Location: United States

another list of entries for the interest list:

1121 burnsd
1122 light_man89
1123 PhantomPhoton
1124 gkushev
1125 lumiere
1126 lumiere
1127 Marty6664
1128 Marty6664
1129 Xenon
1130 Xenon
1131 Vaxd

interest list sorted by entry number

interest list sorted by user names

PocketSammich wrote: I don’t need this, but I want it. Please sign me up.

Plotthound
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 14 min ago
Joined: 05/27/2018 - 06:46
Posts: 58
Location: New Hampshire USA

I’m interested.

DBSAR
DBSAR's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 44 min ago
Joined: 02/11/2013 - 23:28
Posts: 5766
Location: Ontario, Canada

Tom Tom wrote:
I hope that is just a quick and dirty prototype finish i.e. the HASL solder instead of e.g. ENIG plating for production.

Presumably it will be fitted with the Q8 brass contact ring ?

Looking forward to seeing it assembled and tested. Nice to see progress, and that you are continuing to make this happen, despite any personal worries.

Good luck.

yep most likely the brass contact ring is to be added.

That Canadian flashlight guy & Lantern Guru -Den / DBSARlight

niktak11
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 5 hours ago
Joined: 11/26/2016 - 04:51
Posts: 109
Location: United States

I’m interested

Tom Tom
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 09/10/2017 - 08:30
Posts: 1163

ToyKeeper wrote:

I’m kind of hoping that there won’t be a permanent / always-on button light. I want to be able to turn it off sometimes, and will probably disconnect it if it’s not controllable by firmware.

There is no plan to use a thermal sensor, because the built-in tiny85 sensor is way too far from where the heat is, external sensors are totally untested, last I heard no pins were allocated to an external sensor, and the light is designed to be incapable of overheating anyway. So I’m not sure why that’s there.

Switch to pin 2

Switch LED is driven from pin 3, active high.

WW 7135 bank pin 5

NW bank pin 6

Remote thermal sensor appears to be provisioned on pin 7, which is pulled up to +V via a fixed resistor. Pads are provided to wire in a remote temperature sensor, maybe a PTC. Perhaps could instead be used to power aux-leds etc. if e.g. the fixed resistor was removed. Not too familiar with what pin 7 can and can’t do.

That’s what I think I’ve deduced from a first glance.

PS: if looking to evaluate remote temperature sensor PTCs, I’s suggest looking at the KTY range.

https://www.nxp.com/products/sensors/other-sensors/silicon-temperature-s...

I’ve been using KTYs in automotive applications for decades, starting with the KTY13, they work well, and if you calibrate them individually (probably not necessary), can be extremely precise. This would be easy in a torch, a 2-point cal. say after soaking at say zero C (plastic bag wrapped, in bucket of melting ice), then the second cal. point after soaking at ambient, or a known higher temperature.

Tom Tom
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 09/10/2017 - 08:30
Posts: 1163
zeroflow wrote:
I’m not really sure if that amount of vias may become problematic in the long run and/or if maybe a single row somewhere the tube doesn’t make contat would already be enough.

Agreed. Unnecessary for electrical, or thermal reasons, possibly damaged if the tube contact surface rides over them, and maybe structurally weakening. Imagine a heavy drop, upside down, and perhaps the cells smashing the centre out of the driver, or just cracking it.

Every via on a PCB adds to the manufacturing time, i.e. production cost. They are drilled one at a time using very expensive machinery, and drills that wear out. It is not good practice to use them unnecessarily. Simplistically put, if you can halve the number of vias in your design you can also halve the run time in the drill shop, get twice the throughput, or only need half as many machines.

The Q8 approach is tried and tested, and I think would be a better design to follow, for this important detail. Even then, early Q8s had problems with contact between the tube and the driver, mainly down to mechanical issues with PCB flatness, screws, finishing of the tube etc. which were later satisfactorily resolved. I’m simply pointing out that getting this seemingly minor detail right, turned out not to be quite as easy as it seemed.

There were many lessons learned during Q8 development and early production, hopefully there won’t be too many new ones (or old ones re-discovered) this time around.

Again, if that is a HASL finish (it certainly looks like it), and it is also intended to be used in production, then it would be incorrect for this application. It would wear through rapidly at the contact surface with the tube. It would also have to be RoHS compliant lead-free HASL.

The finish specified for the Q8 tube contact face should be used. It was carefully considered. Even then Thorfire did not follow the specified design, and what was delivered is not as good (too thin), but works well enough.

