Off-topic: problem with Craftsman/Diehard 19.2V Battery (or charger)?

Hi,

I have a 19.2V Sears portable drill, and it came with a 1-hour charger and 2 Craftsman/Diehard Battery 130279005/BD0702 batteries. Apparently these are Nicads.

The charger has 3 lights: Charging, Fully Charged and defective.

The thing is now the “fully charged” is coming on immediately when I put either of the batteries into the charger.

I’ve been googling around, and haven’t really found anything definitive, but it’s kind of strange that both batteries would go bad, so it’s either the charger is bad, or both batteries are bad.

I know a lot of you/us here are into batteries and battery-powered anything, so I was wondering if anyone has run into this and might know if there’s a fix or whether I just need to buy some new batteries and/or charger?

Thanks,
Jim

My charger will sometimes show the battery is bad if I put it in the charger while it us still warm. If I set it aside til it cools, it will charge when I try later. You might try unplugging the charger overnight and trying again the next morning. That sometimes works with mine when it isn’t working right. It is worth a try anyway.

I have one tool left from ages ago in this type and both packs are now stone dead giving me the same symptoms. I do remember that when I put them away one pack was almost a goner, the other was weak, and the charger worked so my best guess is the packs are dead. If you want my charger to try out PM me and I’ll send it gratis- I replaced that tool with a DeWalt so I don’t need any of this stuff any more.

Phil

Hi,

That’s a nice gesture (typical for BLF, though). Coincidentally, I have a DeWalt sitting on my kitchen table at this very moment… borrowed from my son, and he’s laughing his behind off because he’s got better equipment than his old dad this time :). But sure, I’ll PM you and give your charger a try.

Thanks,
Jim

Everything is unplugged and the batteries are separate, so I give them a try tomorrow.

Thanks,
Jim

Can you check the voltage with a multimeter? Post it here? Maybe also check the charger voltage?

Yes, I can do that tonight, but I did check the voltage of one of the batteries last night. According to a Youtube video the - terminals (2 of them) are at 12 and 9 o’clock and + are at 3 and 6. I measured 15.02V for that battery, which when I put it in a drill, basically spins for less than a sec then slows down to stop.

I’ll re-measure voltage, but I think one of the batteries, runs a little longer but there’s hardly any torque.

I haven’t measured the voltage from the charger yet, but Sawmaster is sending an old one he has, and I will measure mine tonight, but the “Fully charged’ comes on immediately and I don’t get the ”defective battery” light at all, for both batteries I have.

EDIT: I think the problem is that, for some reason, the charger thinks the batteries are fully charged, so it doesn’t charge them at all.

Get some alligator clips that will fit the exposed terminals and solder them to a connector you can use on your Accucel 6. This is assuming you can clip to them (I can). I charge my (lousy, old) drill NiCads with mine all the time. You can also do a discharge test and cycle the battery this way. You may have to tweak the termination setting to get it to work properly with the old battery since the resistance is likely to be high. FWIW, on my old packs if I charge them and use them immediately, they work OK. They even show a reasonable capacity with cycle testing. BUT, the AC-6 is VERY limited in discharge amperage capability so it's not a fair power test. The batteries also self discharge at an appalling rate, clearly indicating they are effectively shot. Crappy NiXX batteries are the bane of portable tools.

I have the same problem with a B-n-D weed whacker. I REALLY like not having a cord but the batteries are almost shot after only 3 years, and I think I'm way above average on battery care and maintenance. They just died because they used lousy batteries.

You’re probably right Ohaya. There’s going to be a vented or dead cell in the pack, and being in series that’s all it takes. The charger I sent was working the last time I used that drill, but my packs were weak and died while sitting around about a year unused. If you’re up to it you can probably find enough good cells between both of your packs to make one usable pack. I’ve done that a-plenty with these when cash was tight. My technique was to cut the tabs long enough to overlap, sand that area a bit, then solder with a butane torch. I used scrap sheet metal to shield the cardboard battery wraps. The tabs are stainless steel and something of a bugger to solder well. Give the connection a pull-test and if it sticks it should be OK.

I used these tools daily in my work for several years and they’re pretty good stuff. The batteries, sadly, were not. The “Die Hard” packs had better cells but I built a few using Tenergy NiMh’s which were even better. The standard charger worked fine with them. Once I got most of my tools swapped over to DeWalt I got rid of it all except the right-angle drill (where the charger came from) but it’s been replaced now too. I do regret letting the “Laminate Trimmer” go- it was made like a router, and one of only two cordless routers which had ever been made back then (Makita made a better one for a short while, good luck trying to fine one!). DeWalt’s equivalent tool doesn’t have a router base for it; it is strictly a cut-out tool and at last glance that was the same for all the other brands. Craftsman’s 19.2V product line had more different tools than most others do, though some of them weren’t very good. But the drills and the saws are good and can hold their own with most other brands as long as your batteries are nearly new. TBH, the only reason I switched over to DeWalt 18V was for their much better batteries and their larger Trim nailer. So don’t feel outclassed with these tools- just make yourself a couple good NiMh batteries and keep on going- these tools will too.

Phil

I also had the same drill/battery set. I was a carpenter for over 40 years before retiring. Back in the 50-60s Craftsman was one of the few brands you could rely on. I remember buying a 30’ craftsman tape for $8 back in the 60s with a lifetime guarantee on it. I wore that one out and replaced it(for free) more than a dozen times in 30 years before they ‘crawfished’ on the lifetime replacement policy. During a lot of that time, if you wanted to use a drill, you had to find a place to plug it in. I cant really remember when battery powered drills became a reality…. seems it was in the late 70s sometime, but my first battery powered drill was a 12v Craftsman. It was a good drill at the time because there was nothing to compare it to, but I wore it out soon. I replaced it with the 19.2v set like yours. It was a set with a drill/charger, sawsall, circular saw & flashlight.

