*BLF Ultimate Lantern Project*~updates, July,12,2018 Video is online!

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maverick06
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FWIW I really prefer a warm tint. As others have stated a campfire is around 2000k. I have the bld a6 with the 5a tint which is nice. Cool white lights all seem harsh and cheap to me. But to each their own. Understand that the majority of people want a cooler white than I would. That’s fine. Not asking for a change, just expressing an opinion.

I’m really excited to get one of these. Depending on how it all plays out,final specs and price I could easily see myself getting a second. Is there any projected eta? His summer, calendar year? Probably a bit early to know. Just figuring out my expectations.

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maverick06 wrote:
FWIW I really prefer a warm tint. As others have stated a campfire is around 2000k. I have the bld a6 with the 5a tint which is nice. Cool white lights all seem harsh and cheap to me. But to each their own. Understand that the majority of people want a cooler white than I would. That’s fine. Not asking for a change, just expressing an opinion.

I’m really excited to get one of these.


qft, I am with you all the way , the warmer the better for me to. I am also wandering if it will have all those special and cool features that fw3a will have like candle-, lightning mode etc. IMHO It s cool and all but unnecessary and kind of stupid in a flashlight but in lantern like this absolutely necessary. This is where I would use modes like that, in flashlight I would never use it except maybe to show of but then again I am not a showoff.
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dekozn wrote:

I am also wandering if it will have all those special and cool features that fw3a will have like candle-, lightning mode etc. IMHO It s cool and all but unnecessary and kind of stupid in a flashlight but in lantern like this absolutely necessary. This is where I would use modes like that, in flashlight I would never use it except maybe to show of but then again I am not a showoff.[/quote]
Well you wandered to the right place. AFAIK, the lantern is planned to run Anduril, which is the same program that produces the modes you listed

joechina wrote:
I am interested in one.

nember 860 on the interest list for joechina

soldsoulrockroll wrote:
Interested in one

Thanks

interest list number 861 for our Black Sabbath fan. Cool

interest list sorted by entry number

interest list sorted by user names

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sbslider wrote:
DBSAR wrote:
vestureofblood wrote:
I would be interested in this, please add me to the list.

added! number 849 on the list.


check. just a note to VOB, you also are 620 on the interest list for 2 lanterns total

LOL! Seriously bro, I was just thinking “Man I’m really late to the party on this” And then I saw your post….. No worries. I’m good with being on it for two Smile

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Please add me to the list for one of these beauties. Thanks!

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Interested in a second one if price is right (#99 on list already).

MCT

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DBSAR wrote:
** UPDATES ** Cross section of the BLF V2 lantern added. Further field testing going great! photos coming soon. also will have more detailed specifications for the lantern to provide to Barry & Thorfire soon. All we may need is to find someone to draft up a CAD of the lantern in the cross-section drawing below if Barry needs a more detailed version for Thorfire to work on.

Please, please make it a USB-C port. Then you could also use the single port for input and output.
But seriously, USB-C is so much better Love
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Matchoo wrote:
Please add me to the list for one of these beauties. Thanks!

added at number 862 on the interest list.

MCT wrote:
Interested in a second one if price is right (#99 on list already).

MCT

added a second lantern at number 863 on the interest list.
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Thinking of doing a video for my youtube channel talking about the BLF lantern project this weekend. It woudl be easier to explain the features of its design. I wil be sending the Cross section drawing & detailed specifications off to Barry this weekend to get it rolling with Thorfire. Smile

That Canadian flashlight guy & Lantern Guru -Den / DBSARlight

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DBSAR wrote:
Thinking of doing a video for my youtube channel talking about the BLF lantern project this weekend. It woudl be easier to explain the features of its design. I wil be sending the Cross section drawing & detailed specifications off to Barry this weekend to get it rolling with Thorfire. Smile

sounds like a great idea, looking forward to it. Thumbs Up
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Hi all. Been following this project for ages but just realised I’m not down on the list.
This lantern is shaping up to be a very special little bit of kit.

