Q8, PMS SEND TO THOSE WITH ISSUES BLF soda can light

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teacher
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WalkIntoTheLight wrote:

(snip)
It sounds like you would be better served with a 4xAA light, of which there are several nice ones. You’ll only get 1000 lumens from them, but that is more than enough for almost every purpose.
(snip)
This is a very nice AA Light. It takes 4 x AA. I use Eneloops in mine & love it!!

Nitecore EA45S Cree XP-L HI V3 LED Flashlight – 1000 lumen

You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load./"Bear" Bryant 

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WalkIntoTheLight
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Flashy Mike wrote:
Since Banggood sells this light to everybody it actually should have a safe mode for “random civilians”.

Okay, I have one answer to your comment:

https://www.banggood.com/Electric-Power-Drive-Hand-Prod-for-Cattle-Dogs-...

Do you think that has a “safe mode for random civilians”?

teacher
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WalkIntoTheLight wrote:
Flashy Mike wrote:
Since Banggood sells this light to everybody it actually should have a safe mode for “random civilians”.

Okay, I have one answer to your comment:

https://www.banggood.com/Electric-Power-Drive-Hand-Prod-for-Cattle-Dogs-...

Do you think that has a “safe mode for random civilians”?

That would be a definite no…….. Wink

You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load./"Bear" Bryant 

 .................................. "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast" ...................................

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nottawhackjob
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Hey WalkIntoTheLight,

C’mon, a cattle prod? A cattle prod is just like your typical flashlight within reasonable public consumer expectations of what a typical flashlight does? Most flashlights typically don’t shock the living sh*t out of you even if you “mishandle” one, right? Or can kill you if you have a pace maker, right?

Would you leave a cattle prod just laying about your home around people that don’t realize what it can do? Do you really think a live cattle prod and a live Q8 on a kitchen table unsupervised around kids is a valid argument for debateable comparison here?

Whatever Banggood does or doesn’t do when they sell cattle prods is one thing. Reasonably expecting Banggood warning the public about flashlights to the extent that a cattle prod warrants is another thing. I don’t know but maybe there’s no legal requirement to warn about anything that Banggood sells within China’s consumer protection laws for items of this nature. Basically what I’m saying is that if you buy a cattle prod Banggood has a reasonable expectation that you already really know what you’re dealing with there.

Now if you’re talking about a new just hit the general consumer market high power laser that goes for only $5, will burn a hole through drywall, and looks like a flashlight, yeah I’d think Banggood would have some extra responsibility to make an extra effort to warn their unsuspecting customers random or not of this new product’s untypical hazards. I would hope so.

The point from previous comments that from Banggood’s perspective a Q8 should warrant a big deal warning OTOH doesn’t fly either so your point is well taken but the comparison to a cattle prod here is where I lose the argument’s valid connection.

“In many things in order to truly understand the small picture you have to understand the big picture first.”

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I’d really like to see drivers designed to use the little DIP switches.
4 or 8 switches on a small board gives the option of a whole lot (2 to the power ___) of settings.

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hank wrote:
I’d really like to see drivers designed to use the little DIP switches.
4 or 8 switches on a small board gives the option of a whole lot (2 to the power ___) of settings.
Unfortunately not. If you want to configure unrelated configuration options (like strobe yes/no, ramping yes/no, number of modes and so on), you need at least 1 switch per option. But actually you could use a single switch to allow/forbid configuration via UI.
Still the easiest way without hardware modification is using a passphrase to protect configuration. In my momentary firmware I lock advanced configuration options with a simple 3 digit passcode: for instance “click-pause-click-click-pause-click-click-click” if the pre-configured passphrase is 123.
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Has anyone seen them on sale recently?

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WalkIntoTheLight
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nottawhackjob wrote:
Hey WalkIntoTheLight, Whatever Banggood does or doesn’t do when they sell cattle prods is one thing. Reasonably expecting Banggood warning the public about flashlights to the extent that a cattle prod warrants is another thing.