I also suggest double-checking the clearance of the components at the very edge, in the USB area. Are they definitely going to clear the metalwork inside the head ?

Otherwise it’s very interesting, I see lots of good ideas on this layout, and some experimental stuff too. Nice work.

ZozzV6
ZozzV6's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 hours 11 min ago
Joined: 03/24/2016 - 12:19
Posts: 2297
Location: Near to my soldering iron.

Currently I’m on the list for one but please add me for 2 more lanterns in total of 3.

DBSAR
DBSAR's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 44 min ago
Joined: 02/11/2013 - 23:28
Posts: 5766
Location: Ontario, Canada

sbslider wrote:
another list of entries for the interest list:

1121 burnsd
1122 light_man89
1123 PhantomPhoton
1124 gkushev
1125 lumiere
1126 lumiere
1127 Marty6664
1128 Marty6664
1129 Xenon
1130 Xenon
1131 Vaxd

Updated OP, Thanks!

That Canadian flashlight guy & Lantern Guru -Den / DBSARlight

7YP160214
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 4 weeks ago
Joined: 11/13/2018 - 21:23
Posts: 7

Wow! Has another stock driver been designed with more consideration for mods after buying? I may or may not get a BLF Lantern, but I certainly hope this trend in driver design continues!

Tom Tom
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 09/10/2017 - 08:30
Posts: 1163

zeroflow wrote:

From the PCB, it looks like there is a permanent LED with a solder jumper and a potentiometer on the battery side so it can be set without disassembly.

Yes, there is no pin reserved for that, it looks like that can be modded afterwars by a few solder joints. I suspect it’s there because it adds no cost to include it as unpopulated pads on the PCB.

No, I think that the switch LED, called indic is driven from pin 3 of the MCU, via a fixed R_indic.

The pot is associated with something different called loc. LED, and can either be permanently powered by R_loc, or instead via POT_loc and thence supplied either permanently or by a connection to the powerbank inductor, solder-splash jumper selectable.

The Loc LED circuit is shared with the remote thermal sensor pads, so with suitable configuration could drive some thing else. I see a lot of experimental ideas going on here.

It would be a lot easier to understand if Lexel would just publish a schematic diagram, and maybe a brief technical description.

Lexel
Lexel's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 46 min ago
Joined: 11/01/2016 - 08:00
Posts: 5246
Location: Germany

Tom Tom wrote:
zeroflow wrote:

From the PCB, it looks like there is a permanent LED with a solder jumper and a potentiometer on the battery side so it can be set without disassembly.

Yes, there is no pin reserved for that, it looks like that can be modded afterwars by a few solder joints. I suspect it’s there because it adds no cost to include it as unpopulated pads on the PCB.

No, I think that the switch LED, called indic is driven from pin 3 of the MCU, via a fixed R_indic.

The pot is associated with something different called loc. LED, and can either be permanently powered by R_loc, or instead via POT_loc and thence supplied either permanently or by a connection to the powerbank inductor, solder-splash jumper selectable.

The Loc LED circuit is shared with the remote thermal sensor pads, so with suitable configuration could drive some thing else. I see a lot of experimental ideas going on here.

It would be a lot easier to understand if Lexel would just publish a schematic diagram, and maybe a brief technical description.

the loc. Potentiometer and the resistor for it is simply connected to batt+, not sure if it will be fitted or wired to the internal switch at this point,
but having it there for user mods does not hurt

same with the NTC, it can be used without the high resistor as an addiotional LED output whatever in the firmware gets supplied
MTN uses NTCs on his firmware builds a lot why no add it to the firmware later
I voted to fit an NTC pads to the PCB it cant hurt there, even if not equipped

right now there is it on the driver it cant hurt even if its possibly not used in the final production light, but may find modders to get it working

Tom Tom
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 09/10/2017 - 08:30
Posts: 1163

Thank you for the clarifications, and it is very ingenious. Thank you for putting in so many innovative ideas and possibilities for further development. The large area of the driver allows so many more things to be used, or trialled, thank you for filling it up with yours.

Just one point, for accurate temperature sensing the last thing I would use is an NTC. I referred to “PTCs” because that is something easily understood, but what I really meant is silicon diodes using base-spreading-resistance to measure temperature.

Which have PTC characteristics, but are quite different. I provided a steer to a good source, many of the world’s best car manufacturers use these particular components, for good reason.

Here is another steer:

https://www.nxp.com/docs/en/brochure/75017525.pdf

jaharkes
jaharkes's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 5 days ago
Joined: 06/19/2018 - 21:15
Posts: 2

Please add me to the interest list for one.