Interested in two please.

oto
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Interested in one

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INTERESTED!!

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gadabout wrote:
Hi all. Been following this project for ages but just realised I’m not down on the list.
This lantern is shaping up to be a very special little bit of kit.

Interested in two please.


interest list numbers 864 and 865 for you
oto wrote:
Interested in one

interest list number 866 for oto
Satisfaction wrote:
INTERESTED!!

interest list number 867 for Satisfaction
Geese
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Interested in one

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I am interested in one as well.

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Geese wrote:
Interested in one

Geese is number 868 on the interest list

falcora wrote:
I am interested in one as well.

Welcome to BLF falcora, you are number 869 on the interest list for the BLF Ultimate Lantern
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DBSAR wrote:
** UPDATES ** Cross section of the BLF V2 lantern added.

There appears to be a typo, “MH351” instead of “LH351D”. Just a note for the next diagram update.

Madtoffel wrote:
Nice to see some progress! But what happend with the tint ramping option we discussed earlier?

If the hardware supports tint mixing, I’ll add it to the firmware. It’s not really my decision, but I hope it happens.

nquinn wrote:
I’d love to see a smaller version – maybe like 1 or 2 18650’s that sit horizontally to reduce height and size.

I think Nitecore makes something like that. The LR30, I think.

bmengineer wrote:
Is it intended that the lantern is water resistant? The schematic shows an o-ring at the base of the diffuser, but nothing at the top or around the center screw

I was wondering about this too. Waterproofing the top of the lantern is probably important so it can operate during rain.

joechina wrote:
… USB rubber seal … round ones … better than rectangular …

+1

Stereodude wrote:
Well, you lose brightness at either extreme because you have half the number of LEDs, unless the plan is to make that not happen by limiting the brightness when all 4 LEDs are on so that brightness is constant over color temp.

The plan is constant brightness when changing CCT. And constant CCT when changing brightness. Except perhaps for a “natural” mode where CCT automatically goes up with brightness. Regardless, if it’s 6W on the warmest setting and 6W at the coolest setting, the plan is to make it 6W halfway between too… instead of 12W.

Stereodude wrote:
I hope it’s done in a way that the light remembers the color temp between power cycles so you don’t have to set it every time it’s turned on.

I’ll have to add an eeprom value for color balance, but that shouldn’t be hard. The main thing with adding features is just trying to keep the code size down so I won’t have to cut anything else to make room.

joechina wrote:
Can you add a 3 minutes versio of sunset? Or 2,5min on a certain level and then dim to zero? It is nice when you are in a cold tent in winter time and you zip your sleeping bag

Maybe. I’ve been thinking about making sunset configurable. The questions there are a matter of choosing the most useful options and avoiding big changes in code size. There’s not much room left in the Q8, GT, and FW3A builds, and I hope to make things work on all platforms if possible.

dekozn wrote:
I am also wandering if it will have all those special and cool features that fw3a will have like candle-, lightning mode etc.

Yes, that’s the plan.

I use candle mode quite a bit, especially in a lantern.

Depending on how things go, some things could potentially be removed though. Like, there might not be much point in keeping muggle mode, since the lantern doesn’t run hot enough to damage itself. And I’ll probably turn off thermal regulation entirely because the sensor isn’t near the emitters.

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ToyKeeper wrote:

I use candle mode quite a bit, especially in a lantern.

Depending on how things go, some things could potentially be removed though. Like, there might not be much point in keeping muggle mode, since the lantern doesn’t run hot enough to damage itself. And I’ll probably turn off thermal regulation entirely because the sensor isn’t near the emitters.

about to copy the just finished specifications here now shortly Smile feel free to alter, correct or add anything that i missed.