My point is that if you’re buying from China, don’t expect the same consumer safety standards/warnings that you get in North America or Europe. Do your own research to determine how to safely use whatever you buy overseas, whether it be a cattle prod or a high-power flashlight.

Alexium
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Just got my Q8. Are there any sensible mods for it?

MTE C3-907 -> Convoy C8 -> Convoy S2+ -> BLF Q8 -> Sofirn SP36 -> Somebody please make me stop!

joechina
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There is a modding thread for the Q8
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/55026

alternety
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OK, maybe I won’t be quiet.

I can not understand the posts denigrating anyone that needs to pick up a Q8 in their hands, wanting light, and gets caught in a button push hell. Any random person needs to be able to use the Q8 without a manual (as in using a candle or match to read the instructions for operating the flashlight). Yes there are many esoteric functions, but who the hell cares when the power is out and you have no light source.

The Q8 is a great (apparently an almost erotic device for many members) flashlight. As I mentioned somewhere – it is the light I wanted; no matter what you think! It does what I want. And insulting posts about me getting a $3 light is petty and quite annoying. You are nowhere near as clever as you think.

Everyone sending my views to purgatory, and ridicule them on the way down, have a very limited and shallow understanding of Human Behavior. But they are persistent.

Pretty much all of the negative responses to my thoughts have involved – If they just RTFM, and trained, and acquired long term memory (potentially years), and were provided with a training program that included monthly emergency exercises for random neighbors and passer-bys, with training on the light, then it is one hell of an emergency light source. NO – it is a flashlight!!

The vitriol is predominantly directed to people too stupid to use the light (that includes me); these users are clearly sub-human. And perhaps should be required to get a flashlight operating license.

To everyone saying they have all these Q8 users that had no problem; Yeah, but I had a 4 out of 4 failure (including me). Work the statistics. Review your conditions. Many may dismiss (well more that just dismiss) this issue.

Regardless of your (mostly) individual opinion; this light is NOT intuitive NOR is it configured to allow a wandering stranger to pick it up and find that it is a intuitive flashlight. Or understanding what is happening.When your house has collapsed from an earthquake (mud slide, etc) wandering strangers have some potential of being useful. As do the owners of the house.

I (after considerable initial research) bought (ordered) these as emergency lighting. That includes adding a satisfactory diffuser for long term emergency room lighting. We have rather a lot of power outages.

The part consistently disregarded by some forum members, is that my targeted use is EMERGENCY. I get that this is not necessarily the project objective; perhaps the hive mind who will think that “who, there is a flashlight, I am saved” is the most important customer base. But there should still be room for a household, with neighbors, to allow people to pick up the light and not get surprised by unexpected results from pushing the button that they can not resolve.

This light is available on the open market. At a good price point. Any purchaser, other than one of us, may foolishly believe it is just a flashlight. There are probably more of them out there than there are of us. At least if the manufacturer is able to sell any quantity of the Q8s. Get out of the restricted view of a bunch of flashlight fanatics and think about all the rest of the human race.

Let us assume for the moment, that this is an emergency light. In an emergency, many possible people will pick up the light and try to use it. This can not be pre-trained. This could be an automobile accident (particularly a passenger), forest fire, earthquake, etc. We have them all.

If someone picking up the Q8 gets into a confusing mode because they believed it is a regular old flashlight; and could not see how to get out of that mode. That is just not acceptable.

I suggest again; there needs to be a mode that just gives basic alternatives with minimal confusion (learning curve). There would need a way into the full native Q8 interface.

joechina
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I found a review with two nice UI-Diagramms for the Q8.
Maybe they are better to understand.
They are nicer looking Smile

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?443580-Review-Thorfire-BLF-Q8-5K-lumen-designed-by-FLASHAHOLICS!

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Maybe it’s been posted but I missed it. Do we have a pretty good idea what the internal temp of the Q8 is at the default 3 minute step-down mark when at max illumination? My point being—should I delve into the UI to change to the temp-actuated step-down or is it reasonably safe as is? I’ve run it up to the step-down and it was …….pretty warm but wouldn’t have burned my skin by any means. Just wondering.