DBSAR
DBSAR's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 44 min ago
Joined: 02/11/2013 - 23:28
Posts: 5766
Location: Ontario, Canada

Ok, -a thanks go out to member SKV89 for sending me four of Osram’s High-CRI emitter to test in the V1 BLF lantern prototype. (I use the V1 as the test-mule for measuring outputs, tints, etc of LEDs for lanterns)

The four LEDs sent to me for testing are the Oslon Square LCW CQAR.CC MQ-6U-L2 , MQ flux bin, 6U tint bin, and L2 forward voltage. MQ = 194 lm – 210 lm 6U = 2700K L2 = 2.90 – 3.00 V ) emitters.
They are a smaller substrate foot print than the 3535 XP sizes, ( more on the 3030 size, but they will flow onto a 3535 Cree XP board with no problems as i measured the center thermal-pad to be the same width, just the + & – pads are narrower on the Olsons.

- First positive i noticed is that the Osrams as nearly no angular tint shift, almost similar to the Nichia 119 or 219 series, but more efficient per amp input. (As almost all Cree emitters have very bad angular-tint shift, except for the MT-G2) the Samsung 351 series has almost as bad tint-shift, while Nichia and these Osrams has almost none, which is a great thing for a lantern to have full natural light tint consistency from all viewing angles.

For those wondering what angular tint-shift is, if your familiar with the horrible green tint caused by the original shallow-angled reflector Olight S20 then you know, or see this topic to understand: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60291

The Lux output at 1 foot is comparable, (Samsung 351B > 42 on Medium , 167 on High) ( Osram > 43 on Medium, 165 on High)

as for tint to the eye, the Osram is much more “natural” . The Olson Square 2700K appears to my eyes as the closest light tint to what of a 25 ~ 40 watt Incandescent light bulb, probably due to the very slightly warmer tint, but much better tint emitted from all angles of the lantern, (less angular tint shift) than the Samsung 351B 3000K.
If i had a choice to have the production BLF lantern to have for the warn tint channel, it would be to use these Olson LEDS for the warm tints. I don’t know if they have a larger 5000K version, but the best 5000K tint LEDs to use for the cooler-channel is still the Samsung 351D 5000K, but definitely these Olson Square 2700K, as i really like the linear tint form the light angles.

As seen below, the greens & reds and ever other colors seem to just stand out much more natural from these Olson 2700K than it does from the Samsung 351B 3000K. (photos take with lantern on medium mode)

That Canadian flashlight guy & Lantern Guru -Den / DBSARlight

qandeel
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 14 min ago
Joined: 11/23/2011 - 15:11
Posts: 501
Location: عُمَانْ

Yeah Den, keep teasing us while we patiently wait for the lantern LOL

 عُمَانْ

staticx57
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 22 min ago
Joined: 04/11/2016 - 00:43
Posts: 655
Location: New Jersey, United States

Those osrams are special for sure!

SKV89
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 15 min ago
Joined: 12/10/2017 - 12:46
Posts: 2961
Location: US

I’m surprised that Oslon Square 96CRI compares so well to the LH351B in efficiency because the color rendering is so much superior to the LH351B. The R9 is a whopping 96. This has the best color rendering of any emitter I’ve seen besides the Optisolis. I really hope we will see this emitter in the production lantern.

Here is the test result someone posted for the Oslon Square 96CRI 2700k

Here is the test result for the LH351B 90CRI 3000k by Maukka. The R9 is only 70 and it has an above the BBL DUV of 0.0023, which puts it on the green side.

kntx
Offline
Last seen: 4 days 19 hours ago
Joined: 04/02/2016 - 07:10
Posts: 116
Location: TERRA

Depending on price, i would like 5 of them….if that’s ok

The_Driver
The_Driver's picture
Offline
Last seen: 37 min 6 sec ago
Joined: 10/20/2016 - 05:51
Posts: 1401
Location: Germany

What is the Duv of the Osram? Generally it’s typical for warm LEDs to have a lower Duv compared to neutral ones.

SKV89
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 15 min ago
Joined: 12/10/2017 - 12:46
Posts: 2961
Location: US
The_Driver wrote:
What is the Duv of the Osram? Generally it’s typical for warm LEDs to have a lower Duv compared to neutral ones.