That Canadian flashlight guy & Lantern Guru -Den / DBSARlight

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IMPORTANT: -I just received a message from Barry, and he told me he apparently left Thorfire, but he can still communicate with the factory that built the Q8, (an affiliation for Sofirn i believe) Barry mentioned to me he can still work with us, but more so if we go with a different brand name possibly. any suggestions or idea are welcome. Also i want to create a PM group for everyone who has contributed to the lantern project so we can communicate by message easier.

That Canadian flashlight guy & Lantern Guru -Den / DBSARlight

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- BLF/Thorfire Lantern specifications Sheet:

– Lantern features & design:
- Compact design based from the BLF Thorfire Q8 mid-section and battery section, with great run times, output, and tint ramping, mode groups, built-in USB charging capability, and versatility. Unlike most all commercially available LED lanterns, many of them have a lack of usable modes, low run times, built from plastic & less durable, have a low CRI color rendering and very cool white or bluish light tint. This new lantern design has all those issues eliminated for much more practical & versatile area-lantern for camping, off-grid, cabin use, or emergency lighting. With a built in USB charging circuit (set at 1.0 amps to 1.5 amps progressively) this lantern has a unique feature of its design, with the usb (possibly a efficient TP4056 chip controlled Lithium Ion charger circuit that is connected directly to the battery side of the driver allowing the lantern to still run on lower modes while charging at the same time. Using a solar panel charger of 10 watts or more, the lantern can be a infinitely sustainable off-grid light source for remote locations where there is no electricity.

- Based from the BLF Q8, (using the same battery tube and similar midsection, with a similar driver but instead of using a FET, this lantern uses four 7135 regulator chips to control current to a lower maximum draw current of 1.4 amps. The firmware will be developed specifically for lantern use by Toykeeper of BLF, and will have user defined mode groups, but with added modes including Candle-mode, sunset-mode, & possibly a tint ramping mode, (which allows the driver to ramp/fade between 3000K LEDs to 5000K LEDs, which will require a third lead for the LED star to have two channels, (one channel for three 3000K 3535 type LEDs and three 5000K 3535 LEDs, possibly the new Samsung High CRI LH351D-3535 series of LED emitters. There will be an added 1/4-20 threaded tripod mount placed in the bottom of the the lantern base.
Much of the battery tube, midsection, and base will be the same as the q8, but the mid section will have less cooling fins as it will not get as hot or require the same heat dissipation as the Q8 does, allowing the lantern mid-section to be more streamlined. The base has to be slightly thicker metal to allow the threaded tripod mount. Threads are to be anodized as the Q8 to allow it to be able to lockout by unscrewing the body from the mid-section. The electronic switch should use a yellow or amber LED instead of the green as in the Q8, so the switch can be used as a night light when the lantern is off. roughly 90 degrees around from the on-off switch, the USB charging port is recessed with a rubber plug-cap to seal out water.

-( if cost allows, the circuit could have an USB power bank option too, to allow the lantern to be a power source for charging phones, but must have a minimum of 2.0 amps at 5 volts for charging larger smart-phones. Also if cost allows this charging & power circuit option can be the new USB-C format.

- The mid-section design will have a similar shelf in the mid section like the Q8 has for the LED star, but for the lantern it has a threaded center hole for the assembly bolt, small holes near the center bolt hold for the wires, & a notched ring to hold the center wire-tube. Also there will be an o-ring seal around the outer perimeter for the lens/globe to seal on to prevent water from entering. The lens/globe is to be made from either a durable poly-carbonate material (for crack resistance) or a HDPE type material. ( not acrylic material, as acrylic cracks to easily. The frosting should be between 35% to 40%, to allow the most light transmission but also give a good, smooth balanced light diffusion to lower hard-light and shadowing. (Most LED household bulbs are roughly 60% frosting, the lantern should be less at 35 to 40%. ( meaning the LED emitter will be visible through the lens, but still mildly frosted.) The lens/globe is shaped like a tapered “cup” to allow more downward light with less reflection glare, with a solid bottom one-piece area to add strength to the globe. Also the bottom surface and the center tube needs to be a flat/matte bright white material, as matte white smooths out & reflects more light smoothly than silver or other shiny surfaces does. (See cross section drawing & description) The head of the lantern is a solid aluminum unit for the LED star to mount on as a heat sink, also will have the center tapered bolt hole for assembly. the upper area of the lens/globe will fit into a grove around the underside of the head, with a rubber seal/o-ring to seal out water.The LED star will be a 2-channel design, using six 3535 LED pads, with every second pad around the PCB star traced to be on the opposite channel, (three LEDs per channel for the tint ramping option.) The top of the head will have two lanyard holes, (drilled angular from the top to the sides so the holes do not pass to the inside of the head unit, and a 550 para cord lanyard attached with sturdy resin hook-type end clip at the top ends. (see cross section drawing)