Keep your nose in the wind and your eyes along the skyline.
Del Gue

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alternety wrote:
That is just not acceptable.

Opinions vary on what is and isn’t acceptable.

No one is going to change a finished product. So your words are falling on deaf ears.

I’m surprised you haven’t sold the Q8’s and bought something different.

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bushmaster wrote:
Maybe it’s been posted but I missed it. Do we have a pretty good idea what the internal temp of the Q8 is at the default 3 minute step-down mark when at max illumination?

It depends on what batteries are being used and their state of charge. I believe the three minute timer was set up as a worst-case scenario. Such as when you’re using very high drain cells like 30Q or VTC5, etc… and they are fully charged.

If the default thermal protection isn’t causing you any problems, you can leave it stock if you want. If your using a lower drain cell like a 35E or Panasonic B or any type of protected cell and you want the turbo time to be longer because it’s not generating as much heat, then you can go in and adjust the settings.

I did a video on it.
.

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teacher
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JasonWW wrote:
alternety wrote:
That is just not acceptable.
Opinions vary on what is and isn’t acceptable.

No one is going to change a finished product. So your words are falling on deaf ears.

I’m surprised you haven’t sold the Q8’s and bought something different.

Amen to that!! If the light is not what someone wants… they should buy something that is. There are plenty of choices out there.

The description details the operation of the light very well. It should be obvious to anyone buying a Q8 exactly what they are getting.

The Q8 does what it was designed to do and does it well.
If someone does not like it, that is no problem; just don’t use or buy it.
BUT… quit trying to ride a dead horse.

This has got to the point it is comical. Big Smile

You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load./"Bear" Bryant 

 .................................. "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast" ...................................

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teacher
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Hot water, warm toes, or whatever aside ThrowMeInToDarkness….. well said.

Very well said in fact. Besides getting to the comical point, as far as I personally am concerned (sorry… I just can’t help seeing the humor in this….. Wink ); this situation has me somewhat baffled…. pretty much for the reason you just stated.

IF…. the light is not for someone, all they need do is not use or buy it & move on to a more suitable one. Wink

This is almost like buying a Porsch & then wanting to turn it into a VW.

You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load./"Bear" Bryant 

 .................................. "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast" ...................................

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raccoon city
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Alternety, really?

“Any random person needs to be able to use the Q8 without a manual.”

(No – this is a specialised light for a niche market, clear from the outset, if it is being sold OUTSIDE THE FORUM’S CONTROL as something else, that is not the fault of the forum)

If you want anyone to be able to use the light, turn it to a medium setting and then turn it off. The next time it is picked up one click goes to medium, one click to off – no problem.

“I (after considerable initial research) bought (ordered) these as emergency lighting.”

They are great for this, but apparently your considerable research did not identify that it had many modes and functions all accessed through the same button, but despite this, only a few seconds instruction about what not to do are required. Don’t hold the button down after it has stopped ramping, and if something does not seem right, unscrew the tail and reset. There- you’re done.

All of your frustration seems to stem from your own misunderstanding of the potential problem, and your stubborn insistence that it must be everyone’s problem and it must be someone else’s problem to sort it out to YOUR satisfaction.

Beam me up!

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Jumping Jesus!!!!!!! I can’t help but wonder what would happen if this was a topic of conversation on a gun forum. Passcode protected, modes for the uninformed, fire warnings, random citizens using it……………….Oh to heck with it, here’s a bat, get out of here.

"Everywhere I go, there I am"

djozz
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Zulumoose wrote:
Alternety, really?

“Any random person needs to be able to use the Q8 without a manual.”

(No – this is a specialised light for a niche market, clear from the outset, if it is being sold OUTSIDE THE FORUM’S CONTROL as something else, that is not the fault of the forum)


We have been struggling with that you know. We designed the Q8 for our own niche market but of course we knew that it would be sold outside BLF too. Although what Thorfire does with their own products after the group buy is their responsability, but we did insist that in the description on the seller’s page all the information and links were present to be able to judge the features and possible safety concerns
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Yes, this is rather funny. I get that the Q8 is fairly easy to get into a programming mode you didn’t intend, but it’s intended for flashaholics or a least people that RTFM. No newb should not buy or use a 4×18650 light, without understanding the dangers and proper methods of dealing with lithium-ion batteries and high-power lights. This is not a light you lend to a neighbor’s 5-year-old child.