I would love to know too but comparing with my other WW emitters, it’s definitely not above the BBL. Its one of the best WW tints I have seen and I have seen about a dozen or more

DBSAR
DBSAR's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 44 min ago
Joined: 02/11/2013 - 23:28
Posts: 5766
Location: Ontario, Canada
SKV89 wrote:
I’m surprised that Oslon Square 96CRI compares so well to the LH351B in efficiency because the color rendering is so much superior to the LH351B. The R9 is a whopping 96. This has the best color rendering of any emitter I’ve seen besides the Optisolis. I really hope we will see this emitter in the production lantern.

I am very impressed with the Osram emitter. From my testing of the ones you sent me, the output for the same amp-load is roughly the same as the 351B, but i do like the more natural rosier tint better of the Osram, because it just looks more “natural” and a better replication of an incandescent light bulb than most others i have tested. Barry of the factory also told me that those Osrams are easier to get in large numbers than other High CRI warm white LEDs, so it may work out. ( to have the Osrams as the warm-channel at 2700K and Samsung 351D 5000K (or Cree XP-L 5000K) for the cool channel as a reserve LED if the Samsungs are hard to get. (with nearly 1400 BLF lanterns awaiting to be bought, Barry’s factory has to order 5000+ of each for the warm channel and 5000+ for the cool channel.

Here is a close up comparison to what the Osram Olson Hi-CRI 2700K to the Samsung 3000K 351B ( the 351B as a smaller die than the 351D, so it compares better to the Olson die size, or somewhat to the very in-efficient Nichia 119 smaller-die series which can’t match either the Osram or Samsung variants in the 2700 to 3200K color range for lux output versus amps-load.

Below the samsung 351B on left, and Osram Olson Square on the right: ( lantern was on medium-mode, both pulling 0.74 amps from the four 3600mah Panasonic cells, (roughly 0.18.7 amps per cell, so tested to give a run time of roughly 27+ hours of light output equivalent to a 25-watt incandescent light bulb on one charge.

That Canadian flashlight guy & Lantern Guru -Den / DBSARlight

sbslider
sbslider's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 16 min ago
Joined: 01/22/2017 - 13:41
Posts: 1238
Location: United States

Update to the interest list, the next 10 entries:

1132 Plotthound
1133 niktak11
1134 ZozzV6
1135 ZozzV6
1136 jaharkes
1137 kntx
1138 kntx
1139 kntx
1140 kntx
1141 kntx

interest list sorted by entry number

interest list sorted by user names

PocketSammich wrote: I don’t need this, but I want it. Please sign me up.

DBSAR
DBSAR's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 44 min ago
Joined: 02/11/2013 - 23:28
Posts: 5766
Location: Ontario, Canada

sbslider wrote:
Update to the interest list, the next 10 entries:

1132 Plotthound
1133 niktak11
1134 ZozzV6
1135 ZozzV6
1136 jaharkes
1137 kntx
1138 kntx
1139 kntx
1140 kntx
1141 kntx

Thanks Smile OP list updated!

That Canadian flashlight guy & Lantern Guru -Den / DBSARlight

staticx57
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 22 min ago
Joined: 04/11/2016 - 00:43
Posts: 655
Location: New Jersey, United States

DBSAR,

Here’s the source of the measurements.

http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1313035#comment-1313035

The reason these are so good are the tint bins. These are analogous to a 219B SW45k. Tint binned on and below the BBL.

If Barry can get these awesome bins I’d be one happy camper. I Big Smile Innocent

DBSAR
DBSAR's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 44 min ago
Joined: 02/11/2013 - 23:28
Posts: 5766
Location: Ontario, Canada

staticx57 wrote:
DBSAR,

Here’s the source of the measurements.

http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1313035#comment-1313035

The reason these are so good are the tint bins. These are analogous to a 219B SW45k. Tint binned on and below the BBL.

If Barry can get these awesome bins I’d be one happy camper. I Big Smile Innocent

Thanks for the link. Either way, the tint and color rendition of these Olson 2700K LEDs are the best pleasing natural warm white i have seen & tested so far from any LED to be as be close to a Incandescent bulb light, or light from a Coleman gas lantern to the eyes.

That Canadian flashlight guy & Lantern Guru -Den / DBSARlight

staticx57
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 22 min ago
Joined: 04/11/2016 - 00:43
Posts: 655
Location: New Jersey, United States

Cannot wait for this to come to out, especially if the Osrams make it in. Smile

sbslider
sbslider's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 16 min ago
Joined: 01/22/2017 - 13:41
Posts: 1238
Location: United States

I think we are looking for a recommendation for a 5000K Osram LED as well, chime in if you have a recommendation.

PocketSammich wrote: I don’t need this, but I want it. Please sign me up.

Pages