-Specifications:

- uses up to four 18650 LiIon cells (in parallel configuration)
- modified Q8 driver design, four 7135 regulators, (no FET) new firmware developed by Toykeeper.
- 170mm tall x 57mm wide
- Lighted electronic switch, (same as Q8 but with amber or yellow LEDs.
- Mode groups similar to Narsil, but with additional Lantern special modes, and three wire tint-ramping feature & modes.
- USB charging, ( either USB-micro or newer USB-C with power bank feature.
- down-firing LED design, with three Samsung LH351D 3000K high-CRI LEDs, and three Samsung LH351D 5000K High CRI LEDs.
- Average between 600 to 8000 lumens on maximum mode. ( tested with Samsung LH351D 4000K LEDs with four-7135 regulators on Q8 driver & Q8 Narsil firmware.
- maximum mode run time tested at 1.4 amps draw on four 3500mah high capacity Panasonic 18650 cells measured at roughly 12 hours.
- o-rings at top & bottom of lens/globe and around upper bolt head to seal out water.
- electronic & mechanical lock out.
- tripod mount on bottom for use as a raised lantern on a tripod.

That Canadian flashlight guy & Lantern Guru -Den / DBSARlight

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DBSAR wrote:
most of the same mode groups as the Q8 flashlight, but with added modes including Candle-mode, sunset-mode, …

The mode groups aren’t the same as a Q8, exactly… because it has none. Instead, it lets users define their own mode group. It still offers both a smooth ramp and discrete brightness levels, but the latter is user-configured instead of using hardcoded mode groups.

DBSAR wrote:
possibly a tint ramping mode, (which allows the driver to ramp/fade between 3000K LEDs to 4000K LEDs, which will require a third lead for the LED star to have two channels, (one channel for three 3000K 3535 type LEDs and three 4000K 3535 LEDs, …

The cooler tint should probably be 5000K instead of 4000K.

DBSAR wrote:
roughly 45 degrees around from the on-off switch, the USB charging port

Interesting. First I’ve heard of the angle, I think. I had assumed it was 90 or 180.

DBSAR wrote:
- Average between 850 to 1000 lumens on maximum mode. ( tested with Samsung LH351D 4000K LEDs with four-7135 regulators on Q8 driver & Q8 Narsil firmware. - maximum mode run time tested at 1.4 amps draw on four 3500mah high capacity Panasonic 18650 cells measured at roughly 12 hours.

I’m not sure it’ll get 850 to 1000 lumens with just 1.4 Amps. Time for some quick measurements and napkin math.

Using measurements and some numbers from spec sheets, I get…

  • XP-G3 CW 70CRI:
    • measured 160 OTF lm / 7135 chip
    • rated 177 lm / 350mA
  • LH351D 5000K 90CRI:
    • rated 410 lm / 1.05 A (or 137 lm / 350mA) (or 547 lm / 1.4 A)
    • calculated 520 OTF lm at 1.4A

So, my guess is about 520 lm for this lantern, if it uses 4×7135 per channel and has very little loss. To hit the range of 850 to 1000 lm, it would probably need 7×7135 per channel (estimated 911 lm).