And, yes, it’s ridiculous that someone thinks this light should be redesigned to make it idiot-proof. There are already hundreds of idiot-proof lights on the market. Buy one!

As for this light, if you’re uncomfortable with it, throw it away! You’re out $50, but that’s probably cheaper than burning down your house because you turned it on high and left it under a pile of newspapers because you thought all lights should be able to do that.

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The guy made an assumption – despite reading the material that should have cleared it up. He is now frustrated, and is venting that frustration by passing the buck. Most people can relate to some time when they have done that themselves, only to realise, sometimes much later, that they had lost all perspective and objectivity and were fixating. Happens to the best of us at times, I think it is best to remain civil and resist any urge to make things worse by adding ridicule or caricaturing the person involved. This may be a significant investment for him that has, in his eyes, been a failure. A month from now he will probably have taken a step back and re-evaluated.

Remember if he bought several of these lights plus batteries and chargers, he could easily be out of pocket $200-$400.

Beam me up!

Alexium
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WalkIntoTheLight wrote:
No newb should buy or use a 4×18650 light, without understanding the dangers and proper methods of dealing with lithium-ion batteries and high-power lights.

What dangers, could you briefly point them out? All I can think of is the fire hazard if the light is activated on full accidentally and left lying somewhere it shouldn’t be.
(Yes, I’m a newb who bought his first soda can light).

And a couple questions on batteries for Q8:
1. Why do you recommend protected batteries when the light already has built-in undervoltage protection?
2. Why do you recommend Samsung 30Q, the notorious high-current batteries? This flashlight does not seem to require high-current cells:
- The LEDs are rated as 10W. Say, you over-drive them to 15W. 15W / 3.7 V = 4.05 Amps. Divide by 80% driver efficiency (a pessimistic figure, hopefully), and you get just a bit over 5 Amps per LED. Four LEDs, four batteries. Any regular non-high-current (5 A) battery should suffice, as long as you’re running all four. Where am I wrong? Does each LED consume more than 4 A in turbo?

MTE C3-907 -> Convoy C8 -> Convoy S2+ -> BLF Q8 -> Sofirn SP36 -> Somebody please make me stop!

WalkIntoTheLight
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Alexium wrote:
WalkIntoTheLight wrote:
No newb should not buy or use a 4×18650 light, without understanding the dangers and proper methods of dealing with lithium-ion batteries and high-power lights.
What dangers, could you briefly point them out? All I can think of is the fire hazard if the light is activated on full accidentally and left lying somewhere it shouldn’t be.

Well, there’s all the inherent risks of using lithium-ion cells. Treat them properly, and you’re probably fine. But, treat them improperly, and there may be a safety risk. There are tons of threads on proper 18650 care, so you’re probably already aware.

There have also been reports of what happens if you accidentally insert one of the 18650 cells the wrong way into the Q8. It goes bang, and fries the springs. That’s if things go well…

And, as you note, this light can catch stuff on fire if you hold flammable things close to it on max. Or burn a hole in a bag that you’re carrying the light in and the switch is accidentally pressed.

Some of those are common issues with all high-power lights.

Quote:
And a couple questions on batteries for Q8: 1. Why do you recommend protected batteries when the light already has built-in undervoltage protection?

I don’t, but protected batteries will prevent shorts as mentioned above, so are better for safety.

Quote:
2. Why do you recommend Samsung 30Q, the notorious high-current batteries? This flashlight does not seem to require high-current cells: - The LEDs are rated as 10W. Say, you over-drive them to 15W. 15W / 3.7 V = 4.05 Amps. Divide by 80% driver efficiency (a pessimistic figure, hopefully), and you get just a bit over 5 Amps per LED. Four LEDs, four batteries. Any regular non-high-current (5 A) battery should suffice, as long as you’re running all four. Where am I wrong? Does each LED consume more than 4 A in turbo?