It too was a good drill and the batteries lasted maybe 4 or 5 years before I needed to replace them. Right after replacing them the charger went out, showing the same behavior as yours. I remember replacing the charger was more expensive than I would have liked but now I had all these other tools and 2 new batteries. I bought a new charger but soon after that my drill quit working and it was cheaper to buy another tool set w/batteries & charger than replace the drill. I think it was at that time I realized I was ‘locked in’ with this set whether I liked it or not.

Fast forward to the present, I would be scared to guess how many 19.2v tools I ended up with and how much money I spent replacing them. I guess I probably have at least 4 - 19.2v drills(none good) & 4 chargers(none good), 8 or so batteries (1 good) and numerous sawsalls and flashlights(most still working but with 1 battery and no chargers). Even tho I am retired, these are tools that I still need, so I decided a couple years ago to upgrade. I got the RIDGID GEN5X 18-Volt Lithium-Ion Cordless Combo Kit (5-Piece)-R9652 (Lifetime Free Replacement on all Tools/Chargers/Batteries) for $300 on sale @ Home Depot. I cant recommend it highly enough. Google or YouTube it, I think you will be impressed.
Milwalkee also makes a good Combo set if you can find a good deal.

Whatever you do, cut your loses and don’t keep replacing 19.2v Craftsman batteries and chargers, they no longer represent the quality and ’craftsman’ship that Craftsman once represented.
Hth and good luck
C ~

The batteries have Nimh, so for 19.2V, is that like 18-19 in series? I haven’t done Nimh charging with my Accucel, but does that actually do 18-19 Nimh in series?

Sure, no problem. My weed whacker has 15-cells and charges up to something like 22v. I use 1-2A charge rate on it.
At 19.2v (nominal I assume) it’s probably 16 cells.

With the AC-6 you’ll have a read out and be better able to see if there is a problem and maybe what kind of problem. With 16 cells it should charge up to ~ 23v. If it doesn’t get up in that region after some charging it likely has a dead cell. Cell reversal from pushing a crappy pack too far is not too uncommon. When they start getting weak you should quit and re-charge.

I got it my AC6. But when I set it to Nimh, it only lets me select current and then I can start the charge. It shows voltage during the charging (and current). I’m trying it at 1amp now, and current is going all over the place.

Oops it just stopped after a few minutes on the 1st battery.

EDIT: The first battery ended at about 22.3V and I just tried it on the drill and it seems back to normal (== good)!!

I have the 2nd one on the charger now!!

EDIT 2: Sigh. I ran the 1st battery for a minute or so and then the drill started slowing down…. think that battery may be no good?

Bad cell (or 2).

Phil

The 2nd one seems to be taking the charge. It’s about 500 mAh charged now.

I’m guessing that I have 2 problems:

1) One of the batteries is bad and
2) The charger is always detecting both batteries as full.

Hopefully the charger you sent will take care of #2.

Re. the “bad” battery, would it be worthwhile to run a discharge cycle on it? It does seem to have voltage, but not much current capacity, if that makes sense…

If indeed a cell is bad, a discharge cycle won’t help, but then again it can’t hurt either- dead is dead.

Phil

All you can set on NiMh is charge rate/amps. You can tweak the termination setting also. If it’s kicking out too early you make the number higher. Too high and it won’t terminate. Too low and it terminates early. A lot of people don’t realize it’s MUCH harder to charge NiMh than lithium. It’s just the the consequences of screwing up with lithium are much higher. NiCad (decent cells) are easier to charge and more robust, just low capacity.

The current going all over the place is the charger trying to figure out the number of cells and the quality (resistance). Think of it as electronic ‘probing’. After awhile it settles down, but will occasionally drop to zero or near zero to see what the ‘real’ voltage of the cell is and whether it’s getting close to being full. The termination is determined by dV/dT=delta voltage/delta Time=change in voltage/change in time. This is one of the main things HJK is looking at with NiMh charging.

You can try a cycle. The AC-6 will do 5 cycles but at that voltage the discharge is going to be very low and take a loooong time.
DO NOT under any circumstances go much lower than 1.0v/cell for the WHOLE pack. Contrary to ‘common belief’ you should NOT discharge a PACK to zero. You can get away with that on single cells. You can kill cells in a pack that way, which might be your problem.

There is absolutely nothing you can do with the charger Phil is sending you, except brainlessly plug it in and walk away, that you can’t do with the AC-6. But, you don’t learn very much from that.

Addendum (I was typing). What Phil just said. You can perk up an ailing cell. You can’t recover a dead one in a pack. Out of a pack you can ZAP them (secret technique) that effectively is useless. Works for a very short time and then the cell dies again.

The “good” one took about 1 aH, and it ran the drill well. I’m letting the “bad” one rest then will try charging again.

If the bad one won’t take a charge >>> ZAP it.
If you have a lead-acid 12 car charger rig something up so you can make brief contact of to and to. You WILL get sparks. Contact should be very brief.
Will it work? Maybe.
Will it work well? Probably not. But, what the hell, the pack is effectively dead.

Just for giggles, after some use or discharge of the good pack, pop it in the stock charger and see what happens. I don’t recall killing any of the stock chargers. One went totally dead (no lights) on plug-in, another got rained on while charging. Details are fuzzy, that;s been over 10 years ago now. If I ever see a great deal on that laminate trimmer somewhere, I’m going to grab it and alter it to work with my 18V DeWalt packs }:slight_smile:

Phil