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DBSAR wrote:
IMPORTANT: -I just received a message from Barry, and he told me he apparently left Thorfire, but he can still communicate with the factory that built the Q8, (an affiliation for Sofirn i believe) Barry mentioned to me he can still work with us, but more so if we go with a different brand name possibly. any suggestions or idea are welcome. Also i want to create a PM group for everyone who has contributed to the lantern project so we can communicate by message easier.

There was a post in another thread somewhere with a quote from a Sofirn employee, to the effect that Sofirn is the manufacturer for Thorfire, not just another brand using the same manufacturer. So if correct the Q8 is a Sofirn manufactured product to Thorfire specs, which explains why Sofirn can sell original Q8 parts.

Would it not be preferable to deal with Sofirn directly? Since they are breaking out with their own products now, they must have a design team, and have all the Q8 specs programmed already, as well as a parts inventory. Sofirn seems to be building a good name for themselves and taking our niche market seriously, wouldn’t this be an ideal opportunity to let them run with it directly rather than handing it to a 3rd, and as yet unknown brand? Seems to me to be a relationship worth pursuing, thinking future projects as well. Prototyping would surely be smoother dealing with the manufacturer directly rather than through a 3rd party.

Beam me up!

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ToyKeeper][quote=DBSAR wrote:
DBSAR wrote:
possibly a tint ramping mode, (which allows the driver to ramp/fade between 3000K LEDs to 4000K LEDs, which will require a third lead for the LED star to have two channels, (one channel for three 3000K 3535 type LEDs and three 4000K 3535 LEDs, …
The cooler tint should probably be 5000K instead of 4000K.

How would reflowing the leds influence the tint ramp. Say I would reflow the Leds and use 2000K and 6000K leds, would it mess up the tint ramp? BTW: I don’t even know if there LEDS in that spectrum, it’s just an example.

I would really like the warmest tint available for this lantern and for lightning mode I think a really cool tint would offer the best effect…. Not saying I want to push my thoughts for the final product, I can roll my own by reflowing the LEDs. That’s why I ask the question.

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It would not mess up the tint ramp.

TK is just saying we should have a wide range of tints between 3000k and 5000k.

So yes, you can reflow your own 2000k and 6000k LEDs. However, for the 2000k version, the output will suffer tremendously.

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dekozn][quote=ToyKeeper wrote:
DBSAR wrote:
DBSAR wrote:
possibly a tint ramping mode, (which allows the driver to ramp/fade between 3000K LEDs to 4000K LEDs, which will require a third lead for the LED star to have two channels, (one channel for three 3000K 3535 type LEDs and three 4000K 3535 LEDs, …
The cooler tint should probably be 5000K instead of 4000K.

How would reflowing the leds influence the tint ramp. Say I would reflow the Leds and use 2000K and 6000K leds, would it mess up the tint ramp? BTW: I don’t even know if there LEDS in that spectrum, it’s just an example.

I would really like the warmest tint available for this lantern and for lightning mode I think a really cool tint would offer the best effect…. Not saying I want to push my thoughts for the final product, I can roll my own by reflowing the LEDs. That’s why I ask the question.


Apart from that imperfect blending of the two led tints will show up clearer when the tints are further apart, I do not think that the quality of the in-between tints gets much worse if 2000 and 6000K are chosen. That said, if I think of the led spectra that add up, I’m very sure that 2700 and 5000K give perfect in-between tints, and I expect but am not completely sure that 2000 and 6000K give perfect in-between spectra.

link to djozz tests 

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ToyKeeper wrote:
DBSAR wrote:
most of the same mode groups as the Q8 flashlight, but with added modes including Candle-mode, sunset-mode, …

The mode groups aren’t the same as a Q8, exactly… because it has none. Instead, it lets users define their own mode group. It still offers both a smooth ramp and discrete brightness levels, but the latter is user-configured instead of using hardcoded mode groups.