This light uses a direct-drive when on high. That means that the higher the voltage of the battery, the higher the output of the light. High-drain cells have less “voltage sag” when driven hard, than regular cells. So, a high-drain battery will give you higher output.

If this light used a boost-driver for regulated output, then lower-drain cells might be okay. But, that’s not how it was designed (probably because of cost).

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Thorfire did one single test with a full run on maximum.
As far I remember it run ca. 40 min till the temperature starts to fall.
Don’t know which batteries they used. I assume 3500mAh ones.

The light survived.
So the lamp should cope with the heat.

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@Alternety
If you don’t like the UI find one who reprogramm the light.
- set the time to enter setup to 30 sec (which is now 8sec) and it should work
- or remove setup completely
- or flash another firmware

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That 30 second idea sounds good. 8 seconds can be accidental by someone trying to see if it will go higher, they will have given up on that idea long before 30.

Beam me up!

joechina
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Alexium wrote:
WalkIntoTheLight wrote:
No newb should buy or use a 4×18650 light, without understanding the dangers and proper methods of dealing with lithium-ion batteries and high-power lights.

What dangers, could you briefly point them out? All I can think of is the fire hazard if the light is activated on full accidentally and left lying somewhere it shouldn’t be.
(Yes, I’m a newb who bought his first soda can light).

And a couple questions on batteries for Q8:
1. Why do you recommend protected batteries when the light already has built-in undervoltage protection?
2. Why do you recommend Samsung 30Q, the notorious high-current batteries? This flashlight does not seem to require high-current cells:
- The LEDs are rated as 10W. Say, you over-drive them to 15W. 15W / 3.7 V = 4.05 Amps. Divide by 80% driver efficiency (a pessimistic figure, hopefully), and you get just a bit over 5 Amps per LED. Four LEDs, four batteries. Any regular non-high-current (5 A) battery should suffice, as long as you’re running all four. Where am I wrong? Does each LED consume more than 4 A in turbo?

- protected are recommended for legalreasons. Remember there are settings you can switch the protection off.
- It’s a BLF Lamp. Of course it uses more amps. If you clean all connections it should suck 18 Amps. With bypassed springs nearly 20A.
(at turn on)

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Zulumoose wrote:

Remember if he bought several of these lights plus batteries and chargers, he could easily be out of pocket $200-$400.

I think he has 3.
Alexium wrote:

And a couple questions on batteries for Q8:
1. Why do you recommend protected batteries when the light already has built-in undervoltage protection?
2. Why do you recommend Samsung 30Q, the notorious high-current batteries? This flashlight does not seem to require high-current cells:
- The LEDs are rated as 10W. Say, you over-drive them to 15W. 15W / 3.7 V = 4.05 Amps. Divide by 80% driver efficiency (a pessimistic figure, hopefully), and you get just a bit over 5 Amps per LED. Four LEDs, four batteries. Any regular non-high-current (5 A) battery should suffice, as long as you’re running all four. Where am I wrong? Does each LED consume more than 4 A in turbo?

Protected cells usually have four or five different protection circuits. Over discharge protection is just one of those.

With a direct drive light the internal resistance of the batteries plays a major role in the output of the light, so does the forward voltage of the emitters, the chemical mix of the batteries, etc…

If you look at the 30Q and the Sanyo GA both batteries can easily output more than 5 amps, but if you put them in a Q8 you will get a higher amp draw (higher lumens) using the 30Q compared to the Sanyo GA (maybe 500 lumen or more). A protected Sanyo GA might loose 1,000 or more lumen to a 30Q. The protection circuitry typically adds a lot of internal resistance.

Look at this chart here.

The more you study direct-drive lights the more you’ll start to see how the battery directly influences the emitter.

You can’t even run the Cree xhp50.2 direct drive, even on little 18350 celks in series, because it will pull too much current and blow the emitter.

Texas Ace Lumen Tube and JoshK Sphere calibrated with Maukka lights

Click this to go to signature links. I'm still around, just not reading many new threads.

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