DBSAR wrote:
possibly a tint ramping mode, (which allows the driver to ramp/fade between 3000K LEDs to 4000K LEDs, which will require a third lead for the LED star to have two channels, (one channel for three 3000K 3535 type LEDs and three 4000K 3535 LEDs, …

The cooler tint should probably be 5000K instead of 4000K.

DBSAR wrote:
roughly 45 degrees around from the on-off switch, the USB charging port

Interesting. First I’ve heard of the angle, I think. I had assumed it was 90 or 180.

DBSAR wrote:
- Average between 850 to 1000 lumens on maximum mode. ( tested with Samsung LH351D 4000K LEDs with four-7135 regulators on Q8 driver & Q8 Narsil firmware. - maximum mode run time tested at 1.4 amps draw on four 3500mah high capacity Panasonic 18650 cells measured at roughly 12 hours.

I’m not sure it’ll get 850 to 1000 lumens with just 1.4 Amps. Time for some quick measurements and napkin math.

Using measurements and some numbers from spec sheets, I get…

  • XP-G3 CW 70CRI:
    • measured 160 OTF lm / 7135 chip
    • rated 177 lm / 350mA
  • LH351D 5000K 90CRI:
    • rated 410 lm / 1.05 A (or 137 lm / 350mA) (or 547 lm / 1.4 A)
    • calculated 520 OTF lm at 1.4A

So, my guess is about 520 lm for this lantern, if it uses 4×7135 per channel and has very little loss. To hit the range of 850 to 1000 lm, it would probably need 7×7135 per channel (estimated 911 lm).

Edited my errors Smile especially the 45 degree one. ( it should be at least 90 degrees or can be 180 degrees on the opposite side if needed ( in place of the original Q8 tripod hole)

as for the lumens, i was mostly estimating from the measurements i got using four XP-L LEDs at the time. (maybe the white-surface light bounce amplified the light? (the upper & lower light surfaces painted matte white really increased the light out 180 degrees around the lantern over the bare metal surfaces did) we can go with 5000K for the higher LEDs., though i have none of them to really test yet.

That Canadian flashlight guy & Lantern Guru -Den / DBSARlight

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Zulumoose wrote:
DBSAR wrote:
IMPORTANT: -I just received a message from Barry, and he told me he apparently left Thorfire, but he can still communicate with the factory that built the Q8, (an affiliation for Sofirn i believe) Barry mentioned to me he can still work with us, but more so if we go with a different brand name possibly. any suggestions or idea are welcome. Also i want to create a PM group for everyone who has contributed to the lantern project so we can communicate by message easier.

There was a post in another thread somewhere with a quote from a Sofirn employee, to the effect that Sofirn is the manufacturer for Thorfire, not just another brand using the same manufacturer. So if correct the Q8 is a Sofirn manufactured product to Thorfire specs, which explains why Sofirn can sell original Q8 parts.

Would it not be preferable to deal with Sofirn directly? Since they are breaking out with their own products now, they must have a design team, and have all the Q8 specs programmed already, as well as a parts inventory. Sofirn seems to be building a good name for themselves and taking our niche market seriously, wouldn’t this be an ideal opportunity to let them run with it directly rather than handing it to a 3rd, and as yet unknown brand? Seems to me to be a relationship worth pursuing, thinking future projects as well. Prototyping would surely be smoother dealing with the manufacturer directly rather than through a 3rd party.

good point. Barry will be the liason to decide where & under what brand the BLF lantern will be manufactured. I just realized that we don’t have a name/model for the lantern yet… ( like Q8, GT, A6, etc. we need a model number or name for the lantern.

That Canadian flashlight guy & Lantern Guru -Den / DBSARlight

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Posts: 4897
Location: Ontario, Canada

We need a name for the lantern, (like the Q8, GT, A6, etc.) the lantern does not really have a unique name yet. Post your thoughts on a name we can use, ( or number designation?) then we can put it to a vote.

That Canadian flashlight guy & Lantern Guru -Den / DBSARlight

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